[GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#31 Post by jiejie » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:00 pm

@ajkula66, so noted and thanks. I'll continue to contemplate which Windows to install but first things first. Back to the fan/heatsink replacement, without which all else is moot.

Still a couple of worrisome issues about the T500 part: 1) Aurora's notes at the end of the installation description which imply a bit of a wrestle to get the "alien" sink properly seated on the chips and the pipes bent to fit into the T60(p) compartment. Along with the original bracket not fitting the new sink. I guess I'm just looking for any other comments about how tricky and problematic this is, compared to just defaulting to an official replacement standard, which I'm quite confident I could manage. 2) Assuming the T500 is installed correctly, is the "Fan Error" message and non-booting likely to be instantly resolved, or will the machine sense an alien fan presence and refuse to cooperate, meaning there is some additional step (BIOS-related or other) that I'm missing?

If I decided to wimp out of the T500 and just resign myself to installing a new T60/p or T61/p FRU and monitoring/controlling heat the best I can, which would any of you recommend? After reading other threads/comments about installing the T61/p fan/sink, there doesn't appear to be an conclusion that in the long-term, it was any better than the lackluster T60p.

Is there a general consensus that this is a part best purchased new/OEM or refurbished OEM or "compatible" by different manufacturer? My previous replacements were OEM Lenovo, new, but they don't come cheap.

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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#32 Post by Theokretes » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:30 pm

Okay so I just swapped in a T500 on my T60p.

The temperatures are about 10C cooler now. So GPU will hit 60C max instead of 70C on load. My CPU is around 35C on idle.

To install it you have to stick a northbridge thermal pillow on the northbridge part (but the GPU will hit the copper directly), it doesn't need the retention bracket to fit in.

The reason why it runs cooler is because of the direct contact. Thermal pillows suck.

The only caveat with the T500 heatsink is that it fits VERY close against the keyboard. So it pushes up near G ever so slightly. Doesn't affect anything though.

EDIT:
In retrospect if the original T60p cooler could be modded to directly touch the GPU, it would most likely run cooler.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#33 Post by 600X » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:10 am

A small Update:

I am currently trying to build the ultimate 14" T60. While sourcing parts I was able to acquire a rare Intel U7700 CPU in the PGA version. So I guess that confirms it, they do exist. I have also found a heatsink and fan that is far superior to the T500/W500 solution. And there are also all-in-one no worries modded ATI drivers available that will run on Windows 7, 8 and 10! It supports all T60 GPU's, from the X1300 to the V5250. I also found some other goodies like a wide viewing angle screen.

Now this all sounds very exciting but I will only be able to report on all of this when I return to Germany during Easter and put my ultimate T60 together.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#34 Post by Shredder11 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:23 pm

Sounds great! Good luck :)
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#35 Post by dr_st » Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:09 pm

Could you elaborate a bit on the wide viewing angle 14" screen?
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#36 Post by 600X » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:48 am

dr_st wrote:Could you elaborate a bit on the wide viewing angle 14" screen?
It was originally used for some old Acer or Toshiba 14" convertible. Not sure about compatibility yet, apart from the fact that it's also a CCFL display. But it only cost me 30€ new, so it's worth a shot. Even if it isn't compatible, I will make it compatible. After the X301 AFFS mod, one just doesn't fear extreme display modding anymore.

I was also told that the U7700 is a Socket P, so it I will have to try it on my T61 instead. Someone over at the German forum is using a T60 with an L2300 CPU (17W), but those are even rarer than a U7000 CPU, so I'll have to go hunting for one.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#37 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:23 pm

It was originally used for some old Acer or Toshiba 14" convertible.
AFAIK there are no 14.1 inch IPS or PVA panels, but there's an XGA 14.1-inch TN panel that has a 70-degree viewing angle, at least according to panelook.com. It's the CMO N141X9-L01. Amusingly enough, it's listed in the service manual for the Acer C300 series tablet/laptop hybrid.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#38 Post by 600X » Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:20 pm

The N141X9-L01 is also used in the Toshiba R10-101.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#39 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:30 pm

600X wrote:The N141X9-L01 is also used in the Toshiba R10-101.
In that case, that's probably the panel you have.

Aside from the underwhelming XGA resolution, it seems to be a TN panel worth looking for.
You may have to do modify the EDID before plugging it in, as T6x have a sort-of whitelist for LCD panels.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#40 Post by 600X » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:03 am

The seller advertised it as a Toshiba R10-101 display, so I sure hope it is one. Do you happen to know a guide that explains how to modify the EDID?
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#42 Post by rumbero » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:34 am

Thanks for all those absolutely useful links, RBS!

For those rather inclined to write the EDID in Linux, i once found a German language How-To on following page on the thinkwiki.de site:

http://thinkwiki.de/Display-EDID_veränd ... nter_Linux (disclaimer: didn't try it myself yet)

And while we are at it, let me add some appraisal:

RBS, during all the years since i started frequenting this forum, you never ceased to keep me absolutely amazed about the profundity of your ever repeating helpfulness! :bow:
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#43 Post by buzzliteyear » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:45 am

Hello and thanks for a great forum,

I have the T60 1.83Ghz 2 GB ram V3 MB but it has the Intel 945 graphics card inside

can i still use the W500 heat sink/fan system as i want to upgrade to the T7600 cpu which i think has 2 more watts of power plus my fan seems to go all the time once warmed up

Cheers Brett

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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#44 Post by 600X » Sun Jun 28, 2015 4:50 am

Yes you can.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#45 Post by Muse » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:06 am

I have a T60 with ATI graphics, but it's being used for light duty purposes. The T6x that I use most frequently is a T60 with Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 (I'm using it right now). This non-ATI machine is quiet some of the time but after a minute or so of silence the fan spins up for several minutes. IOW, the fan's on most of the time. Is there a way I can ameliorate this annoyance? I'm kind of used to it after all these years (almost 9), but if I can lessen the effect that would be nice. Are there measures explained in this thread that would help with this machine?
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#46 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:23 am

Yup, remove the fan, clean it and the CPU thoroughly and replace the thermal paste with AS5.
Should be very quiet afterwards.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#47 Post by undervolter » Sun Sep 06, 2015 7:16 am

Thank you very much for your guide!

I have taken apart my whole T60p in order to place a cooling pad between the southbridge and the case. It seems to work, temperatures have fallen a little. Apart from that I removed the modem plus cables, exchanged the heat-conductive paste (Gelid Cool) and cleaned up a little. I am using copper plates beneath the gpu and northbridge, which seem to do a good job. I also bent the metal piece a bit which is meant to press down the cooler.

My new T7200 works just fine @ 0,9625V @ 2 Ghz. Much better than my old T2600 @ 1,0875V.

Overall, even with my old cooler, temperatures have fallen by a few degrees. Just enought to prevent the fan from starting too often. I will try to get hands on a better cooler ... the one I had ordered seems to be broken already.

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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#48 Post by kkk » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:13 pm

Not exactly a T60 with ATI GPU but... it's still T60's case now with Nvidia graphics: that's my mod in attempt to get a cooler system - wider and taller vent holes. Tried to copy the ones of T61. Beside this I also sanded the inner part of the holes because the smoother surface prevents from air turbulence and makes the system quieter. Now even when the fan is on full throttle there is no splashing when the air is coming out from the vents. It's not something wich can be done quickly - took me about one day to do it, but it's deffinitely worth the effords.

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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#49 Post by ethink » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:25 am

If you use of T60 / T60p with either Advanced Dock (2503) or Basic Dock, here is an addition tip to improve CPU and GPU temperatures.

Comments from T60 owners confirm that these machines do run a bit warmer in the dock because the lid is closed. With the lid closed, there are a set of cooling vents immediately above the fan that are obstructed.

Use the Lenovo Power Manager to created a new power management option, e.g. "Docked", with a setting for performance as "adaptive" (instead of "maximum"). This new power manager setting SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the CPU and GPU temperatures for average activities.

On my T60p running Win7, TPFC 0.62 shows average temperature of CPU of 50C and GPU of 70C.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#50 Post by 600X » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:06 am

Just to give you a small update and show you how relevant my guide still is: My mom has been complaining about her uncomfortably hot T60 (X1400) for years. So this christmas I decided to finally do the full conversion on her T60 as well. I upgraded the T2500 to a T7200, cleaned out all the internals, fitted a thermal pad on the southbridge, installed a W500 heat sink with IC diamond, replaced the wireless adapter with a Intel 6300 and last but not least, fitted the machine with a Samsung 470 SSD.

Coupled with a clean install of Windows 7 and RMClock, the results speak for themselves. 41°C on the CPU and GPU in idle, compared to 60-70°C prior to the conversion. I also cleaned the casing, replaced worn out stickers with new ones and installed a new NMB keyboard. It really feels like an entirely different machine now. I've done a few of these conversions now as described in my guide and I am always amazed by the results.
Last edited by 600X on Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#51 Post by ethink » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:09 pm

600X wrote:Hello there,

Many people still love and use their T60's. This doesn't come as a surprise; they are really awesome machines and some even call them the last true ThinkPads. However, one problem that haunts many T60 owners, especially those with discrete ATI graphics (basically the majority) is heat.
Thank You, 600X, for this helpful post, especially the link to the latest "whitelist" BIOS.

I still appreciate and use my 9 year old T60p on a daily basis. I agree that these T60p's are the "last true Thinkpads"!
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#52 Post by RyanR » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:00 am

Hi everyone. After I solve a HDD space issue I am going to look into some modifications to my cooling. I have the t60p with firegl 5250 ati. It runs 60-70 youtube and playing Farcry 2.
I am planning on using old copper cored/aluminum outside heatsinks off older desktops, cutting them/Machining them (family works at a machine shop) to fit on the GPU etc.. in combined with a new stock cooler. Adding the heat pads to the other chips is also another idea I like. Has anyone performed any airflow mods besides the modem removal and sanding? I see holes on the bottom of the machine that look like intake holes for the fan.

On another note what is the signs of a fan failure. This machine has definitely been opened. It has some signs of a less then pro (a cracked plastic piece and the top area with the volume and power/thinkvantageis not set in right.)
I feel it has been changed but it makes a noise I can only say I visualize the fan bobbing around in a warn out fashion :)
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#53 Post by Sense » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:49 pm

This is a great guide.

Does anyone still have that modified bios file? The link is no long working :(
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool*

#54 Post by Pete B » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:27 pm

600X wrote:
dr_st wrote:My stock T60 15" shows similar temperatures while idling (although to be fair - it is not undervolted, and the temperatures here right now are the highest they ever get during the year).
It's summer here too, so I might get even better results in winter. Nevertheless, the optimized T60 usually reaches about 43 degrees while surfing and about 39-40 while idling. Also notice how the 4 major chips I mentioned (cpu, gpu, aps, pci) all have about the same temperature.

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/eccd/n ... uy4rfg.jpg

When stressing the CPU slightly more (YouTube videos) I usually reach about 50 degrees. But it's not just the inside temperatures, the bottom of the T60 stays really cool as well.

I haven't been able to test my mom's T60 yet, but I believe it is around 50-55 degrees hot while idling as well.
I see that you're using TPfc to measure temps, did you try or use any other software?
I'm interested in the Northbridge temp, is it aps or reported somewhere there?
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#55 Post by 600X » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:58 pm

Furmark also shows GPU temps, which were in line with what TPFC was showing. I didn't try any other program. I'm not sure which one is the Northbridge, but it should be running at a similar temperature as the other chips.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#56 Post by j-dogg » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:11 pm

I would like to say on the stock cooler and crappy thermal paste I enabled Maximum Battery Life and it will get the temps down to 50*C but you take a performance hit. In Win 7 64bit (which I somehow got working) it's not too bad but noticeable. 4gb RAM helps. I'm running the T7200 with the ATi graphics.

Gaming, forget it. With everything cranked up I stayed around 90*C so I will be doing this mod, until those cool Skylake kits from 51nb come out if they do.
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#57 Post by zoltan87 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:10 pm

Is there any alternative to RMclock, since that doesn't work on Windows 8.1 64 bit (and assumably on Win 10 )? This undervolting would be a neat thing, but completely un-doable on modern Windows, at least with RMclock.

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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#58 Post by zoltan87 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:17 am

Ok, I finally got around doing all the mods I wanted to my T60. The difference in usability is night and day. I can't believe how big of a difference you can make to this laptop, if you spend your time on it.

My aim was to make it a lot more quiet and cool, but without sacrificing any performance. I am happy to say that I managed to achieve my goal, thanks to this thread and after some google research.

Here are the specs of my system: Thinkpad T60 15 inch, FlexView 1400 x 1050, Ati x1400 128mb, Intel Core 2 Duo T7600 2.33 ghz, 3gb ram, Kingston V300 240 gb SSD, Intel N 6200 Wifi card (no whitelist BIOS, so that this card works).

I swapped the original heatsink assembly out with a Thinkpad t500 heatsink (the one with double pipes for the cpu, not sure about exact part number). This new heatsink is definitely a tight fit between the ati gpu and keyboard bottom plate, but it fits, and the good news is, it can transfer heat from the gpu to the steel bottom plate of the keyboard. I also added copper shims between the heasink and keyboard bottom plate on the cpu, and at the other end of the heatsink, close to the top left corner of the keyboard, where it exhausts the heat. I used Arctic silver MX4 paste everywhere where contact is being made and heattransfer is necessary.

I also removed the heatpads from the heatsink, and used the same type of copper shims (15mm x 15mm x 0.8 mm) as I used everywhere else, using more where it needed, like on the North bridge (?) that is under the gpu at the very end of the heatsink pipe, using thin layers of MX4 paste between the shims. One thing I was afraid of was cracking the Ati gpu die, as it's very tight there, and removing the heatpad, the solid copper block makes contact with it, and the keyboard also slightly pushes the heatsink assembly down on it. But luckily no issues, and I really don't think there will be problems with this setup. Although it would be definitely risky starting to smash the keyboard in anger. Luckily I am a very calm guy :).

Then I installed tpfancontrol (a Thinkpad fan control program), but I didn't really tinker with it (you can change temperature treshold values etc.), left it on smart mode, edited the TPfancontrol.ini file so that on system startup it will stay hidden (the temperature monitoring window). The normal treshold is 65 celsius, under that the fan stays off, 65 and above the fan kicks in, first on level 1, then ramps up as temps rise. Level 7 is the max. As you will see after all the mods, it will never need to go higher than level 3.

After all this I needed to find a program that I can use to undervolt my CPU on Windows 8.1 64 bit. RMclock doesn't work, but after lots of searching around, I found a program called CPUgenie, that does just wnat I need. It's not free, after the demo version it costs $15, but I think it well worth it.

CPUgenie has an automatic voltage adjusting and testing function. I run the short version of that test, ~3 minutes per voltage, it goes through on all the frequencies starting from 1000 mhz all the way up to 2333 mhz, gradually decreasing the voltage on each frequency level, and setting the lowest safe values. During this test I had two bsod-s (blue screen of deaths), furtunately the program is intelligent enough, and when the sytem restarts and you launch CPUgenie again, it detects that bsod occured due to too low voltage, and offers you the option to set the last tested safe voltage value, and continue the remaining of the test from there.

It really saves time, unfortunately this method is still not perfect, at least not the short 3 minute stress tests, as after finishing with all the tests and setting the new lower voltages, I still had a bsod when tried to open Youtube, so I added one extra voltage value manually to most set values, just to be safe. Then I run Pime95, Unigine Valley, and did multiple other things, the system is rock solid now.

Just for your interest here are the values I ended up with, keep in mind these values change from cpu to cpu, so even if you have the same cpu and computer, you need to do your own stress tests, you can't just copy these values, but I thought I can give you an idea that what is achievable:

Frequency factory voltage new voltage
1000 MHz 0.950 V 0.950 V
1333 MHz 1.000 V 0.950 V
1667 MHz 1.050 V 0.950 V
2000 MHz 1.100 V 0.962 V
2333 MHz 1.137 V 1.025 V

So after all this I run a few tests and here are the results:

Ambient room temperature: ~24 celsius

Prime 95: cpu: 74 celsius
gpu: 61 celsius
fan: level 3, 3455 RPM

Prime 95 + Unigine Valley (gpu benchmark progam): cpu: 74 celsius
gpu: 70 celsius
fan: level 3, 3498 RPM

While browsing the internet it stays under the 65 celsius treshold, so there is no fan noise, and because I use an SSD there are no other noises either, the whole system is completely silent. It's absolutely amazing.
When watching youtube 720p videos, the temperature goes above 65, so the fan kicks in (on level 1), then temperatures saty around 65-66 celsius. Also it's interesting to note, when a video is running but I scroll down for the comments, the temps immediately start to drop, and then the fan stops, and temps stay around 63 celsius, again a silent system. It makes sense, I just never realized that videos running in the background consume so much less resources. Also when the video finished, temps drop down below 65 celsius within 10 seconds.

All in all I am extremely happy. Before these mods the fan was running constantly and loudly, temps were always above 70 and even 80 during normal tasks like browsing the net and watching videos, I didn't even try to do bechmarks, as I was afraid of frying something or doing a thermal shutdown. My temperatures are far from the ones the original poster here managed to achieve, but I didn't want to make those compromises that he did (putting the Ati gpu in power saving mode, constantly running the fan). My system works to it's full potential, it's extremely cool in laptop standards (74 celsius max benchmarking, before that was the temp for watching a 720p video and the fan was running very loud with a lot higher rpm), and the most important thing for me, it's quiet, and during light tasks it's completely silent as the fan stays off. It really is a completely different machine. If you have the patience and time, then I definitely recommend these mods, these lovely machines deserve it.

dr_st
Senior ThinkPadder
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Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#59 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:33 pm

This is a very great achievement indeed; thank you for describing it in such great detail.

The good thing about these mods is that you really have a choice of how much you want to invest (time / effort / money) versus what you want to achieve, and optimize (fan noise / temperatures / performance).
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Past: Z61t 9440-A23, T60 2623-D3U, X32 2884-M5U

zoltan87
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Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:16 pm
Location: Plymouth, United Kingdom

Re: [GUIDE] Make your T60 with ATI run *cool* (and quiet)

#60 Post by zoltan87 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:21 pm

Since I made this mod to my laptop I have changed a few things in tpfancontrol regarding the temperature tresholds. I really like my T60, and if I want to keep using it for many years to come, I think it's better to keep the temperatures as low as possible. I start the fan a lot earlier now in normal use, but I have a second cooling profile set up there too (Smart2), that is more quiet, I change between the two profiles (named the first profile "cool" and the second "quiet") with keyboard shortcut as I see fit (could change between them clicking on the tray on tpfancontrol icon, but keyboard shortcuts are just quicker).

I came to realize that one of the main issues with the Thinkpad T60 is it's embedded rpm profile for different fan speed levels. It starts with 3000 rpm on level 1, that is just waaay too high. It should be somewhere around 1500-2000 rpm max. I have no idea what were the IBM (Lenovo?) engineers thinking when they implemented that number. The system is completely quiet in passive, then the fan comes on with 3000 rpm in first stage, it just doesn't make any sense.

Is there a way to somehow change these rpm numbers? Or trick the controller into reading higher numbers than the actual fan speed? I really want to make a quiet first level for the fan where it slightly cools but is inaudible.

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