Thinkpads Forum

They are also heavy.

You'll love having an LCD in this regard... CRTs are nice, but with all the above mentioned pros and cons, you can see why the industry has moved on.

Another advantage I think you guys have skipped over is the power consumption- CRTs consume a boat-load of electricity compared side by side to a typical TFT LCD monitor... which only sips a trickle of electricity.

Medessec wrote:Another advantage I think you guys have skipped over is the power consumption- CRTs consume a boat-load of electricity compared side by side to a typical TFT LCD monitor... which only sips a trickle of electricity.

A CRT monitor consumes about 3 to 4 times the electricity of a similarly sized LCD monitor.

Another thing we haven't discussed is whether the OP can get a higher-than-FHD monitor. If his T61 dock has a dual-link DVI output, I would look into getting the HP Promo ZR2740w 27" LED IPS monitor with 2560x1440. This guy is selling a bunch of them on eBay for $300 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Promo-ZR2740 ... 461f9424cf

These are actually new but the boxes are dented, which is why they are so cheap. I have a ZR2740w and think it's a super bargain.

Another thing we haven't discussed is whether the OP can get a higher-than-FHD monitor.

Well, I figured the OP wanted something on a budget, but $300 for something that goes that high in res is pretty good! It's 27" too, which is pretty big... and it's HP. I've had a couple of HP monitors that I've liked.

pianowizard wrote:

Medessec wrote:Another advantage I think you guys have skipped over is the power consumption- CRTs consume a boat-load of electricity compared side by side to a typical TFT LCD monitor... which only sips a trickle of electricity.

A CRT monitor consumes about 3 to 4 times the electricity of a similarly sized LCD monitor.
[...]

That wasn't the case when CRTs got off the shelves. At that point, it was often not even two times as much, leaving TN panels out of the comparison. (Because they are really junk)

Medessec wrote:

They are also heavy.

You'll love having an LCD in this regard... CRTs are nice, but with all the above mentioned pros and cons, you can see why the industry has moved on.

Another advantage I think you guys have skipped over is the power consumption- CRTs consume a boat-load of electricity compared side by side to a typical TFT LCD monitor... which only sips a trickle of electricity.

I was also thinking of the electricity cost savings. As far as being heavy - they never move, so I don't care. the energy savings however would be a big plus.

pianowizard wrote:A CRT monitor consumes about 3 to 4 times the electricity of a similarly sized LCD monitor.

Another thing we haven't discussed is whether the OP can get a higher-than-FHD monitor. If his T61 dock has a dual-link DVI output, I would look into getting the HP Promo ZR2740w 27" LED IPS monitor with 2560x1440. This guy is selling a bunch of them on eBay for $300 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Promo-ZR2740 ... 461f9424cf

These are actually new but the boxes are dented, which is why they are so cheap. I have a ZR2740w and think it's a super bargain.

I'm size limited in my desk area to a 23" or 24" 16:9 or 16:10 size. My wife can fit a larger screen, but I don't think she needs it. I don't think the Advanced Dock has DVI. I only saw VGA and HDMI outputs, but I might have missed the DVI. FHD (or WSXGA+) would be all that we need for resolution.

That HP looks nice but i think its overkill. I leaning towards LG 23" or 24". I wrote down my measurements to check out the actual monitors at the stores.

cadillacmike68 wrote:I don't think the Advanced Dock has DVI. I only saw VGA and HDMI outputs, but I might have missed the DVI.

The dock has VGA and DVI. No HDMI.

dr_st wrote:

cadillacmike68 wrote:I don't think the Advanced Dock has DVI. I only saw VGA and HDMI outputs, but I might have missed the DVI.

The dock has VGA and DVI. No HDMI.

I had those two acronyms mixed up

I settled on the LG 24MP56HQ-P. It will barely fit on my desk but fits easily on my wife's. Of course it had HDMI but not DVI. I ordered a couple of DVI to HDMI cables. In the meantime the VGA cables appear to be working fine.

The thing is extremely light - not very substantial at all. The power supply is a separate brick, like laptops, but the plug is part of the brisk, and the cable is too short for my liking. The power supply itself appears more flimsy than the monitor. At least they won't be getting moved around any. The stand tilts but does not swivel. With its whopping 2 or 3 lbs weight, I don't think that is of any concern to me.

The screen looks good. The T61s that I have (all Integrated graphics) appear to max out at 1920-1080, which is the monitor's native resolution, so that's good.

The boss lady likes it, and it was a quick, easy setup. Plus it was on sale at the yellow tag store for $40 off the retail price. That's good enough for me.

I wish I had thought of this earlier, though you probably wouldn't have bought it anyway since it has the "Dell" badge: http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-2 ... 92115011_3

It's the best-selling IPS monitor on Amazon. Better than your LG 24MP56HQ-P in so many ways: higher resolution, larger surface area, uses a regular power cord, takes direct DVI input, can swivel and rotate, has USB ports, better construction, etc. etc. Even the price isn't much higher than the LG. Rotating the monitor into portrait orientation isn't as silly as it may seem. I rotate many of my monitors into portrait mode, not only to save a lot of desk space but also to enable me to read many more lines of text in a document or on a web page.

Regardless of whether you are interested in this Dell, it's obvious that you aren't 100% happy with your LG. You can probably return it for a full refund within 30 days.

pianowizard wrote:I wish I had thought of this earlier, though you probably wouldn't have bought it anyway since it has the "Dell" badge: http://www.amazon.com/Dell-UltraSharp-2 ... 92115011_3

It's the best-selling IPS monitor on Amazon. Better than your LG 24MP56HQ-P in so many ways: higher resolution, larger surface area, uses a regular power cord, takes direct DVI input, can swivel and rotate, has USB ports, better construction, etc. etc. Even the price isn't much higher than the LG. Rotating the monitor into portrait orientation isn't as silly as it may seem. I rotate many of my monitors into portrait mode, not only to save a lot of desk space but also to enable me to read many more lines of text in a document or on a web page.

Regardless of whether you are interested in this Dell, it's obvious that you aren't 100% happy with your LG. You can probably return it for a full refund within 30 days.

They are both 24" monitors. Maybe the dell is 23.9 or 24.0 while the LG is 23.8, but that's too small of a difference to matter to me, so it's not really a larger surface area. If it was, it probably won't fit in my desk area.

As to the resolution, that would be a small plus, but, I don't think it is, because they are both 24" screens. At best it would be the same # of resolution lines per inch, and I already had to up the text size on the LG for me.

A traditional power setup would be better, but as I noted, these won't move.

USB ports - there are 5 on the dock and 3 on the T61. I don't have that many different types of USB devices.

As to construction quality, we will see.

The cable type is a non-issue if the DVI-HDMI cables work as advertised, and they should.

The only things I don't like are the lack of overall substance of the monitor and the power supply arrangement. I doubt that the dell would be better built. Everything else seems to be fine, and they were nearly $60 less each than the dell (I bought 2).

cadillacmike68 wrote:They are both 24" monitors. Maybe the dell is 23.9 or 24.0 while the LG is 23.6, but that's too small of a difference to matter to me, so it's not really a larger surface area. If it was, it probably won't fit in my desk area.

The Dell is 16:10 whereas the LG is 16:9, meaning the Dell is taller than the LG and that's the main reason it has a larger surface area, 259 sq. inches versus 242 sq. inches. These two monitors have the same width, meaning if the LG fits your desk, the Dell also would.

cadillacmike68 wrote:As to the resolution, that would be a small plus, but, I don't think it is, because they are both 24" screens. At best it would be the same # of resolution lines per inch, and I already had to up the text size on the LG for me.

You got this right. The Dell is 94.34 pixels per inch; the LG is 92.56.

cadillacmike68 wrote:The cable type is a non-issue if the DVI-HDMI cables work as advertised, and they should.

But that's an additional expense required for the LG monitor but not for the Dell. The Dell should come with a DVI cable.

cadillacmike68 wrote:they were nearly $60 less each than the dell (I bought 2).

The difference is smaller than that. You probably paid sales tax for the LG. Getting the Dell from Amazon is tax-free -- it clearly states "Sold by vernal.tech (no tax anywhere)". Shipping is also free, so you would have saved gas as well.

I don't like to make people regret their purchases, but this is different because you can still do something about it -- Best Buy accepts returns within 30 days. Had you said you were very happy with this purchase, I would have said nothing.

I have four predecessors of this particular Dell monitor, and am 100% happy with all four. This series of 24" 1920x1200 premium monitors is by far Dell's most successful monitor series, and it has been for a decade. I don't have LG monitors but do have one 32" LG 1080p HDTV, and it has issues that I dislike.

Well, it sounds like he's pretty set on his purchase, but I will side with pianowizard that the OP should keep his options open, in case there's something he ends up really not liking about the monitor.

Be sure to keep up updated about your experiences with it- we'll be glad to help you some more on finding a different monitor if you end up returning it or changing your mind.

Other than that- good luck with it, hope you enjoy it.

I have 14 days return, and the store is either right next to my class building or a few miles from home, so I can and will return them if I find something that I really don't like about them.

@pianowizard:
I will actually look at that Dell. I'd like to see it in person to get a feel for it's screen appearance, etc. and to measure it, i.e. actual viewable screen measurements and height with stand. Remember I have an absolute max height restriction of 17.75" including the stand.

As for resolution, the LG vertical resolution is 91.91 lines per inch. The Dell's 94.34 Will result in smaller text. Not an issue for my wife, but it is for me. Please note that my IBM G74s even though ther are only 1024x768 have a nice viewable 80.81 horizontal lines per inch, thus making it easy on the eyes, but with a smaller view screen. That is a prime consideration for me.

I was able to find the specs on the dell. first, it's too tall at over 20" high. That larger bezel and stand height must have a lot to do with this. Second, the actual viewable screen width is less than the LG. The LG is 20.75W x 11.75H with the above noted 91.91 LPI. The dell is only 20.3W x a taller 12.7H, but that 12.7 crams in 1200 lines for the 94.49 LPI. I'm liking the LG better in this regard. The LG total Viewable area is 243.81 in sq. The Dell is 257.81, so it gives a larger total area, but again, LPI is smaller making the text smaller on the dell. Yeah it's not much, but with my eyesight, I need all the help I can get.

The Dell specs say it uses 38W, vs 20W for the LG. That was a shocker. On the other hand, the dell has a 3 yr warranty (at least on the screen), vs 1 yr for the LG. That dell has pretty impressive specs, but the height issue kind of prevents me from using it. It add 6 inches, while the LG only adds 4" (to a monitor that is also 1.2" shorter).

Yes, I paid approx $14 in taxes per monitor plus $8 for each cable. That stll leaves over $35 difference per monitor.

@all:

I like the idea of a 16:10 screen though, so I'll spend the next 2 weeks looking for one, or two.

I'll keep posting here, especially after my wife has had a few days with it. She was really impressed when i installed it last night. I also like the way it looks.

Them, not it, I bought two of them.

Question:

Will the intel graphics T61 support 1920 x 1200 resolution? If not a 16:10 monitor with that resolution cannot be of use to me.

http://downloads.dell.com/Manuals/all-p ... _en-us.pdf

The link above is a dimensional drawing of the Dell U2412M. It appears that with the display at its down position the total unit height is 15.69 inches which should fit your workstation.

BillP wrote:http://downloads.dell.com/Manuals/all-p ... _en-us.pdf

The link above is a dimensional drawing of the Dell U2412M. It appears that with the display at its down position the total unit height is 15.69 inches which should fit your workstation.

It sure looks like it will. I also spent some time on a Dell chat where the rep provided me a review site that also stated that you can get it down to 16" tall. so it looks like it Will fit!

Here's that link: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm

I have only to confirm that these Intel based T61s will support the 1920x1200 resolution and I'll get one to check out. If I like it, I'll get another and return both LGs.

Here's a kicker; the panel used is an LG panel, so this dell is really an LG with dell trappings. The adjustable stands are what makes this most useful. Who would have thought - me getting a Dell monitor.....

Can someone conform the T61s will output 1920x1200? The Lenovo PSref books doesn't specify a max resolution.

edit:

I might have found it. According to this site: http://www.taiwanpcsources.com/intelgraphics.htm
the Intel X3100 can go up to 2048x1536, so I should be good to go. I'm going to order one.

That's on analog. On DVI it will probably end at 1920x1200

Well, I ordered one. From amazon, the link that pianowizard provided. Bestbuy has this same monitor for a whopping $399. Even Dell has it at $369 on its web site.

Ok Pianowizard:

You will be held in the highest esteem if this turns out to be half as good as you say it is.

On the other hand, you will be instantly elevated to the permanent top of my Special High Intensity Training (or S:H:I:T:) list if I encounter yellow screen tint, baclkight bleeding, dead pixels, or any of the other horror stories that I read in the reviews of both the monitor and the vernal.tech amazon partner.

I should get it on Tuesday. Until then the LGs are still looking good.

Wouldn't you know it, Dell is having a 25% off sale on Monday:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2455048,00.asp

But even with this discount it would be $277, $11 more than the price from amazon. Tiger Direct has it for $279. Still not as low as amazon's price, or even the one day Dell price (on Monday)...

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:That's on analog. On DVI it will probably end at 1920x1200

That would be fine.

cadillacmike68 wrote:On the other hand, you will be instantly elevated to the permanent top of my Special High Intensity Training (or S:H:I:T:) list if I encounter yellow screen tint, baclkight bleeding, dead pixels, or any of the other horror stories that I read in the reviews of both the monitor and the vernal.tech amazon partner.

Weird tints can be largely overcome by adjusting color balance, both on the monitor itself and through the video driver's "advanced properties". Backlight bleed is fairly common, but is usually noticeable only in a very dark environment, and is an issue mainly for extremely picky people (but I have to say you do seem quite picky!). Dead pixels are covered by most manufacturers' warranties, although all manufacturers have a minimum limit, i.e. if you just have one or two dead pixels, then you are out of luck. But in general, don't worry so much about "horror stories" that you see on the internet. Most consumers don't say anything unless they have problems. Also, many people don't understand the saying "you get what you pay for". They would buy a very competitively priced product, say a $266 24" IPS 1920x1200 LCD monitor, but expect it to be as nice as a $600 monitor that has all the features one could imagine, is made of premium material, and has gone through extensive quality check.

BTW, the 3-year warranty is a huge bonus, and in my experience, Dell's warranty service and customer service in general are far superior to Lenovo's. For example, my U2711 monitor, which I bought second-hand on eBay, had a major issue shortly after I received it, and Dell replaced it for free, including free shipping.

cadillacmike68 wrote:But even with this discount it would be $277, $11 more than the price from amazon.

And don't forget, Dell.com charges sales tax.

Post incorporated in the post below - can be deleted (I don't know how)

pianowizard wrote: Also, many people don't understand the saying "you get what you pay for". They would buy a very competitively priced product, say a $266 24" IPS 1920x1200 LCD monitor, but expect it to be as nice as a $600 monitor that has all the features one could imagine, is made of premium material, and has gone through extensive quality check.

You mean to say it doesn't have a solid gold bezel case?, and that it wasn't personally inspected by Michael himself??

pianowizard wrote:BTW, the 3-year warranty is a huge bonus, and in my experience, Dell's warranty service and customer service in general are far superior to Lenovo's. For example, my U2711 monitor, which I bought second-hand on eBay, had a major issue shortly after I received it, and Dell replaced it for free, including free shipping.

I also read about how Dell doesn't want to provide warranty service for any monitor under 25" That online drivel was a bit hard to sort out. It might have been someone with a serious hair across their u-kno-what.

cadillacmike68 wrote:I also read about how Dell doesn't want to provide warranty service for any monitor under 25"

I suspect price is a more important factor than size. The UltraSharp monitors, including the one you just ordered, are among Dell's flagship products. In fact, they may be Dell's only products that are universally acclaimed. I bet it is mainly the E and S series monitors that Dell tries to avoid servicing.

Frankly, I think Dell's PC division should focus on just the UltraSharp monitors, the business-class desktops and Precision laptops, and get rid of everything else.

Well the first one got here. The box looks ok, only one small corner chewed up just a little, not enough to hurt anything inside.

Everything was in it, the monitor was made in March 2014, revision A01 of model U2412Mb. I hooked it up with the VGA to compare it with the LG. I have it on the Adv dock, so I'll switch to the DVI tonight. I'll put it on her T61 with the DVI and let her have at it.

It fits nicely in my confined desk area, with 1/2 to 3/4 inch to spare on the sides and from 0 to 2 inches top clearance. The monitor specs stating 20 to 24 inches vertical height are with the monitor pivoted to vertical orientation! That's why there was confusion with the Dell reps who I chatted with.

It's twice the weight of the LG, but that's not an issue only 10-12 lbs or so with the stand, which is much more robust than the LG stand. It uncouples easier, swivels and has height adjustment. Power cord is a normal one, much to my liking. The monitor itself is an inch or two thicker, but that's because of the cable connections an internal power supply. Again, no issue. The actual monitor itself is the same width and about 1.5 inches taller. It has a wider bezel, so the LG has a slightly larger viewable screen width, but those extra vertical resolution lines and size will come in handy to both of us.

There is "Display Port". Yippee

Cons:
No HDMI, but since I don't have HDMI on my docks, and don't plan on using these to output to a TV, who cares. I will have to pay to return those two Amazon DVI 2 HDMI cables though. That will cost a whopping $4 postage.

USB connections are not well documented. I know one port in the back is the uplink, but there are two ports in the back - which one is the one that goes back to the computer??? Edit: I found it. It's the square port - [censored] thing looked like an RJ45 to me in the dark.

So far, so good. If this one holds up well this week, and If my wife likes it, I'll get another and return the two LGs. I figure if there is a problem it will surface in the first week or so.

So far, every advantage on these two goes to the dell. I am going to have to relent on my "preference" against them - at least in monitors.

Pianowizard: You are not off the hook yet!

cadillacmike68 wrote:And, which of those back ports is the uplink to the computer USB???

The square port (USB type B) is the uplink, the 4 standard USB ports (type A) are the downlinks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connectors_types (look at the picture there)

dr_st wrote:

cadillacmike68 wrote:And, which of those back ports is the uplink to the computer USB???

The square port (USB type B) is the uplink, the 4 standard USB ports (type A) are the downlinks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Connectors_types (look at the picture there)

Thanks, I found it by searching the online manual. That looked like an RJ45 to me in the dim light. I couldn't think of why they would put an RJ45 on a monitor...

It's on my wife's 8897 now. Somehow that machine was set to half speed. I corrected that. I hope she notices the speed difference.

cadillacmike68 wrote:There is "Display Port". Yippee No HDMI.

Professional/business-class products tend to use DisplayPort, whereas consumer products almost always use HDMI. The Dell UltraSharp monitors are certainly geared toward professional users. Furthermore, DisplayPort output is guaranteed to support at least 2560x1600, whereas many devices' HDMI output goes up to only 1920x1080, which may be an additional reason why your 1920x1200 monitor only has a DisplayPort input -- to make sure people won't try to drive it via HDMI and get disappointed. This is also the reason why I generally prefer having a video card with DisplayPort rather than HDMI. Most of my Dell and HP business-class desktops have DisplayPort, and thus can drive my 2560x1600 and 2560x1440 monitors.

cadillacmike68 wrote:I will have to pay to return those two Amazon DVI 2 HDMI cables though. That will cost a whopping $4 postage.

In the future, check eBay first. You can get a DVI-to-HDMI adapter there for barely over $1 shipped.

cadillacmike68 wrote:I am going to have to relent on my "preference" against them - at least in monitors.

What was the basis for your prejudice against Dell?

Pianowizard;

I'm ok with the DVI, I don't see either of us driving the monitor to any higher than 1920x1200. The text would be too small.

I ordered cables from amazon because at the time I had not seen your message on the U2412M, and wanted to get some decent cables quick. Ebay is sometimes hit or miss (a lot of miss recently). I'm ok with returning the adapters, they would have no use for us, unless we were to get a TV with an HDMI input, but I don't see either of use outputting from the computer to a TV. I don't mind the return cost.

That's a long story, and it's not a prejudice, but is based on years of experience.

Boss lady has it to play with for the next few days. If she likes it, I'll get another.

I'm actually using the old IBM G74 power cords!

Well, I ordered a 2nd U2412M yesterday, returned the LGs this afternoon. The boss lady is using the new dell. She hasn't really commented on it, but it's not much different than the LG in appearance, but she did notice the extra vertical resolution. Since she really liked the LG over the old IBM G74, I can see why she is not overly impressed with the difference between the LG and the dell. She does like how that power nap program can shut off the monitor when the screen saver kicks in, so that's a plus.

I get mine tomorrow, and will use it for my w7 installs. I also need to return those two cables to amazon.

Pretty cool- well, going from 16:9 to 16:10 isn't really significant, but going from 16:10 to 16:9 is a bit harder. It's like getting two different luxury packages of the same model car- if you have a nicer one and you sell it for another one with less features, you'll notice the features that are gone.

But hopefully you guys enjoy the monitor. 1920x1200 is a very good resolution too.

Medessec wrote:Pretty cool- well, going from 16:9 to 16:10 isn't really significant...
But hopefully you guys enjoy the monitor. 1920x1200 is a very good resolution too.

It's not that she doesn't like the dell 24: 16:10. It just that we went from a 17" 4:3 1024x768 to a 24" 16:9 1920x1080 first. That was a big jump. The switch, after only 1 week, to a 24" 16:10 1920x1200 was not much of a step up when compared to the change last week.

The stand on the U2412M is much better than that on the LG. It detaches easily, and had vertical, tilt and swivel adjustments.

Medessec wrote:... but going from 16:10 to 16:9 is a bit harder. It's like getting two different luxury packages of the same model car- if you have a nicer one and you sell it for another one with less features, you'll notice the features that are gone.

Tell me about it. We traded a 2008 CTS full optioned car for the same trim level 2011 model year a couple years ago.

GM deleted several niceties over the intervening years, including the standard in 2008, but missing in 2011 locking rear differential! They removed some interior lights, took away the adjustable visor mirror lights (the lights are still there but you can't adjust the brightness) and several other small deletions like this.

It probably cost them more to out-engineer the changes than to just leave them in.

Cadillac is very quickly becoming an also-ran type of car, in my eyes definitely not the flagship any longer that it once was...
The problem with US car makers is, that they do not (and never did since WW II) know how to design an attractive looking car.
The only exception may be the Ford Fusion, whose front-look they apparently stole from Aston Martin.

^^ a little envious are we??

OK the monitors.

The second arrived last week, in an overpack box. The inside box was not adequately isolated, but nothing was broken. It is also a U2412Mb rev A01. It installed fine. Both monitors came with DVI cables that are missing the 6 middle pins. It's probably because the monitors are max 1920x1200 which is the max for a single layer DVI cable. I guess dell didn't want to spend for the extra pins. I think I have bigger DVI cables with all the pins - somewhere.

No issues with either screen. So far all is quite good.