T61p and Advanced Dock - new HDD not recognized

[JLLBVS]

Hi,
Last week, I received a brand new Thinkpad Advanced Dock for my (2008) Thinkpad T61p (6460-D8G - 15.4" wide - RAM 4 GB). OS : Windows XP SP3, which will be, later this year, upgraded to Win 7 in a new 500 GB disk which will replace the 160 GB.

I planned to install a 2nd HDD in the Advanced Dock bay (2.5 Seagate Mementus 7200.4 750 GB).
I found a HDD caddy for it (seems to be a 26R9246, but not genuine). I installed the 750 GB Seagate in this caddy, and placed it first in the T61p Ultrabay device, where it was correctly initialized and formatted (NTFS).

But, when installed in the Advanced Dock bay, the Seagate 750 GB HDD was not recognized by the system.
Of course, I tested first the Dock. For this, I installed the CD-ROM drive in it.
With the CD-ROM drive in the Advanced Dock and the 750 GB HDD in the T61p Ultrabay, no problem : boot is OK, everything else is OK.

I need your help to identify the cause of this problem. I have two investigation paths :
(1) a setup BIOS configuration problem after the 2nd HDD installation (USB config ?)
(2) a problem due to this HDD caddy. I've read somewhere in the forum that there is a difference between the "original" Lenovo caddy and other models.

Of course, if you see another problem or solution, please explain it.
Any idea will be highly appreciated....

Many thanks and kind regards,
Jean-Louis

[TuuS]

I got the private message you sent me but cannot reply to you because you have your private messenger disabled.

[ajkula66]

Welcome to the forum!

Are you "seeing" the new drive under the Device Manager?

[JLLBVS]

Tuus,
sorry for that. The messenger is now enabled. You can post your answer.

Ajkula66,
I'll check that tomorrow and answer to you.

Thanks.
J.L.

[automobus]

2.5 Seagate Mementus 7200.4 750 G

I do not find evidence that Seagate marketed such model.

Inside ThinkPad Advanced Dock, a PATA bridge acts as ATA host to Ultrabay Enhanced bay, and wired to host ThinkPad by high-speed USB. IBM or Lenovo did a rather good job engineering it. However, off the top of my head, I do not recall reading any user's experience installing 'advanced format' HDD into Advanced Dock bay.

I suspect:
You are attempting to use an 'Advanced Format' device, which is rejected by bridge in Advanced Dock. Such problem is not physical, not electrical, not natural. When ATA host rejects ATA peripheral/attachment because it IDENTIFies as 'Advanced Format', is an artificial incompatibility, fault of a programmer. You might have found a bug in Advanced Dock, which is otherwise generally well-engineered.



(off-topic)
Fact: Majority of products, which contain a ATA storage to USB bridge chip, are crap. Either the microchips, the firmware (either external or internal ROM), the reference designs, the final designs, the user documentation, the software packed along, any or all of the preceding, usually contain bugs or errors. When it comes to firmware, trust Murphy's Law: programmers will hork it any way they possibly can.
(off-topic)
'Advanced Format' is an antifeature. It is not mere worthless marketing B.S.; it is harmful. It is a stupid solution to an artificial problem.
(off-topic)



edit add:

Word | Description | Value
106 | Physical sector size / Logical sector size | 6003H

If your ST9750420AS contains Seagate default firmware, then it does indeed report to host, truth about large sectors. The last nibble in word 106 expresses ATA sectors per physical sector (value of nibble is 3, 2³ = 8, physical sector size = 8 × 512 = 4096 octet). You can check what your specimen reports by using a program such as (Linux hdparm) or (smartmontools smartctl).

Years and years ago, when technology companies provided customer support, one might have requested a firmware which does not set word 106, and manufacturer might have happily served customer a tweaked firmware (or might publicly distribute a Drive Feature Tool). I have no doubt, some ST9750420AS in wild has word 106 clear zero, hence does not reveal truth about large sectors to host.

[JLLBVS]

Automobus,
"I do not find evidence that Seagate marketed such model."

"Mementus" was of course a typo. The exact designation is "Momentus" 7200 Drive 750GB - ST9750420AS

The Seagate file with all Mementos HDD, 5400 and 7200 rpm (US version) is here :
http://www.seagate.com/files/www-conten ... 1303us.pdf

What you wrote is highly interesting. This "Advanced Format" problem is obviously a new investigation path for me. And, I fear, not a minor one.
When ordering this HD drive, my purpose was to have a 7200 RPM, high-capacity disk. (And I ordered too, maybe, another problem).
I saw nowhere this incompatibility between the Thinkpad Advanced Dock and a 4096 bytes-per-sector drive. And, to be honest, it was not an important feature I pointed out when buying it.
My T61p is running Windows XP SP3, and, as I wrote earlier, I intend to install Windows 7 when all hardware problems will be solved.
I don't know if 4K Native Disks have been taken into account in Win7. Maybe the OS upgrade is a solution. If not, and if the Advanced Format is the cause of all this, I'll have to find another disk.

Thanks for your help.

[JLLBVS]

Hi erverybody,
This saturday morning, I tried a "hot plug" of my 750 GB Seagate (which had already been correctly initialized and formatted in the T61p Ultrabay device) in the Advanced Dock, using the same non-genuine caddy.
And... the HDD was perfectly recognized by Windows XP SP3, and its 4 x 174 GB volumes (M to P) were correctly displayed.
I don't understand, as I have done nothing else than hot plugging the HDD !
I hate when I don't understand what happens, even when it works (especially when it works).
Need some help, just for not going crazy...

[JLLBVS]

Hi,
The fog thickens...
As I wrote yesterday, when Win XP has started, the 750 GB HDD in the Advanced Dock bay was recognized. OK.
BUT...
After powering off the T61p and station, when this morning I started on a cold boot : frozen screen.
If I press the F1 function, I can't enter in the BIOS. Frozen screen too.

Power off. Then I remove the HDD and its caddy. Cold boot : everything starts correctly.
BIOS access : No problem. And when in the BIOS, the HDD1 (Seagate 750 GB) is displayed in the startup list !!
I quit the BIOS and restart Windows.
Once Windows has started, I make a hot plug, and the Seagate HDD logical drives are listed in the control panel.

HELP !!!

[JLLBVS]

Well... two Days ago...
Nobody has an idea ?
Tell me that's the curse of the pharaohs, a spell put by a Linux witch, alcohol abuse... something... I feel alone...

[axur-delmeria]

This sounds like an issue with the caddy. It's probably not fully compatible with the 750GB HDD.

Have you tried plugging the 750GB HDD directly to the laptop?

[JLLBVS]

As I wrote initially, I installed the 750 GB Seagate in the caddy, and placed it first in the T61p Ultrabay device, where it was correctly initialized and formatted (NTFS).
If only the caddy was faulty, it would not be recognized when hot-plugging it in Windows XP.

[axur-delmeria]

Can you post a screencap of Device Manager with "View by Device Connection" set and the 750GB HDD inside the Dock's Ultrabay and detected and properly working?

I'm trying to figure out if the Advanced Dock's Ultrabay is directly connected to the ICH8 southbridge or through a separate IDE controller.

[JLLBVS]

Hi,
a long silence.
I replaced the HDD caddy of the Advanced Dock with a 26R9246 genuine caddy.
And the T61p boots correctly, the 750 GB is perfectly recognized by Windows XP. Everything is OK.

I have another problem, which IMO has no relation with the Advanced Dock HDD, as it occurs even when the laptop is disconnected from the Dock :
The T61p reboots randomly after functioning about 10 minutes.
It occurs when running on battery and on sector, and on sector with battery removed. I tried it because the battery was a brand new Lenovo 9 elements.
Maybe an overheating problem, and a fan misfunction (clogged with dust ?)
I will proceed to some diagnostics.
And I was very unlucky : it happened for the first time when I was updating my smartphone's firmware : my smartphone is out of use.
I have a very low morale since yesterday...
Kind regards.
Jean-Louis

[automobus]

That is good news. JLLBVS, please dismantle both caddies, and take note of bridge chip markings. Does genuine Lenovo ThinkPad part contain Marvell 88SA8040? Does generic aftermarket part contain Sunplus SATALink SPIF223A?

when I was updating my smartphone's firmware : my smartphone is out of use

You have my empathy. When it comes to firmware, trust Murphy's Law: programmers will hork it any way they possibly can.