Thinkpads Forum

After I decided to finally leave XP behind and move onto Windows 7 I also decided unadvisedly perhaps to buy my first solid state drive, a 120GB Intel 520 for no other reason than it suit my budget.

Well installed Windows 7 and it seems as if the system locks up everything I touch or click something. Extracting a large archive from my NAS tp my desktop, drivers for example, take forever

Why?

I thought upgrading to a solid state drive was plug and play..

Is there something which has to be done prior to installing Windows 7, after, any drivers? What?

PS I have the latest official BIOS but see there is some unofficial BIOS which allows SATA II but I think my problem has nothing to do with this.

If this unofficial BIOS does have something to do with my problem or even if it doesn't, if you know it, what is the Control Fn Swap option?

If you just installed a bare W7, you'll need some Lenovo drivers, like Intel Chipset, Power Mgmt, Hotkey, etc.
Click on "Drivers & HMMs" at the top of this page, go to Drivers and select Thinkpad T61p

On Middleton's BIOS page it says:
Note: CTRL-FN swap is optional. Each BIOS package contains two versions of the patch. You can select the version without CTRL-FN swap.

RealBlackStuff wrote:If you just installed a bare W7, you'll need some Lenovo drivers, like Intel Chipset, Power Mgmt, Hotkey, etc.
Click on "Drivers & HMMs" at the top of this page, go to Drivers and select Thinkpad T61p

Sorry should have mentioned this. I am very familiar with ThinkPad OS installation - have only ever owned T series Thinkpads. Not ever even a desktop. I am used to installing drivers and installed everything needed. But still ever window seems to hang (not responding) as soon as click or run something and it takes ages for the system to 'unfreeze'

although having said that there are three 'Other Devices' called Base System Device under device manager which I can't put a driver to....

RealBlackStuff wrote:On Middleton's BIOS page it says:
Note: CTRL-FN swap is optional. Each BIOS package contains two versions of the patch. You can select the version without CTRL-FN swap.

Okay so I need to know what the patch versions are or which I need......

You have a T61p, right?
How many downloads are there for that type?

Sounds like there may be a problem with the SSD itself. Can you run some diagnostic tests on the drive?

RealBlackStuff wrote:You have a T61p, right?
How many downloads are there for that type?

Yes. Type is 6457

How many downloads? I don't know, I get them before hand - and keep them on my NAS based on what I know (think) I need. I had this down pat for XP. But maybe I am overlooking something for Windows.

As a side note I first installed Windows 7 as a dual boot with XP on an old HDD. I had a few problems including Windows Update wouldn't work. I was actually looking for answers regarding the SDD and found a reference to updrading (installing) the latest the Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver. Which I did and that seemed to fix a whole of things. Although the Base System Devices are still showing with question marks under Device manager.

Anyway funny that with the SDD install I did which hung so badly, Windows Update worked.

It will be interesting to see if installing or upgrading an Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver makes a difference for the SSD.

To be more specific: how many T61p downloads on that (previously linked by me) webpage

Your SSD issues are not common and is problematic. I would look at 1) BIOS maybe needs updating, in which case Middleton's BIOS is the one to go with, 2) SSD firmware needs updating or 3) being that the SSD was bought used, most likely the SSD is defective.

Upgrading the BIOS should take care of a corrupt/outdated BIOS on your Thinkpad. SATA mode should be AHCI not compatibility. Beyond that I'd return the SSD if you can or replace with another one.

I've encountered headaches with SandForce-based drives - of which Intel 520 is one - on this generation of ThinkPads. Honestly, I'd try moving away from it and onto a drive with a different controller altogether.

My $0.02 only...

ajkula66 wrote:I've encountered headaches with SandForce-based drives - of which Intel 520 is one - on this generation of ThinkPads. Honestly, I'd try moving away from it and onto a drive with a different controller altogether.

My $0.02 only...

thanks sorry move away from the controller i.e. ThinkPad or from the Intel 520 SSD?

Away from Intel 520 or any other SF-based SSD.

Nothing wrong with T61p...if it works, these are keepers...

Cigarguy wrote:Your SSD issues are not common and is problematic. I would look at 1) BIOS maybe needs updating, in which case Middleton's BIOS is the one to go with, 2) SSD firmware needs updating or 3) being that the SSD was bought used, most likely the SSD is defective.

Upgrading the BIOS should take care of a corrupt/outdated BIOS on your Thinkpad. SATA mode should be AHCI not compatibility. Beyond that I'd return the SSD if you can or replace with another one.

Thanks. The SDD is not used but was bought new. BIOS is the latest official BIOS and could not be corrupt because I have a parallel installation of Windows 7 on a regular HDD with the same drivers, and everything is working fine. SATA is configured for AHCI in the BIOS. So surely everything points to the SDD being the problem?

Before contemplate flashing the Middleton BIOS, is having a BIOS which limits HDD access to SATA 1 enough to cause the severe hanging and windows not responding which I was seeing?

Also then with regard to the Middleton BIOS, what is the CNTRL + FN swap option? And onced flashed is it equally good for HDD or SDD?

dav1129 wrote: Before contemplate flashing the Middleton BIOS, is having a BIOS which limits HDD access to SATA 1 enough to cause the severe hanging and windows not responding which I was seeing?

Also then with regard to the Middleton BIOS, what is the CNTRL + FN swap option? And onced flashed is it equally good for HDD or SDD?

No. Flashing Middleton's BIOS should not solve your SSD issue. The symptoms are similar to early Sandforce 22xx firmware issues which was finally mercifully fixed with a firmware update by Sandforce. People, like myself, who suffered through this have stayed away from Sandforce controlled drives ever since. Being that it's new, I'd return it. A driver somewhere is most certainly is the issue.

The CNTRL+FN swap does exactly what it says. It swaps the functionality of these two keyboard buttons beyond that everything else is the same as the "regular" Middleton BIOS. A BIOS, any BIOS, is neither good or bad for HDD or SSD. However in this case, by allowing SATA II speed it's generally considered good for a SSD because a modern SSD is fast enough to saturate SATA II.

Middleton's BIOS is one of the best if not the best modified BIOS out there. All my Thinkpads that can be flash with this BIOS have been flashed with this BIOS. It's completely free with many thanks to Middleton from the many of us who have used and benefited from his work.

Cigarguy wrote:Your SSD issues are not common and is problematic. I would look at 1) BIOS maybe needs updating, in which case Middleton's BIOS is the one to go with, 2) SSD firmware needs updating or 3) being that the SSD was bought used, most likely the SSD is defective.

I just wanted to be clear, did you mean to write is not common or (un)common?

I did return the drive to the store however as they say they installed in something and it ran fine I suspect they are going to be difficult about an exchange or refund.

I also flashed the middleton BIOS and everything seems to be working fine. but regardless I am reluctant to collect the drive from the store to try it again because I don't think the problems I was experiencing could simply be down to the difference between SATA I and SATA II speeds, theoretical or otherwise.

dav1129 wrote:

I did return the drive to the store however as they say they installed in something and it ran fine I suspect they are going to be difficult about an exchange or refund.

You can always put the drive on eBay...

because I don't think the problems I was experiencing could simply be down to the difference between SATA I and SATA II speeds, theoretical or otherwise.

And you are absolutely correct with that train of thoughts.

I know I'm a little "late to the game", but I'm a little surprised at your issues, although I must say that I've had my own problems with SSDs on Sandforce drivers. Never performance problems, just all-out failures, so I've subsequently used other drives.

My own experience with SSDs in T61 series machines have been outstanding. I've found that they, in combination with a healthy dose of RAM really extended the life of these older machines. I've used all manner of SSDs in them ranging from the Samsung contracted X18 in adapters to various Intels, and they've all run great. I will state that mine have all been the non-"P" machines, though ranging from highly spec'd nVidia GPU models to the lower-end integrated Intel GPU machines.

I would definitely give another drive a try especially given the price of them these days. I often see 240Gb Crucial drives around $100 USD, which is a really nice price.

schen wrote:I would definitely give another drive a try especially given the price of them these days. I often see 240Gb Crucial drives around $100 USD, which is a really nice price.

Yes I was really disappointed with this first experience but reluctant to invest the time to time make a product work which should work out of the box especially as I have otherwise have a perfect Windows 7 installation on a regular HDD dual boot which is screaming. The Intel SSD I tried had the latest BIOS so theoretically I think, everything things would be the same - Unless you are meant to install drive specific drivers on the notebook.

Thanks. I am now looking for recommendations.

I use the Corsair 'FORCE' SSDs in my T60/T61 thinkpads. They work without a problem, even before Windows Update. If you do get a lemon; Corsair will replace it under warranty without issue.

Intel always makes terrible memory controllers and terrible memory storage.

Theokretes wrote:I use the Corsair 'FORCE' SSDs in my T60/T61 thinkpads. They work without a problem, even before Windows Update. If you do get a lemon; Corsair will replace it under warranty without issue.

Another SandForce-based drive. I'd pass.

Intel always makes terrible memory controllers and terrible memory storage.

I'd beg to differ.

Having used Intel SSDs since the SLC days and onto the 730 series that I'm on now, I've never encountered any issues with them apart from the units that utilized SandForce controllers.

To OP: Crucial M4 (aka Micron C400) is an excellent choice if you can locate a NOS example. The same applies to MX100 and M550 which are currently in production.

As for the others: Intel 730, SanDisk Extreme II/Extreme Pro are all safe bets.

My personal T61 runs an Intel 730 240GB. The FrankenPad - which is also based on a T61p board - sports a 512GB version of Crucial M4. Never had a problem with either/or, knock wood.

Get yourself a Samsung 840 EVO or PRO drive.

Enjoy SSD goodness in your machine.

They are a few bucks more and for good reason. They are consistently ranked near the top of benchmarks and user reviews. Because they are awesome drives. I picked up a 250GB EVO drive for about $150 about 6 months ago or so. Below is the exact drive I am using:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147248

Runs very fast in my T410 which is SATA2. It will run even faster in a SATA3 machine. Yes, I know your T61 is limited to SATA2 with Middleton's BIOS.

Buy a real SSD and move on. I know some people state that Intel SSD's are good, but IME I have heard more stories like yours as vs. positive reviews. Of course YMMV. That being said, poor user reviews of the Samsung 840 and 850 lines are rare.