Thinkpads Forum

Would a usb3 express card in a T61 yield usb3 speeds, or would it be throttled back to usb2?
Thanks

Assuming your T61 has an ExpressCard slot (not all of them do), then yes - the card will work well, at USB3 speeds.

Good to know, thanks.

More precisely - PCIe x1 can do 2500Mbps, maximum of USB3.0 is 5000Mbps, but 2500 is still 5x fater than USB 2.0 480 Mbps.

Yep, especially considering that no USB device can in practice reach anything remotely close to the theoretical limit.

It will be slower than in PCIe 2.0 systems, yes, but as you say, much faster than USB 2.0.

On a T60, Express card USB 3.0 is about twice as fast as the native USB 2.0 ports. In theory it should be a bit faster but it is still an improvement. Considering that my eSata, USB 3.0 combo card cost around $12, it was definitely worth it. Speeds might be better on a T61.

I put a USB 3.0 + eSATA ExpressCard/54 interface into my Z61p (T60p) and plugged in a 500GB 2.5" SATA drive externally via the eSATA port. I only achieved speeds of 50MB/s but I cannot remember if this was reading or writing. So I do not hold out much hope for when I plug in an actual external USB 3.0 drive!

Speeds for copying a 17gb file from a USB 3.0 external drive to a T60 with an internal 320gb 7200 rpm WD Scorpio Black drive are a steady 32mb/s with the native USB 2.0 port and an average speed of 72mb/s with the USB 3.0/eSata expresscard. The speed dropped as low as 60mb/s and got as high as 102mb/s.

Such card is working well for me in T61P. Unbootable although.

You will be limited in your max sustained data transfer speed by the devices on both ends.
While SATA1 is faster than USB2, how fast can the drives read or write that data?
If you have a 7000rpm internal drive, and a 5000rpm external drive, you will cap the data transfer rate to the slower external drive.
Or in the reverse, a 5000rpm internal drive and a 7000rpm external drive, you are limited by the slower internal drive.
To make max data transfer, you need BOTH a 7000rpm internal drive AND a 7000rpm external drive.

Note that for simplicity, this ignores the effect of recording density when using LARGE capacity drives.

How much data do you have to transfer.
- A little, why bother.
- A LOT, then it could make a significant time reduction.
But even so, if you copy overnight, if it took 6 hours vs. 3 makes no real difference, while you are sleeping.

But note that in observing my data copying, many times the data transfer speed is way down, because of all the overhead of dealing with MANY small files. I only get max speed when I am copying LARGE files.

Having said that, at the low prices that I am seeing for a USB3 Express Card (many less than $20), the question almost becomes "why not."

It is a similar question for ethernet Gigabit PC Cards, IF you transfer data between computers or to/from a NAS device. 10/100baseT is maxed at 100Mb/s = 10MB/s which is not even close to the max of USB2 of 48MB/s. Gigabit ethernet raises the network speed to 100MB/s. I am currently converting my home network from 10/100 to Gigabit level.

I agree with all you have said and going the Gigabit Ethernet route is well worth it. Doing this to my whole setup has been the most significant speed upgrade, easily out performing my other methods like USB 3.0. The 50MB/s I got from my own ExpressCard/54 USB 3.0 + eSATA interface was between two 7200rpm 2.5" hard drives on my Z61p C2D T7600 3GB laptop. However when I am using Gigabit LAN I usually achieve full network speeds or near. The worst method of all at the moment is WiFi, where even being a metre away gives appalling speeds that a 100Mbit LAN would beat easily! As you say though, the price of a ExpressCard/54 interface is trivial so why not?

I just bought a Cheapo Thinkpad T61 (765912U). How can I check whether it has an express card? (before it's delivered)

I'd love to add USB3 to it as I intend to use it as my download server.

Click the MTM link at the top of this page, then enter your Machine Type Model (7659-12U).

If either "Smart Card Reader" or "4-in-1 Memory Reader" is mentioned in the specs, it means that there's no Expresscard slot.

Apparently, the MTM is not very reliable in this regard. It does not mention "smart card", but according to the Ltwbook, this model does in fact have a smart card reader.

dr_st wrote:Apparently, the MTM is not very reliable in this regard. It does not mention "smart card", but according to the Ltwbook, this model does in fact have a smart card reader.

Perhaps I've done a premature celebration. I'll just wait for the machine to reach me and then go about planning any improvement actions.

axur-delmeria wrote:Click the MTM link at the top of this page, then enter your Machine Type Model (7659-12U).

If either "Smart Card Reader" or "4-in-1 Memory Reader" is mentioned in the specs, it means that there's no Expresscard slot.

Thanks for this. I should have learnt about the MTM ability in all these years of lurking, but happy to know about it now.


Edit: Where can I find archived/old versions of the ltwbook?

http://psref.lenovo.com/WithdrawnBook

Specifically,
http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/ltwbook_2013.pdf

dr_st wrote:http://psref.lenovo.com/WithdrawnBook

Specifically,
http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/ltwbook_2013.pdf

Wunderbar! Thanks much

In that older book, it says some 7659 models have smart card readers or express card or a PC card slot.

I think I'll just have to receive the darn machine to really know. I remember when I had a new T61p back in the day it had two slots - A PC Card slot and a Smart Card reader. Perhaps someting like that could be there.

I paid 49$ for the machine. If I can't have USB3, I'll just upgrade the internal HD and use USB for slower backup.

If yours has a smart card reader/cage, then you can replace it with an express card/cage.
Look on eBay for "lenovo 42x3828".
These are all the same and fit in T61/T400/T500 and others.
You'll also need to remove the slot in front of that PCMCIA cage and replace it with a 'flap'.
To do that you'll have to take the WHOLE machine apart though.

RealBlackStuff wrote:If yours has a smart card reader/cage, then you can replace it with an express card/cage.
Look on eBay for "lenovo 42x3828".
These are all the same and fit in T61/T400/T500 and others.
You'll also need to remove the slot in front of that PCMCIA cage and replace it with a 'flap'.
To do that you'll have to take the WHOLE machine apart though.

That's good info. Thanks. Unfortunately, I Haven't touched the internals of a laptop in a decade - So about bloody time to try it out.

Looks like I'll be dealing with a different beast altogether now though. The T61 didn't come through and so ordered a R400 (7440-CN1) instead that lacks a hard disk. Still pretty much the same issue of USB3 upgradation and adding a Hard Disk and upgrading as many parts as possible at a sensible cost.

This time around, I'll start a new thread on it once I actually receive the laptop in hand.

Shredder11 wrote:I put a USB 3.0 + eSATA ExpressCard/54 interface into my Z61p (T60p) and plugged in a 500GB 2.5" SATA drive externally via the eSATA port. I only achieved speeds of 50MB/s but I cannot remember if this was reading or writing. So I do not hold out much hope for when I plug in an actual external USB 3.0 drive!

Updating my own post because not long after this I unplugged the slow 2.5" drive in a caddy, and replaced it with a Toshiba Canvio 2TB USB 3.0 external drive and this gives a sustained 125MB/s or more. Now compared with USB 2.0 where I normally get around 25MB/s on any of my computers, I think the ExpressCard USB 3.0 + eSATA adapter is well worth having on the T60 / Z61p ranges.

You should try an SSD and then use a benchmark program to test out the
speed difference since the drive itself is a bottleneck.

I just proved to myself that I need to get a USB3 express card for my T61.
I am moving data between computers; T61 (USB2) -> external USB3 drive -> Dell Optiplex (USB3)
From the T61 to the external drive, I rarely get better than 20MB/s.
From the external drive to the Dell, I get up to 150MB/s transfer. And even when it isn't at the max rate, I'm between 70-100MB/s. WAY WAY faster than the USB2 rate.

Even with the choke point of the SATA1 interface and the express card limit, I will be doing much better than the USB2 rate.