Frankenpad Questions

[Pete B]

Looking for a T61 14" 4:3 Motherboard and was wondering if it is safe to assume that since the Merom motherboards are older, do they all have Nvidia parts that are bound to fail? Or did production of these boards continue along with the Penryn boards? Were any of the 42W7649/43Y9045 (Merom) boards manufactured with the good Nvidia chip?

How much more power hungry is the FX570M as compared to the NVS140? Did they fail even more due to the higher power/heat?

I will probably play it safe and just use an Intel based board but I was curious to find out the answer.

Edit:
I was asked through PM to list the part numbers for the parts that I'm using:
Motherboard:
Bought 42W7872 Penryn Intel video, but the Merom board would work with
Middleton BIOS, my thinking is that the Penryn board is probably newer production.
After reading this, I would consider a known good motherboard with NVS140 from forum members:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=105114

Heat Sink Fan:
From the above thread best seems to be: (was told it will also work with Intel graphics)
T61P heatsink 42W2028 for the heatsink
T500 heatsink 45N5492 for the fan, put it into above heatsink.
Processor: (any of these 45nm Penryn processors would be fine for my use)
Board came with T8300 2.4GHz, I have a T9300 at 2.5 GHz but for kicks I chose an X9000 at 2.8 GHz.

Some serious fan control hacking, this is a normal T60 not a Frankenpad:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 19#p678419

Heatsink Cover:
The T61 heatsink clamps do not fit in the T60 chassis, the correct cover/clamp to
hold down the Northbridge/GPU side of the heatsink is FRU 26R9633. Most suggest
grinding/cutting away one of the corners so that it fits correctly as shown in this picture:
http://www.e30tuner.com/assist/frankenp ... _hs010.jpg


BIOS: Flashed to Middleton version wth CTRL which puts the left CTRL key in the right spot.
Also takes system from SATA 1 to SATA 2, removes while list for wifi, etc.

Display panel:
Mine in the T60 is dim, have not decided on a replacement at this point.
How to add EDID to older panels: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 46#p621946

Looking into currently (2016) available IPS panels.
RBS suggests Sharp LQ150U1LW22 or LQ150U1LW22N UXGA AVS, not IPS but good
alternative - might try one of these. RBS wrote:
"Funny that nobody mentions the 15" Sharp UXGA with ASV, which is quite comparable to IPS!
http://www.sharpsma.com/lcds/lcd-refere ... technology
Look for these models: LQ150U1LW22 or LQ150U1LW22N
When/if sold as DELL-screens, there can be an inverter mounted on the back of the panel.
This can easily be removed (after you disconnect the CCFL-cable and 2 screws on the side).
All it requires is a small Z-fold (2 x 8mm) in the LCD-cable to fit in the T60."

ID Tech IPS UXGA FRU is 42T0345

BOE IPS UXGA FRU is 13N7076

BOE Hydis Viewiz IPS Panel part numbers from RBS, LED version not available at a
reasonable price >$700:
From: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=120554
HV150UX1-100 - UXGA with CCFL
HV150UX2-100 - UXGA with LED
HX150UX2-100 - does not exist AFAIK, but HX... usually indicates XGA screen
HVT-150UX2-LE - probably their own number for a modded HV150UX2-100, which seems almost identical.
From the looks, they built an inverter/connector-panel on the back of the LCD.

How to replace CCFL tube in IDTech display - thanks to RBS:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88991

How to Flash Display EDID - Only Needed For Non-Standard Displays
I tried this and got ""DDC communication from the monitor failed or is not supported"
Reverting to EDID data provided by Windows.
I believed this error message and gave up, then read this by one of the forum experts:
cirthix wrote:
"It's sealed. I get the same DDC communcation failure error when attempting to READ the edid, but it finds the chip without error when attempting to UPDATE the edid.
You do not need to be displaying anything to the laptop's panel to be able to write the edid, just select any attached display click update edid, and note the name on the confirmation dialog box. If the name is your external, skip that one and the next should be the QXGA."
From: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77391#p513072

I will try it again.
More on EDID Flashing suggested by RBS:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=513541
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77733
http://entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm
http://forums.entechtaiwan.com/index.php?topic=6278.0
EDID database for flash data:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=82149

Quad XGA (QXGA) is Possible:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=77733
But do the EDID reflash this way:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=513541

WiFi:
Seems there are a lot of possible choices but only a few that support the new AC standard,
Middleton BIOS is required to remove the white list for these cards:
Informative thread on WiFi cards for the X61 but they should also work in the T61:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=774465

FlyingFishFinger writes:
"I use an AzureWave AW-CE123H. Half size, Wifi a/b/g/n/ac + BT 4.0. No issues so far, I'd recommend it."
I tried this card even with Middleton and system would not boot, just hung at the Thinkvantage screen.
I might have put this in the wrong slot, will try it in the other.
Here is a link to the driver for the AzureWave card: http://www.bplus.com.tw/Accessory/AW-CE123H.html

Using and a/b/g/n Intel 5300 for now that works fine.
Others suggest the Intel 6300 or Intel Advanced-N 6205 cards:
Intel 6200/6205 with 2 antennas or Intel 6300 with 3 antennas.

Ajkula66 writes:
"Atheros 9380 would be my recommendation. It's not AC capable, but is - in my experience - the best abgn card in existence."

Battery: Most that are still working today are Panasonics:
Ajkula66 says: "Stick with 92P1133, that's what all of my working ones are."
RBS suggests the FRU P/N 42T4620
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 28#p784928
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 25#p779825

Discussion on how to recalibrate Thinkpad batteries, some have seen capacity go
from 20 to 39 Whrs - nice:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 2&p=785684

USB3:
It is possible to add USB3 ports through expansion cards in the express slot. I'm not at
all familiar with these and found this on the forum by eecon, use at your own risk:
"The default T61 "customization" menu for USA purchases includes an Express/54 in the top position and a standard PCMIA card bus slot on the bottom. The reference to /54 after "express" indicates that it will handle both the 34mm and the wider 54mm express cards. For more info check this site:
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2849
Discussion here about the performance, note second to last post:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=756947

Based on this I believe that a Frankenpad with the correct cage is Express/54 compatible.
I'm looking at the AKE USB3.0 express/54 card at this point, and will report back if it works.
An interesting review but it does not test the cards in a T61, it shows nearly 3X USB2
speeds for most of the cards, note compatibility issues:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=110163

Issues with the AKE are discussed here with solutions:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=108201
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 62#p702162

Express Card Cage:
Not all T61s had express card cages, or if you buy a bare motherboard you'll need
the card cage. Again from RBS: Look on eBay for "lenovo 42x3828".

I was only able to find a card cage type 42X3832 on ebay and I'll report back here
when it arrives and I see what the lower slot is.

RAM:
DDR2 laptop RAM is required PC2-5300 (667 MHz) or PC2-6400 (800MHz) for the T61.
2X2GB is inexpensive used or even new.
2X4GB is expensive, usually >$100
Elpida is the only company that made this type of RAM with metal heat spreaders, part
number is EBE41UF8ABDA-6E-E.


Motherboard Part Numbers:
Link to table with motherboard part numbers - see MotherBoards (Planar Card) section
and you want the 14.1" Standard (4X3) type for a 15" Frankenpad:
https://t61.wikispaces.com/

[FryPpy]

Hello. Go to the T61 "home" - find table of T61's motherboards. Eg - 43y9045 is merom 4:3 motherboard with cured NVS140M... This is good starting point for begin hunting.
ALL (and FX570M too) pre 08/2008 nvidias are bug prone

[600X]

The NVS140M has 10W TDP, the FX570M has 35W TDP.

[Pete B]

Thanks, that is a very informative web site.

Looking at T60s I'm finding 15", 4:3 with SXGA+ displays were these all Flexview? I've read conflicting reports are all Flexviews IPS displays?

[ajkula66]

Looking at T60s I'm finding 15", 4:3 with SXGA+ displays were these all Flexview?

Yes.

I've read conflicting reports are all Flexviews IPS displays?

From the factory, every 15" SXGA+ LCD used on a T60/p was an IPS FlexView screen, mostly LG Philips and these get quite dim over time, so be careful...

[Pete B]

Thanks again, also came across this which confirms what you wrote: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

[ajkula66]

Looking for a T61 14" 4:3 Motherboard and was wondering if it is safe to assume that since the Merom motherboards are older, do they all have Nvidia parts that are bound to fail? Or did production of these boards continue along with the Penryn boards? Were any of the 42W7649/43Y9045 (Merom) boards manufactured with the good Nvidia chip?

Unless you manage to obtain a NOS planar with a revised chip - a rather costly proposition when compared to the rest of the build - you'll be looking at an "unsafe" chip. Having said that, I'd take a Penryn-era planar over a Merom one any day of the week and any hour of the day.

How much more power hungry is the FX570M as compared to the NVS140? Did theyfail even more due to the higher power/heat?

Unless you specifically need the horsepower of nVidia chips - and FX570M is definitely a more powerful one, not quite certain about the failure rate - Intel board is your best bet.

I will probably play it safe and just use an Intel based board but I was curious to find out the answer.

Most non-gamers are quite happy with Intel boards. I suspect you'll be too.

[Pete B]

I almost bought this, and it is partly why I asked the questions. Finally decided, why not for $30 but when I went to buy it, it had already sold 42W7650: http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-LENOVO-T61p ... true&rt=nc

It would have been interesting to try but I don't want the extra power/heat of the video chip.

I'm sure Intel graphics will be fine since I often use desktops with Intel only graphics without any problems at all.

[Medessec]

That 7650 looks like an early FX570M board... if it's working, even if it's warranty repaired, it's probably not going to be the longest lasting NVIDIA planar you can get.

The FX570M is gargantuanly powerful, but even the NOS board versions of them can be susceptible to a limited lifespan, especially when paired with a T9500. Not specifically to the NVIDIA chip issue, but it puts out so much heat, something else in the laptop can give out. Don't get me wrong, the T61 is fantastically engineered machine, but if you want it to last forever(I'm talking 5-10 years), an Intel-graphics machine can do that easy. Provided the rest of the laptop is up to snuff, and you don't give it any unreasonable treatment.

[Pete B]

T60 is here more beat up that the one pictured in the ad, display obviously more dim than in the picture, and it is BIOS locked. Sending it back.

[ajkula66]

May I humbly suggest trying to pick up a machine in Marketplace here instead of fleabay? Sure, you'll pay a few bucks more, but a peace of mind is priceless IMO.

And no, I don't have one to sell you...

[kkk]

When I decided to convert my T60 into Frankenpad, I just went to a local reseller and picked up the first one T61 with Nvidia that looked like never used (they had nearly 200 T61s with Nvidia 140NVS, and about 150 with Intel graphics). I got it for 130~150 USD with 6 months warranty. I didn't spent hours and days, and hours and days of searching for "the right one" and testing it, because I do know much better ways for spending my free time. My point is these machines are so cheap and there are so many of them, that they doesn't worth the aforementioned effords. Look at this point - if you spent that time working, I'm sire that you will earn more money than the cost of such machine. And if you're gonna use it as a primary, and don't have any spare PC/Laptop, just get two of them.

[Pete B]

Thanks for the advice. This is partly a hobby for me, I shop while I'm watching the news usually - I wouldn't be here if it wasn't a hobby. I find the hardest part is figuring out the model numbers which I would have to do no matter who I buy from. Most of what I've bought has been fine, if not far better than described, I can't really complain. I bought one dead laptop for the 4GB of RAM for only a few bucks more than the RAM alone would have cost - got it working completely with very little effort. Bought another for parts that said it would not boot, one 512K RAM module was bad, replaced it and it works fine.

It is rather ridiculous that IBM uses one model number such as the T60 or T61 that comes in 14", 15", widescreen, non-wide, and within each one different resolutions, and obviously many other different options. At least with Dell you have, for example, the D830 for 15" and D630 for 14", the service tag number is easy to look up and find out all the details of the original configuration. I actually bought a Penryn Dell D830 thinking this is a lot like a T61 but much easier to shop for, but only used it probably for a few hours because I dislike the display so much. I've now learned, at least fairly certain, that Dell didn't make a D830 with a good display.

I've become a sort of laptop collector and I'll try them out and keep the ones that I like the best - most have been at least business rugged and in very nice condition. I'm going to take a few more shots at the T60 on my own, then I'll look here. On second thought I'll look in the for sale forum now and see if anything looks interesting.

[ajkula66]

On second thought I'll look in the for sale forum now and see if anything looks interesting.

You can also post a WTB (want to buy) ad looking for a specific item...

Happy hunting.

[TuuS]

Looking at that ebay add for the 42w7650 board and I'd treat that has highly suspect. Although we don't see this as often as we did a couple years ago there are still people selling boards with failed nVidia chips after reflowing the chip or baking the board in an oven. This will often result in a board that works for the 14day return period and if it lasts 30days you don't even have the option to file a dispute, so buying an nVidia board can be risky. When I source them I get laptops direct from the corporations when they retire and from there I test them all for a full 7 days including several hours of gpu specific stress testing while temps are monitored. Once you've tested enough of these you can spot the ones that have been reflowed or that are in the process of failing, but the best option if you want nVidia is an NOS (new old-stock) board and I have a few of them if you're interested. The updated GPU was never used in standard production of the 4:3 units but there were some new replacement boards made post-production, but the supply was exhausted years ago. Luckily some turned up that were supplied to IBM corporate customers and the ones that were never used eventually were liquidated when their fleets of T61/T61p laptops were retired. I currently have an nvs140m and fx570m boards with 2010 dated gpu chips available as well as the Intel boards, both 42w7648 and the rare 42w7872. The Intel boards are the most efficient if you want something that runs cool and is easy on your battery, but if you want something with some graphic power that is supported by all the popular graphics apps then the nvs140m is a good choice. They are a more refined version of the popular Gforce and if you want to use one for gaming they can be softmodded with gforce drivers and safely overclocked upto 70%.... not that I recommend pushing them to the max, but if you're careful with your temps you should be ok. The most important thing with these and all GPU chips is to avoid excessive heat cycling, this is the main cause of stress, much more so than the operating temps.

[Pete B]

Thanks, I was guessing that what you describe might have been the case for that board. Yes, an Intel board should work fine for me for now. I gave ebay one more try but I have a feeling you'll be hearing from me soon. Getting busy again with other work so, this might have to go on the back burner again but thanks I will PM you for parts if I need any. Appreciate all the help from everyone.

[Pete B]

I thought that this was probably a Frankenpad, then noticed that the serial number in the BIOS matches the one on the back. It claims to be a T60 with a T8300 processor as shown in the BIOS display. Is it probably just a T61 incorrectly listed, it is an 8897CTO? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... 7675.l2557

I'm not sure how much is determined by the 8897 part of the Serial Number and type number, but a search on ebay turns up T61s that are, I think, 4:3 14".

[ajkula66]

Is it probably just a T61 incorrectly listed, it is an 8897CTO? I'm not sure how much is determined by the 8897 part of the Serial Number and type number, but a search on ebay turns up T61s that are, I think, 4:3 14".

Correct in all respects. That one had a motherboard replaced at some point as well. Pretty good deal, whoever ended up getting it...

[Pete B]

Is it probably just a T61 incorrectly listed, it is an 8897CTO? I'm not sure how much is determined by the 8897 part of the Serial Number and type number, but a search on ebay turns up T61s that are, I think, 4:3 14".

Correct in all respects. That one had a motherboard replaced at some point as well. Pretty good deal, whoever ended up getting it...

Thanks for taking a look. I bought it and figured if it was a Frankenpad that would be good, otherwise as a 14" 4:3 T61 it is usable in a Frankenpad - hope that is correct. And, since it has a T8300 I'm hoping that it is a Penryn type motherboard. I might just start out using it as is since I was thinking that I might prefer the lower weight of the 14" model.

How can you tell that the motherboard was replaced?

Has the "decoding" of the type number been discussed somewhere, what the 8897 tells us for example, where I can read more about it? I learned on here that CTO indicates that it was a custom order but I'm not sure what exactly is custom for a given type number. I have looked up non-CTO types and found detailed specs.

[RealBlackStuff]

Based on the MTM in BIOS and on the bottom, that machine is indeed a 14.1" 4:3 T61.
It is NOT a Frankenpad, but you can put its mobo in a modded 15" T60 chassis to make it one.
The all-zero in the UUID indicates that the mobo was exchanged.

TYPEs can be found in the PSREF: http://www.lenovo.com/psref/
For older machines, check in the Withdrawn Products.
Until Lenovo started their moronic deletion of older data, you could even look up what parts were in it ex-factory.

A lot of people have also memorized a lot of Types...
e.g. anything starting with 88xx is a 14.1" 4:3 T61
8889-8890-8892 has nVidia graphics
8895-8896-8897 has Intel graphics
And CTO stands for: Configured To Order.
Quite often the ProductID then tells you on what MTM it is based, but not in your case.

[Pete B]

Thanks everyone, those numbers are good to know, thanks RBS.

It is here and it has a clone AC adapter and battery - probably won't use them, since I have others. In a bit rougher shape with a cracked hand rest, but still usable for now. Hinges are loose, display looks reasonably bright in the BIOS. Plan is to get it working as is, then do the transplant into a T60 down the road.

Going right to an SSD that I already have, seller said it has a BIOS setup for SSDs, and I wonder if he is saying it has the Middleton version? Is there a way to determine if it is already installed? I want to run AHCI mode on the SATA, is that an option with Middleton or always enabled?

Plan to install a newer wifi card for lower power, and a better heatsink/fan if it does not already have the best one. And to use a T9300 in that I already have and 4GB of RAM.

Does the system board serial number VF1G985LF72 tell anything?

[Cigarguy]

BIOS set up for SSD? Don't know what that mean but chances are it mean the SATA setting in BIOS is set to AHCI which is the default setting anyways. The other mode is "compatibility" which I've never had to use.

Hard to tell if Middleton have been flashed or not. Pesonally I never trust the previous owner unless it's TuuS from this forum so go ahead and flash Middleton's BIOS anyways. Middleton's BIOS retains all the functionality of Lenovo's BIOS with added benefits so yes you can switch between "compatibility" and AHCI SATA mode. AHCI is the default setting.

Personally I'd take everything apart, blow out the dust and reapply TIM. Then download and run a live Linux distro to see if everything is working half decently. Most live Linus distro will come with Memtest+ to test memory, do that. Then I'd load Windows on a cheap spare HDD and stress test everything. During the torture test you'll find out quickly enough if everything is OK. If all checks out, then install a SSD and load the OS. Then and only then would I consider this machine stable enough to be entrusted with my data.

[Pete B]

Thanks, sounds like a good plan.

Is there a favorite Live Linux distro for testing PCs?

I want to try Linux Mint, but not sure if there is a Live DVD.

[ajkula66]

I want to try Linux Mint, but not sure if there is a Live DVD.

Yes there is.

[Pete B]

Thanks, will check that out.

BIOS says version 2.27 and Embedded controller 1.08 which I think is Middleton, don't see any reason to reflash it if that is the latest.

This post, says 2.27 is Middleton: http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo/ ... ost6510253

Edit: just looked at the latest and it is 2.29 so I will flash it

[Pete B]

Flashed to Middleton 2.29 and installed SSD that was a clone of Win 7 64 from an X61T. Uninstalled a couple of incorrect drivers, let them reinstall and all seems fine. Modem driver will not install from MS updates, not sure what is going on with that but the system works fine otherwise.

Display looks decent but not IPS. I was reading schematics for some audio equipment yesterday on my 15" UXGA and it really spoils me.

Fan hardly runs but it is a bit noisy with something like a grinding noise, I had planned to replace it with the T500 which, as I understand it, is the best one.

[Cigarguy]

Those 15" Flexview screens was and is something.

Can't remember the last time I need or want to use the modem so most of my Thinkpads don't have it anymore. I'd check Lenovo's support site if you really want the driver.

[Pete B]

After using it a bit I'm finding the 14.1" display to be very dim, it works fairly well in low light situations but in a normally lit room it is quite bad. I looked here and there do not seem to be any 14.1" IPS displays: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

Is there a best display (brand, part number) that drops in without any changes? Or anything better that might take a bit of work to fit?

I would like to get this working as best as possible and I also plan to do the Frankenpad swap soon.

[Qing Dao]

14.1" is the 16:10, right? There is a nice MVA screen in that size, but nothing that will drop in without any mods.

[RealBlackStuff]

No, OP has a 14.1" 4:3 T61.
There are/were only 2 screen-types available for it: XGA and SXGA+.
Generally the TMD (Toshiba) ones are considered the best, followed by Boe-Hydis, then Samsung.
There are no IPS screens available in 14.1" 4:3.

Go to Drivers & HMMs at the top of this page and download T60 and T61 HMMs (standard, NOT widescreen) for P/N or FRU.