What is a good Monitor for 16:10 wide and regular 4:3 T61s?

[cadillacmike68]

I'm thinking of getting higher resolution (and widescreen) monitors for the T61s when they are in the advanced docks. Right now I have 4:3 monitors, and while good & sharp, they are older.

Can I use a widescreen monitor with a 4:3 T61 (type 8897 or 8898)?
Will the 8897 & 8898 (integrated Intel) graphics card kick out the proper 16:10 aspect ratio. Nothing would be more annoying than a 4:3 ratio on a 16:10 screen.

I'm thinking about the ThinkVision L2250p 22" widescreen LCD M2572HB6 or the almost identical L2240p 22" M4422HB6. I can get decent IBM EPP pricing on them. I can't seem to get lenovo.com to show the newer ones in the EPP.

These both have a max of 1680x1050 which matches my widescreen two T61s, and the vertical resolution matched the 8897s max.

We both have 1 widescreen T61 (WSXGA+) and one 4:3 T61 (hers is SXGA+, mine is only XGA).
My wife travels with her widescreen T61 and leaves the 8897 in the dock. I could travel with either one and leave the other one docked, But I'm leaning on traveling with the widescreen 6463 because it has a finer grained screen.

As always I welcome everyone's opinions. Thanks.

[dr_st]

Any monitor can be used. There is absolutely no requirement for any kind of match between internal and external monitors, in size, resolution or aspect ratio. And the integrated video will support any resolution probably up to 2560x1600 even (definitely up to 2048x1536).

[FryPpy]

There is absolutely no requirement for any kind of match between internal and external monitors, in size, resolution or aspect ratio

I can add more. When i modding and frankenpadding i have started WUXGA LCD from other thinkpad ontop of T61 4:3 mother board and vice versa i have started SXGA+ (4:3) LCD from my T60 on W500 motherboard.

Max. resolution for external monitors can be set by used interface - DSUB or DVI. But it is more then WSXGA+.

[cadillacmike68]

Would I be shooting myself in the foot by getting one of the above mentioned units with its max resolution of 1680x1050, when some newer Thinkpads (which I don't have & don't plan on getting) are coming with 1920x1080 internal screens?

I'm not usually one for getting something to work with something that I neither have nor plan to get anytime soon but...

I'd prefer to get something that at least matches the widescreens resolution so I don't have to constantly change the settings when I go from docked to undocked.

[twistero]

My X60T drives a 1920x1080 display just fine through UltraBase VGA. I see no reason why a T61 wouldn't do the same.

Also I dock and undock the X60T multiple times throughout the day, and never have to manually adjust anything. The most dramatic change you'll see is probably some desktop icons moving if the vertical resolution differs much.

[Medessec]

Would I be shooting myself in the foot by getting one of the above mentioned units with its max resolution of 1680x1050, when some newer Thinkpads (which I don't have & don't plan on getting) are coming with 1920x1080 internal screens?

Not particularly. The whole point of a desktop monitor is a good resolution, but at a low pixel density. Desktop monitors are also usually brighter and have better viewing angles for the money, but higher resolutions(especially different aspect ratios, like 3:2 and 16:10) are far more expensive.

The reason resolutions are so high with a laptop is because the manufacturer always assumes you're using the laptop right in front of you in your lap, or on a desk. It's also because some younger users(me) are able to take in the higher pixel densities comfortably, and can certainly use the screen estate. The screen on the laptop is also the only primary screen that the laptop will be stuck with all of it's life(if it's not modified), so I'm sure the manufacturer's mindset is to make sure it's not one the user wouldn't enjoy using.

To go back to your original inquiry though- I think it's mostly important to get a newer monitor that is LED backlit, and has a relatively high resolution with a huge screen size. Don't worry too much about getting one with a super-high resolution. My school uses these monitors in the 170-class lab, which is for graphics artists: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 24G1DZ0331

It's IPS, LED backlit and very bright. I've used these monitors very much and I don't mind them in the slightest. Of course, what is to consider is the 16:9 aspect ratio... but you need to consider that, YES, there are 16:10 aspect ratio monitors that are new, IPS, and LED backlit. But they are extremely expensive compared to what you get with this monitor. It's all up to what you want, versus how much you're willing to spend.

[cadillacmike68]

I think I have solved the equation:

Lenovo + Thinkvision + IPS = BIG $$$

[cadillacmike68]

Dang those IPS screens from Lenovo are expensive. I did find some however, with 5ms refresh times that were a little bit better priced, than that uber expensive one.

[dr_st]

Question: why must you buy an IPS screen from Lenovo only, when there are plenty other manufacturers offering cheaper IPS screens?

[pianowizard]

Question: why must you buy an IPS screen from Lenovo only, when there are plenty other manufacturers offering cheaper IPS screens?

This is the reason that the OP gave: "I can get decent IBM EPP pricing on them."

Employee pricing and other similar incentives that promote brand loyalty (e.g. airlines' frequent flyer programs) don't always save people money, because they prevent people from shopping around. cadillacmike68, you definitely shouldn't limit your search to the Lenovo EPP site. Lenovo isn't known for its monitors anyway, and there are countless other brands that offer better monitors at much lower price points.

[cadillacmike68]

Question: why must you buy an IPS screen from Lenovo only, when there are plenty other manufacturers offering cheaper IPS screens?

This is the reason that the OP gave: "I can get decent IBM EPP pricing on them."

Employee pricing and other similar incentives that promote brand loyalty (e.g. airlines' frequent flyer programs) don't always save people money, because they prevent people from shopping around. cadillacmike68, you definitely shouldn't limit your search to the Lenovo EPP site. Lenovo isn't known for its monitors anyway, and there are countless other brands that offer better monitors at much lower price points.

I do it primarily for the same reason that I don't use fram oil filters, champion spark plugs, wells point sets, purolator air cleaners, brand x fan relay, water pump or starter, etc., on my 1968 DVC. I try to keep my ThinkPads all IBM / Lenovo, if possible. My mice, keyboards & monitors have always been IBM so far.

I'll consider another monitor, If it's durable and not flimsy, but it certainly won't be a dell monitor.

I am going to keep looking, because those prices on Lenovo's web site are well, shocking!

[dr_st]

Do whatever you want, but know that you choices, at least in this segment, are anything but rational.

I'm not gonna talk about car parts, because I know nothing about them, but I do know enough about accessories and I can tell you that while I absolutely adore IBM/Lenovo keyboards, I haven't yet seen an IBM/Lenovo mouse that was worth having (they don't even have back/forward buttons for crying out loud), and most Lenovo monitors are either overpriced or junk, or both.

But, hey, at least they are not DELLs, right?

[jcvjcvjcvjcv]

If you have one w/o the nVidia... you're probably limited to 1920x1200. As said before: resolutions and aspect ratio's don't have to match anything.

My X60T drives a 1920x1080 display just fine through UltraBase VGA. I see no reason why a T61 wouldn't do the same.

Also I dock and undock the X60T multiple times throughout the day, and never have to manually adjust anything. The most dramatic change you'll see is probably some desktop icons moving if the vertical resolution differs much.

That is... until you get into rotating the external screens. My T61 (with nVidia) did fine with external screens on the dock.... but it would never remember I had one rotated 90 degrees...
I never managed to find a solution for that before I got a new mainboard from warranty for my desktop. The dock pretty much ended up in the closet after two months (or less?) use. The fan inside the dock annoyed me too.

[Medessec]

I do it primarily for the same reason that I don't use fram oil filters, champion spark plugs, wells point sets, purolator air cleaners, brand x fan relay, water pump or starter, etc., on my 1968 DVC.

Whether it's heartened faithfulness to a brand, respected loyalty, good experiences, or just brand pride that keeps you on Lenovo/IBM products, I won't kick your preference to the curb. Although I do have to agree with the guys- The ThinkVision monitors aren't as viciously premium as they're made out to be, and when compared to other monitors in feel, features and quality, there's really nothing in it.

Let's say you 100% wanted a Thinkvision monitor... from Lenovo's site, it looks like you don't have a very wide selection. I'd personally recommend that you get this one: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=3024HC1

It's not IPS, but it is still Full HD (1920x1080) high res, 23", and LED-backlit. Yes, it is still $250, but you do get your money's worth I think. You can look for the same monitor through other sources instead of Lenovo's site to see if you can get a better price.

There's also an IPS variant: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=3028LB2

$400? Yikes. If I was going to spend that much money on a monitor, I'd probably just wait for this:

http://www.cnet.com/products/lenovo-thi ... k-display/

Now THAT, I wouldn't mind having. I'd probably build an awesome desktop computer JUST to use it. $800... geez. Goodbye last two car payments.

[cadillacmike68]

While monitor resolutions and aspect ratios don't have to match, if you're not running at the monitor's Native resolution, you'll get an emulated screen font, which drives me nuts. I've had to deal with that too many times in the desert (with hundreds of dull easily scratched dell monitors, by the way ) and want decent match to the computer.

And, while the ThinkPad will be tucked away in a dock, the monitor will be what's staring me in the face every day. I'm not going to be looking at a dell label on a monitor for my ThinkPads.

@medesses: Yes, I saw both of those monitors. Yes Lenovos are a bit overpriced, but they are not junk (this is directed to dr_st). I am leaning towards the 23" TFT 2323P. While my wife has an open desk, myine has a divider which might limit me to a 22" screen. I'm going to look at a couple screens at the local best buy (which has some Lenovo monitors if you can believe that, but I don't think they are thinkvision ones). I need to see what the screens look like when not in their native resolution, angle of view, and overall durability.

Last two car payments - you don't want to know what these STS Platinum NorthStar payments are...

[dr_st]

Let's say you 100% wanted a Thinkvision monitor... from Lenovo's site, it looks like you don't have a very wide selection. I'd personally recommend that you get this one: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... de=3024HC1

It's not IPS, but it is still Full HD (1920x1080) high res, 23", and LED-backlit. Yes, it is still $250, but you do get your money's worth I think. You can look for the same monitor through other sources instead of Lenovo's site to see if you can get a better price.

It's probably not a bad deal given the Lenovo monitor prices, and perhaps cadillacmike68 can get an even better deal due to EPP. However, overall $250 for a TN monitor does not seem like a good deal to me, when there are plenty IPS/PLS/VA ones with the same parameters, and cheaper.

LED? Well, all of them are LED these days, so it's not like you have a choice even, and to be honest I prefer fluorescent backlights on large desktop LCDs. They tend to give more even lighting and less backlight bleed. Of course they do lose brightness with age and are likely to live less overall, but I have CCFL monitors that are almost 7 years this year and still going strong with no issues...

While monitor resolutions and aspect ratios don't have to match, if you're not running at the monitor's Native resolution, you'll get an emulated screen font, which drives me nuts.

You are 100% right, of course, but what's the connection? No one said anything about running non-native resolutions. To the contrary - what was said is that when you are using two monitors in extended desktop mode - you can run different resolutions on each, precisely so that each monitor will be running its native res... And if you are running them in "clone" mode, then - why?

And, while the ThinkPad will be tucked away in a dock, the monitor will be what's staring me in the face every day. I'm not going to be looking at a dell label on a monitor for my ThinkPads.

DELL happens to make some very nice monitors, that are not worse than any offerings from IBM/Lenovo, and are more competitively priced. Their service on these monitors is also comparable, if not better than I would expect from Lenovo. Of course if you just happen to dislike the DELL brand, or you have very strong brand loyalty (to a Chinese company that couldn't care less about you), or just a very developed sense of aesthetics, and you cannot bear to look at anything other than the "Think" brand, I understand (sorta), and it's great that you can / are willing to pay 50% premiums (at least) for this privilege.

Yes, I saw both of those monitors. Yes Lenovos are a bit overpriced, but they are not junk (this is directed to dr_st). I am leaning towards the 23" TFT 2323P.

If you read my statement carefully - I didn't say they were all junk. I did say some of them were junk, and some of them are overpriced (to be honest I think they are all, or al almost all overpriced). As for "junk" - it depends on the definition. To me, these days, with the abundance of cheap, good quality monitors using good panel technologies (the aforementioned IPS/PLS/VA) - any monitor that uses a TN panel is by definition "junk" (unless it has some specific advanced features targeted at a particular niche). As such, the 2323P is "junk" to me, and just like you wouldn't dream of looking a DELL label on your monitor all day, I would not agree to be starting at a mediocre TN screen all day, but that's just me, and we all have different preferences. Certainly I do not suggest that the Lenovo monitors are flimsy, or not reliable or more prone to failures.

[FryPpy]

I do it primarily for the same reason that I don't use fram oil filters, champion spark plugs, wells point sets, purolator air cleaners, brand x fan relay, water pump or starter, etc., on my 1968 DVC.

Your '68 DVC is a REAL OLDTIMER. And the rule is that oldtimer must be oldtimer in all things.
Your T61 is a workhorses (or workhouse ; ). This is utility thing that made best to help you with your work.
So choose things that can help you and enjoy you but not that lenovo said to you...

I have some Philipses at home (TV and old LCD on desktop, which is not used anymore). But philips of now days is not the same that old philips. At work we have many NECs - and i think they are very adequate to thinkpad. Black and brick design very similar to thinkpad's design lines. But it cost not less than Lenovo ones;) One day i have discovered some ASUS IPS monitors have apeared at work.... They're IPS and not so bad, but they ASUS;)

I try to keep my ThinkPads all IBM / Lenovo, if possible. My mice, keyboards & monitors have always been IBM so far.

Lenovo is not IBM:(
I am not lenovo fan at all. All my thinkpads have been rebranded to to IBM (palmrest and monitor stickers). I have lenovo (not chicklet) compact keyboard, but only because track point. I hate lenovo mice (800 dpi scrollpoint pro) 41U3021. It was a present, but it is not comfortable for me. But it have many buttons and things;)


And some automative offtop:
I don't know about american car makers. But european ones don't do all items for cars. They rebrand parts made by other companies. And this rebranding price not always adequate. For example [censored] make optics for many car makers. Headlamp in the yellow [censored]'s box is THE SAME as the Audi's for example. There are lists showing which company have supplying parts on the conveyor. And it is more adequate to buy from "the first hands".

PS
H_E_L_L_A - is not expletives in this context;)

[pianowizard]

I'll consider another monitor, If it's durable and not flimsy, but it certainly won't be a dell monitor.

Dell monitors have much, much, much, much better reputation than Lenovo monitors. Every single Dell monitor that I currently own (see my signature) is less flimsy than my four Lenovo L220X monitors. These Lenovos are ugly, feel and look cheap, and the stands of two of them have cracks. If I still had Thinkpads, the Dells would be a better match with them in terms of both looks and quality. You may have seen some Dell monitors at Best Buy that didn't appeal to you, but they are not good examples of Dell monitors. The best Dell monitors are the UltraSharp series, which you can't find at Best Buy or any other local store. I have used dozens of them and none of them disappointed.

But of course, we are just giving you advice, and the final decision is yours -- you have the right to waste your money however you want.

[RealBlackStuff]

For test purposes I still have some NEC MultiSync LCD1525V monitors that date back from 1999!
That's 15 years, and they are still as good as when they were new!
My wife uses one daily with her desktop, and doesn't want anything bigger/newer/wider (she also got a 15.6" Lenovo G560).
NEC specs see here: http://www.ampronix.com/content/web/nec ... _specs.asp

[cadillacmike68]

For test purposes I still have some NEC MultiSync LCD1525V monitors that date back from 1999!
That's 15 years, and they are still as good as when they were new!
My wife uses one daily with her desktop, and doesn't want anything bigger/newer/wider (she also got a 15.6" Lenovo G560).
NEC specs see here: http://www.ampronix.com/content/web/nec ... _specs.asp

Well, I guess, I can admit that I am using an IBM G74 on this T30. Go ahead and laugh. It's still super sharp, no fading or flickering, etc. Yeah it's heavy, but it never moves. The ThinkPad is in a dock to the right of it. There's something about a quality Tube monitor...

As to the newer technologies, I know what IS is, but don't know what PLS or VA is. I also thought that a primary benefit of IPS over TFT is the faster refresh. If so that someone posted a link up earlier to a Dell IPs monitor that has a 7ms refresh, while the non-IPS Lenovo ones I'm looking at have 5ms refresh times...

[dr_st]

I also thought that a primary benefit of IPS over TFT is the faster refresh.

Absolutely not. The primary difference is color/contrast stability across viewing angles, and in some cases color depth (but even if not, colors just look nicer). The response time (which you call refresh) is a meaningless parameter in modern LCDs anyways.

Here's a good source on LCDs panel technologies:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/pa ... logies.htm

It's a long read, so skimming the sections and then reading the summary table for each technology type is a good approach.

[TTY]

I'm thinking of getting higher resolution (and widescreen) monitors for the T61s when they are in the advanced docks.

If you don't like Dell, i would suggest you take a look at NEC.

http://www.necdisplay.com/category/desktop-monitors

VA means vertical alignment. From what i understand, it's a high quality technology, comparable to IPS. I would avoid TN because of narrow viewing angles. Also get a matt screen.

Another reputable brand is EIZO, but i believe they are pretty expensive in the U.S.

[pianowizard]

I also thought that a primary benefit of IPS over TFT is the faster refresh.

Actually, IPS panels tend to have longer response times than TN panels. No one buys IPS monitors for their response times.

If you don't like Dell

I don't think he dislikes Dell monitors per se. He just dislikes the "Dell" logo, associating it with the bad reputation that Dell laptops have.

i would suggest you take a look at NEC...Another reputable brand is EIZO

Dell, HP, Eizo, NEC, ViewSonic, Asus, LG, Samsung, etc. are all better yet usually cheaper than Lenovo. Acer may be the only brand that's worse than Lenovo, though some Acer monitors are temptingly affordable.

[cadillacmike68]

I found a decent LG 23" IPS (23EA63V-P) , but apparently it's sold out.

[Medessec]

That monitor looks quite nice too... guess everyone beat you to it. Disappointing...

Also with monitors, the big thing I see now is that there are a lot of off-brand TVs and monitors for cheap that actually have decent picture, but horrible response times. My roommate's friend has a very nice-looking HDTV made by a brand "Element", which has a nearly one-second lag when playing video games through HDMI. We constantly fight between gaming on that, and my cruddy EMP-X5 Epson projector(which I got from eWaste) which has instant-response in comparison, but poor quality and brightness with the PS3 we play on.

I think these knock-off displays source the same panels as other displays, but use different(cheaper) chips to align or display the picture on the panel, resulting in the poor-response time with higher-definition signals. I'm not sure if that's how TVs work, someone may have to catch that if they know for sure.

I'm also not sure if this dilemma will affect your hunt for a good monitor, but since you're pretty set on name-brands, you'll likely be fine.

[dr_st]

A simple search for LG IPS 23" yields over 30 results, 7 of which are $200 or less. I find it difficult to believe they are all sold out.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... isNodeId=1

[cadillacmike68]

A simple search for LG IPS 23" yields over 30 results, 7 of which are $200 or less. I find it difficult to believe they are all sold out.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... isNodeId=1

Those aren't the same LG that I referenced. It's like comparing apples to turnips.

[Medessec]

I think that dr_st was just saying there were other models to still choose from, and they are remarkably similar, the biggest difference between the one you wanted and the ones he found was the insanely high contrast ratio... (10,000,000:1) but the ones dr_st found are still pretty good(5,000,000:1) and are similar in almost every aspect, with some being bigger and having a swivel feature unlike the one you pointed out.

I think the contrast ratio is going to be nice regardless, as long as the monitor you get is IPS and LED backlit, the luminance added with the color reproduction will make your monitor very comfortable to use anyway, so you shouldn't have to fret too much over contrast ratio. I understand you want the perfect monitor for your budget, and that's not a bad way to go, but the longer you wait... the longer you won't have a monitor obviously.

[dr_st]

The contrast ratio manufacturers publish is a bogus number anyway, with absolutely no connection to reality, and thus no meaning whatsoever.

[cadillacmike68]

I agree with dr-st on the contrast ratio game. It's just another marketing gimmick. It makes comparing different brands almost impossible.

BTW, I'm not without a monitor, I have my G74s here which are quire sharp, have very good viewing angles and excellent color reproduction. They are also heavy.