Intel 530 or Samsung 840 EVO for T61?

[LemarAntwanJackson]

Anyone install either of these SSDs in their T61? Can you comment on compatibility. I use the Samsung in my x201 and have been extremely happy with it but it doesn't come with the spacer like the Intel SSD's do. Also, have some concerns about Intel's use of the Sandforce Controller and past issues as well as hardware encryption. None of these are problems with the Samsung but its also selling at a higher price point than I would like for revamping an old notebook like my T61. I want it to be a highly functional spare given its weight doesn't make it very mobile for everyday use.

[dr_st]

I actually had a chance to compare the 480GB 530 and the 500GB 840 EVO, and the latter produced better write speeds (pretty equal read speeds). Not sure how other sizes would compare.

There are several factors to consider:

1) Larger SSDs tend to be faster than smaller ones.
2) The Intel 530, like most drives on the market uses medium-speed MLC (2-bit) flash. The EVO 840 uses a slower TLC (3-bit) flash, with a fast SLC (1-bit) cache. The 120/250GB models have 3GB cache, 512GB has 6GB and each subsequent model adds 3GB cache (although you are probably not considering them anyways, and it doesn't make sense for such an old laptop).

This means that for short write operations, while the SLC cache is used, the EVO is going to be very fast, faster than most drives out there. Once the cache is exhausted, its speeds will drop significantly. Although looking at the benchmarks of the Intel 530, the EVO still seems to beat it, even when it drops to slow outside-of-cache write speeds.

[LemarAntwanJackson]

Wow, that's a lot of testing and comparison you have done. I can only afford the 250GB models. I basically due spreadsheet work, typical MSFT Office Suite things and research using the Internet.

Which would you choose among the 530 and EVO?

[Cigarguy]

In a T61, either drive will saturate the SATA II line. If you have not done so, flash Middleton's BIOS. As for picking between the two I'd chose the cheapest one. Some other good ones to look for are made by Crucial, Sandisk, Kingston HyperX series, and Plextor.

[ajkula66]

My advice would be: neither.

Depending on what you want to spend, top choices would be (cheaper to more expensive) : Crucial MX100, Intel 730 and Sandisk Extreme II or Extreme Pro.

[GACrabill]

Which would you choose among the 530 and EVO?

As for picking between the two I'd chose the cheapest one.

For your usage (of an older T61), I would chose the Samsung 840 EVO. If you are happy with your current EVO and you like the Samsung Magician product, then it would be a good choice.

The less expensive Crucial MX100 is also a good choice, though I would be very tempted by the Crucial M550.

The comparisons at the site below do not include a 240GB Intel 530 (maybe not enough were purchased when their prices were a 33% premium over comparable models).

I like large samplings of user performance comparisons (be sure to read the Conclusions paragraphs) :
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Sa ... 1594vs2317 Samsung-840-Evo-250GB-vs-Crucial-MX100-256GB
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Sa ... 1594vs2031 Samsung-840-Evo-250GB-vs-Intel-730-Series-240GB
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Sa ... 1594vs1545 Samsung-840-Evo-250GB-vs-SanDisk-Extreme-II-240GB
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Sa ... 1594vs2356 Samsung-840-Evo-250GB-vs-SanDisk-Extreme-Pro-240GB
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Cr ... 2317vs2000 Crucial-MX100-256GB-vs-Crucial-M550-256GB

Just in case :
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Sa ... 1886vs1934 Samsung-840-Evo-120GB-vs-Intel-530-Series-120GB

And last but not least, the "Best value for money" chart :
(The 256GB Crucial M550, the 250GB Samsung 840 Evo, and the 256GB Crucial MX100 are three of the top six)
http://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Explore/Best-Value/10

[LemarAntwanJackson]

Thanks much, what I see are some negative reviews of the 530 on a T440. I have a T61 and realize it has a completely different system board but the comments about BSODs alarm me. Also, saw some negative comments on the M100 for SATA 1 systems but they are Apple notebooks. The M100 is about $20 cheaper than the EVO. I feel like I'm getting older technology with the EVO but its been flawless for me on my x201. Still undecided.

[GACrabill]

The M100 is about $20 cheaper than the EVO. I feel like I'm getting older technology with the EVO but its been flawless for me on my x201. Still undecided.

The Samsung 840 EVO 250GB will be $109.99 at Newegg on Black Friday.
(http://slickdeals.net/blackfriday/store ... cans/15338)

If you read the SanDisk Ultra II review at AnandTech.com, you may come to the conclusion that Samsung may be two years ahead of the other manufacturers that are just now delivering TLC nand in their SSDs. And Samsung has the Magician software and RAPID mode which no one else comes close to. You may also want to read the Samsung 850 Pro review at AnandTech.com ... the first 3D nand SSD product (how long will it be before Crucial and SanDisk deliver a 3D nand SSD?).

If you conclude that Samsung is ahead of everyone else due to their unique manufacturing position, then the 840 EVO may still be better today as an 'older' product than most of the other manufacturer's newest product.

[dr_st]

TLC is not, strictly-speaking, a good thing.

It's slower, less reliable flash. They use it because it's cheaper. To compensate for its inferiority, they use the SLC cache, which is a great idea, but comes short during long write sequences, and some clever algorithms, which sometimes fail (hence the recently-corrected old file read speed bug).

RAPID is just a cache utility built into their proprietary software. You can use generic caching applications (like PrimoCache) that work with any drive and deliver much higher speed boosts than Rapid.

The EVO is still a good product, IMO, in its price category, despite whatever some folks here think about it. But I wouldn't say Samsung is necessarily so much ahead of the pack. The MX100 gives the EVO a heck of a run for its money, and in some scenarios beats it fair and square.

[ajkula66]

If you read the SanDisk Ultra II review at AnandTech.com, you may come to the conclusion that Samsung may be two years ahead of the other manufacturers that are just now delivering TLC nand in their SSDs. And Samsung has the Magician software and RAPID mode which no one else comes close to. You may also want to read the Samsung 850 Pro review at AnandTech.com ... the first 3D nand SSD product (how long will it be before Crucial and SanDisk deliver a 3D nand SSD?).

We're not talking about the 850 Pro here, just in case you haven't noticed. Which is far more expensive than any of the drives previously mentioned.

As for TLC...let's face it: SLC>MLC>TLC when it comes to performance. No ifs ands or buts there.

If you conclude that Samsung is ahead of everyone else due to their unique manufacturing position, then the 840 EVO may still be better today as an 'older' product than most of the other manufacturer's newest product.

Huh...850 Pro does sound intriguing...but 840 EVO is a very different animal, and Samsung has had quite a few issues with it...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1512915/read ... t_22842513

http://www.overclock.net/t/1507897/sams ... -the-drive

The issue is *real* and has been confirmed from a large number of users all over the web. Samsung did issue a firmware update to address this problem, BUT there are reports if the problem coming back after the FW has been upgraded...

EVO is - and has always been - an entry level drive using dubious TLC technology. Its consistency - Samsung's known weakest point prior to 850 Pro - has *always* been abysmal.

[dr_st]

Huh...850 Pro does does intriguing...but 840 EVO is a very different animal, and Samsung has had quite a few issues with it...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1512915/read ... t_22842513

http://www.overclock.net/t/1507897/sams ... -the-drive

The issue is *real* and has been confirmed from a large number of users all over the web. Samsung did issue a firmware update to address this problem, BUT there are reports if the problem coming back after the FW has been upgraded...

Aren't both these threads the same issue, though? Which has been addressed? And have you seen actual reports of the issue coming back? I haven't. In fact, I would think not enough time for it to resurface, even if the "fix" did nothing but simply rewrite all the data. Because it's barely been a month since the release was out, so the oldest files, even if you applied it immediately, would be barely a month old...

In any case, at the moment the last post in the first thread you linked shows one user who followed up on a weekly basis, and saw no performance degradation whatsoever:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1512915/read ... t_23177785

[ajkula66]

And have you seen actual reports of the issue coming back? I haven't.

Check this thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/solid-s ... mx100.html

And specifically the post by Ferris23 in which he states:

the EVO fix didn't help much, only temporarily, but the issue came back again....never with the mSATA verison of the EVO 840 though

Not for nothing...with Intel 730 which is one heck of a consistent-performing drive (while definitely not being the fastest one) under $200 for a 480GB version, and barely above $100 for a 240GB model, why would anyone take a chance with EVO? Especially on a SATA II system...

My $0.02 only...

[dr_st]

Check this thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/solid-s ... mx100.html

And specifically the post by Ferris23 in which he states:

the EVO fix didn't help much, only temporarily, but the issue came back again....never with the mSATA verison of the EVO 840 though

Thanks for the link, and it's definitely something to watch for. However, in this particular case, with a single user, which presented no numbers/evidence whatsoever, it is even impossible to deduce whether he was suffering from the same issue, and what he did to fix it, and what he means by "the problem came back". As he testifies, he noticed no performance issues with the mSATA EVO, even though it is known to suffer from the same algorithmic flaw.

All in all, IMO, not a very credible source.

Not for nothing...with Intel 730 which is one heck of a consistent-performing drive (while definitely not being the fastest one) under $200 for a 480GB version, and barely above $100 for a 240GB model, why would anyone take a chance with EVO? Especially on a SATA II system...

That's a totally valid point, and given the current prices, I fully agree.

[ajkula66]

All in all, IMO, not a very credible source.

I understand your position here and am not disagreeing with it in principle. I am, however, intent on watching closely how well Samsung does - or does not - do with the new technology seen in 850 Pro. As for standard 840 and EVO, my mind is made up: not worth it at *any* price point, just like SandForce-based drives. But that's me...

The old 470/810 and 830 were fabulous drives for their era. It wasn't until Samsung went TLC that I started barking at their solid-state offerings...

I will be purchasing a 480/512GB SSD in the near future and am waiting to see what comes down the pipe...right now, Intel 730 looks like the winner...

[LemarAntwanJackson]

Well I made a decision on Saturday as I really needed to put my T61 back into production and that meant getting a SSD. I bought the 840 EVO again. Paid $119.99 at Best Buy which is the same price Amazon charges as of this weekend. Am aware of some of the pros and cons but certainly not at the level of you experts. Basically, I had one for a year now and its been a workhorse used almost 16 hours per day and heavily too but with MSFT Office Apps. My PC is how I make my bread and butter and just anecdotally I read about BSODs with the MX100, the 530 and lingering SandForce issues as well as the 730 not actually being made by Intel and being slow. Of course I learned about the EVO issues but in my year of use so far on my other notebook its been flawless.

Implementation of hardware encryption on the other SSDs appeared fuzzy at least through reading about it. It's clear cut on the EVO on ways to implement it and if I recall correctly I even tested it with BART PE and it was working. That is another key factor for my decision which may help others.

Seems they will have the PRO on sale for about $150 for 250GB on BlackFriday. That's not a bad deal. Wish I had waited but with the T61 I'm limited to SATAII at best and if I ever upgrade to a SATAIII notebook, I'm sure price points will come down again.

[LemarAntwanJackson]

By the way what does the Intel Matrix Storage Driver do? Do I need this as its an optional update per Lenovo System Updates?
I have an Intel Turbo Memory card on my T61 and disabled it. Is that just as good as removing it physically? I did a clean install of W7 64 BIT and didn't install any Turbo Memory drivers as a Google search suggested Turbo Memory would bog down the SSD's performance.

I'm still on SATA I an it seems a huge improvement over the original HDD.

[ajkula66]

Is that just as good as removing it physically?

Remove it altogether...I would anyway.

I'm still on SATA I

Why?

as well as the 730 not actually being made by Intel

Where did you get this from, BTW?

[LemarAntwanJackson]

Is that just as good as removing it physically?

Remove it altogether...I would anyway.

I'm still on SATA I

Why?

as well as the 730 not actually being made by Intel

Where did you get this from, BTW?

In due time I will flash to the Middleton BIOS. On #3, its what I read. I didn't save the details nor recall the source. Its branded Intel but not made by Intel.

[LemarAntwanJackson]

I might as well ask here. Regarding my old HDD, I had a password on it and also BitLocker with an extra PIN. Do I need to remove the PW from the BIOS for future use? I still have the OS with data on it and may need to occasionally plug it in for use. I don't want to not be able to use it if I happen to put a different PW on the SSD. OR will using the same PW do the job?

[ajkula66]

On #3, its what I read. I didn't save the details nor recall the source. Its branded Intel but not made by Intel.

I'd *love* to see the source since I've read a lot about these drives and have never found anything along those lines...

Do I need to remove the PW from the BIOS for future use?

HDD password - if that's what you're referring to - stays on the drive, and not in the machine's BIOS. You should be able to set the new password for your SSD without any problem.