T61 buying advice on another project build

[Hans Gruber]

I have long planned to restore my T43p. I need a Win XP system for one of my NEC Superscript 1400 laser printer. They never made drivers for Vista or Win 7 for that NEC model and I have a couple of toner cartridges left over.

I have looked at the T60 and T61 models. Which screen size is best 14" or 15" not just in screen size but layout. The T60/61 would be a permanent fixture on my workbench. Questions I have regarding adding a wireless N nic card. Are they interchangeable with current NIC card form factors. Has the NIC card slot changed since the T61 to say T420 series.

I would probably run a 2.5" SSD between 32GB and 128GB. Does the T61 natively support SATA II or would I need a bios mod? I forget how much memory Win XP can detect. If it's 2gb of memory or 4gb of memory or if it's 2.5GB of memory. That is how long it has been since I had an XP machine. I still have a full Retail copy of XP Pro. I forget how many GB HDD XP can detect.

My question, 2GB ram or 4GB setup.

[theterminator93]

Having a 15" T43p and a 14.1" T60 I can't really say I prefer one form factor over the other, but if you're using your machine as a "permanent fixture" you may want the 15" T60 with an IPS screen. Maybe a good candidate for a frankenpad mod so you can get the newer Penryn CPUs.

The wireless card on the T6x is a full length PCI-e card, on the newer laptops it's half size (not sure starting when, at least T410 and newer). You can use the shorter card in the longer slot, but you need to find a way to secure it since the screw holes are in the wrong place.

II believe the T61 chipset supports SATA-II but not natively, you'd need a Middleton BIOS to enable it. XP x86 can use something like 3.25 or 3.5 GB RAM max. XP can see a max. partition of 2TB, but you can have multiple partitions that big.

I'd say go for 4GB and let the OS use as much as it can.

[brchan]

You will need to apply Middleton's BIOS to enable SATA II speeds on T61s. There are Serial + Parallel ultrabay adapters that work in T6* models, if you are interested.

Remember that the youngest T61 is about 7 years old, so don't expect to do much number crunching or CAD, even with the dedicated gpu models. Also, you may be dissapointed with the build quality. Snapping hinges, creaking palmrests, wobbly hinges, and breaking frames on the 15.4" models are possibilities. T60 models have the closest QC to most IBM era Thinkpads, but can be slower by a good deal (though still faster than a T43).

Unless you are making a frankenpad, I would just get a T420 or W520 (depending on your needs) and call it a day. There is also talk about creating a 'retro' Thinkpad, which may or may not happen.

[ajkula66]

I have long planned to restore my T43p.

What's stopping you from doing so?

Are they interchangeable with current NIC card form factors. Has the NIC card slot changed since the T61 to say T420 series.

You need a full-size to half size adapter which is a couple of bucks on ebay, but if you're ok with N network, the best card in my experience is Atheros 9380 which is mostly available in full-size.

Does the T61 natively support SATA II or would I need a bios mod?

You need a BIOS mod.

My question, 2GB ram or 4GB setup.

4GB where 3 will be usable.

[Hans Gruber]

I was looking on Ebay. Here is a T43 but it appears to have a bios password. Just an educated guess. I have never encountered a bios password myself. It's $36 with shipping. Any thoughts on this listing? It has a picture of a lock. I am looking for something cheap for my T43p to transfer part to get my T43 working again.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-thinkpad-T4 ... 41984f70e9

I am still looking at the T60/61 models simply for a project.

[ajkula66]

First and foremost, what is wrong with your T43p to begin with? Is it a 14" or 15" unit?

Unless you know how to remove the password yourself, there's no point in buying that low-end T43 that you've linked, IMO.

As for your T60/61 project(s), what size are you looking for?

[Hans Gruber]

That was what I was asking about the T61 series. What is better 14" or 15"? My T43p is low end and that is why I have not spent much time trying to fix it. I got a HDD error and reformatted my HD years ago. I tried to add a Seagate drive and got the 2010 error even though the Seagate drive was on the approved list. Then I couldn't get into my bios and people asssumed it was a failed southbridge chip. My access IBM button doesn't work because I wiped my drive. F1 and F12 don't work but on a blue moon, it does work and I can get into my bios. I replaced the bios battery about a year ago.

Is there anything I can do to shock the system or do a hard reset of my T43?

[RealBlackStuff]

You talk about a T43 and a T43p, which one is it?
What's the TYPE xxxx-yyy from the bottom-sticker?

T43/p needs 32-bit OS.
There is a modded BIOS which takes care of Errors 2010 and 1802.

T60/p with Core Duo (T2400/T2500/T2600) needs 32-bit OS.
T60/p with Core 2 Duo (T5500/T5600/T7200/T7400/T7600) can use 32-bit or 64-bit OS.
T60/p can take max. 4GB RAM, of which only 3GB is usable.

T61/p can use 32- or 64-bit OS.
With Middleton BIOS you get SATA II and a few other goodies.
Takes up to 8GB RAM.

As mentioned before: both T60 and T61 can take an Ultrabay adapter with Parallel/Serial ports.

14.1" are XGA or SXGA+
14.1" WS are WXGA or WSXGA+
15" are XGA or SXGA+ or UXGA. Both SXGA+ and UXGA are IPS.
15.4" WS are WXGA or WSXGA+ or WUXGA.

[Hans Gruber]

My T43p is 1875-D6U

[RealBlackStuff]

Stop calling it a T43p!
All T43p models have ATI FireGL graphics, yours has not!

Yours is 'just' an ordinary T43 with Intel graphics.
Ex factory yours looked like this:
T43 (1875-D6U)
P M 740(1.7GHz), 256MB RAM, 40GB 5400rpm HD, 14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD, Intel 900, CDRW/DVD, Intel 802.11abg wireless(MPCI), Modem(CDC), 1Gb Ethernet(LOM), Secure Chip, Fingerprint Reader, 6c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Use the MTM link at the top of this page to check any ThinkPad's specs.

[Hans Gruber]

Stop calling it a T43p!
All T43p models have ATI FireGL graphics, yours has not!

Yours is 'just' an ordinary T43 with Intel graphics.
Ex factory yours looked like this:
T43 (1875-D6U)
P M 740(1.7GHz), 256MB RAM, 40GB 5400rpm HD, 14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD, Intel 900, CDRW/DVD, Intel 802.11abg wireless(MPCI), Modem(CDC), 1Gb Ethernet(LOM), Secure Chip, Fingerprint Reader, 6c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

Use the MTM link at the top of this page to check any ThinkPad's specs.

I now realize my T43 is not a T43p but it does have a finger print reader.

[ajkula66]

I now realize my T43 is not a T43p but it does have a finger print reader.

Unlike previous T4x series models, every single T43/p is capable of utilizing a FPR if one is installed.

That being said, the machine in question is a rather low-end example. I'm not sure I'd bother fixing it, or just move to the last generation of "square" systems such as T60/p or T61/p if you need to run XP.

Speaking of XP, it is fully supported on T410 machines - which you have a plethora of - and some of them shipped with it. I'm pretty sure I've got the recovery media for it somewhere...

Just a thought...

[Hans Gruber]

I already have a plethora of Microsoft OS. I have retail copies of Windows XP Pro, Windows Vista Ultimate, Windows 7 Home, Premium and Pro. I have a new T43 keyboard, a new 9 cell battery and 6 cell battery that is in good condition for my T43. I also have an ultra bay caddy for an additional hard drive and I have an additional hard drive. This is the only reason I have been looking to get another T43. Obviously I will get a T43p with ATI graphics and the high resolution screen.

The T61 is a project, that was why I started this thread. A fact finding mission so I would know what to look for in a T60/61 series.

[ajkula66]

Obviously I will get a T43p with ATI graphics and the high resolution screen.

If that's the case, I'd go for a 15" system. Either T43 with a 15"SXGA+ or a T43p with UXGA. Granted, you won't be able to use your 14" keyboard, but these systems - presuming you find one in good condition - had really, really nice IPS panels.

The T61 is a project, that was why I started this thread. A fact finding mission so I would know what to look for in a T60/61 series.

Well, let's start with the basics: what would be the size of the unit you are interested in?

T60 was available as 14" and 15" (4:3) and as 15.4" (16:10)

T61 came as 14" (4:3), 14" and 15.4" widescreen (16:10).

[Hans Gruber]

What is better to get a T60 or a T61 series? What is the best configuration, a 14" screen or a 15.4" screen? Did the T60 or T61 come with a wifi NIC card that includes the wireless N band? I am only planning on having one T60/61 series and I will run Win XP on it.

[ajkula66]

What is better to get a T60 or a T61 series?

T61 is definitely more future-proof.

What is the best configuration, a 14" screen or a 15.4" screen?

A matter of personal preference.

Did the T60 or T61 come with a wifi NIC card that includes the wireless N band? I am only planning on having one T60/61 series and I will run Win XP on it.

You can always upgrade the card to a "N" capable one, even if you don't want to apply the modded BIOS.

[Hans Gruber]

You mentioned the Atheros 9380 as a wireless N card being the best in your experience. Do you have a top 3 cards in the full or half size variant for wireless N.

Are the bios mods USB .ISO flash or CD based .iso flash mods? Basically are they real easy to do?

[ajkula66]

You mentioned the Atheros 9380 as a wireless N card being the best in your experience. Do you have a top 3 cards in the full or half size variant for wireless N.

It's a tough call. I've been sticking with these cards for a few years now, because they work the best in *my* environment, with the house layout as it is and the router that I have. There's no guarantee that you'd get the same results, although I have yet to hear anyone complaining about these cards.

If you don't feel like modding the BIOS, Lenovo's Atheros-based "n" card (42T0825, full size) is a pretty good choice for these machines.

You'll get a lot of recommendations for Intel 6200/6300 on this forum. Personally, I wasn't impressed with them. At all.

Are the bios mods USB .ISO flash or CD based .iso flash mods? Basically are they real easy to do?

I always flash both the Zender's (T60/p) and Middleton's (*61 series) BIOS from the CD. As easy it it gets.

My $0.02 only...

Good luck.

[Hans Gruber]

Should I get a T61 or T61p? Is there a difference other than fingerprint reader or do the T61p models all come with discrete graphics like in the T43p model?

[axur-delmeria]

I advise against getting any variant of the T61/T61p with discrete graphics because of the so-called nVidia plague.

[ajkula66]

Should I get a T61 or T61p? Is there a difference other than fingerprint reader or do the T61p models all come with discrete graphics like in the T43p model?

All the T6x units are capable of running a fingerprint reader.

T61p came with nVidia Quadro FX570M dedicated graphics card - 128MB in 14" and 256MB in 15.4" units - along with higher-resolution screens.

Unless you're intent on gaming on running video-intensive applications, a conventional T61 with Intel graphics is your safest bet.

[theterminator93]

I advise against getting any variant of the T61/T61p with discrete graphics because of the so-called nVidia plague.

You can get them with the nVidia chips, but only machines produced in 08/08 or later are known to be 'free' of the defect and are very hard to find because of that. That said, I've seen upwards of 50 or 60 T61s with nVidia chips and only about 6 of them are "safe" to use. Furthermore I need to add that none of them have yet shown signs of failure.

And they were all 14" WS units not suitable for FrankenPadding either.

[ajkula66]

You can get them with the nVidia chips, but only machines produced in 08/08 or later are known to be 'free' of the defect and are very hard to find because of that.

It's also for the fact that at that point T61/p generation was being phased out. The "youngest" nVidia-based system that I had ever seen was dated October of 2008, and the newest Intel-based machine was produced in January of 2009. Both of these were 15.4" systems. The conventional 4:3 14" machines were discontinued in the spring of 2008 and hence none of them sports a "safe" date.

That said, I've seen upwards of 50 or 60 T61s with nVidia chips and only about 6 of them are "safe" to use. Furthermore I need to add that none of them have yet shown signs of failure.

It really depends on what one is looking for...for office-based work, an Intel system is plenty and will survive just about anything that gets thrown at it, even with 4GB of RAM. I've picked up an Intel-based 14"WS machine here on the forum some time ago that I've since donated and yeah...that thing is on 24/7/365, without a hiccup. Granted, it will not run LOL but who cares...

[theterminator93]

That said, I've seen upwards of 50 or 60 T61s with nVidia chips and only about 6 of them are "safe" to use. Furthermore I need to add that none of them have yet shown signs of failure.

It really depends on what one is looking for...for office-based work, an Intel system is plenty and will survive just about anything that gets thrown at it, even with 4GB of RAM. I've picked up an Intel-based 14"WS machine here on the forum some time ago that I've since donated and yeah...that thing is on 24/7/365, without a hiccup. Granted, it will not run LOL but who cares...

Fortunately for me I've yet to experience total failure in any of my T61/p speicmens which all have defective chips (knock on wood). The FX570m motherboard from the system I bought new in 10/07 started crashing if I played certain newer games so I sourced and transplanted in a slightly newer native Penryn-supported motherboard on ebay with an early 2008 date code on the GPU. This board has been perfectly fine under all conditions, but I don't load it very heavily as often as I would have 5 or 6 years ago.

The original board I ended up installing in the chassis from a dead system I bought for parts for the wife to use if it was ever needed in an emergency while she was at vet school. Under any circumstances other than heavy gaming it's fine. Since she's home now and has access to any of the other computers in the house, I decided to use this machine as my Windows 10 test mule. I'm thinking about putting it back into the original chassis so the serial numbers etc. match up for sentimental purposes, then putting the better motherboard into the spare machine along with some lightly-used parts. For the purposes of having a more "like new" system for my collection.

I usually leave these systems on 24/7 (like you mentioned) and I've got a pretty aggressive TPFanControl .ini file, along with regular re-pasting and fan/heat sink cleanings. These machines never see temps over the mid-70s and idle no higher than mid 50s...

There would have been a time when I'd have paid handsomely for a defect-free 15.4" FX570m motherboard to transplant into my system. But now that I've gotten my hands on a handful of other, similarly/more capable machines... that interest has dwindled somewhat. Especially since it seems like my computing habits on these machines have mellowed out somewhat to give longer-term GPU longevity more favor. I just can't quite pull myself away from using it as my primary workstation laptop though. The real estate on that WUXGA screen is just too dog-gone convenient. Maybe if the retro system project brings something similar to this to the table, I may finally be able to retire this workhorse I've been using for the last 8 years...

[ajkula66]

The real estate on that WUXGA screen is just too dog-gone convenient.

Heck yes. I miss my T61p in this respect, although I'm not really complaining with 1600x1200 or 1680x1050 on our current systems...

Maybe if the retro system project brings something similar to this to the table, I may finally be able to retire this workhorse I've been using for the last 8 years...

I'm actively hoping for the very same thing, but am not holding my breath. If Macs had anything that remotely resembled a decent keyboard I would've jumped on the Retina ship a long time ago, glossy panel or not. However, their keyboards are beyond useless to me.

[Hans Gruber]

I got a T61 with a 14" widescreen comes with HDD and power supply. I get it sometime next week. I went through my old laptop collection and found a 2GB stick of DDR2 memory. The thing comes with 2GB so I am assuming it's a 1GB x 1GB layout and I will have at least 3GB of ram to begin with. It comes with a HDD but I am thinking of putting in a 128GB SSD.

Couple quick questions. Should I install Windows XP Pro, Windows Vista Ultimate or Windows 7 either Premium or Pro. Does the T61 support 64 bit OS in the Core 2 Duo architecture?

I know this thread has been a bit confusing because the T43/T43p was kind of merged in the thread several posts back. Does the T61 take the same Wifi cards as the T410 series? When was the switch from PCI Wifi 44pin to the Mini PCI-E cards? What series of Thinkpad did the change over in wifi interface cards occur? I know they have half size and full size wifi cards.

Also what is the fastest (model) processor I could upgrade to in the T61.

[ajkula66]

Couple quick questions. Should I install Windows XP Pro, Windows Vista Ultimate or Windows 7 either Premium or Pro.

Your call. If you're going to run a SSD, then W7 or newer.

Does the T61 support 64 bit OS in the Core 2 Duo architecture?

Yes, as does every other machine with C2D.

Does the T61 take the same Wifi cards as the T410 series? When was the switch from PCI Wifi 44pin to the Mini PCI-E cards? What series of Thinkpad did the change over in wifi interface cards occur? I know they have half size and full size wifi cards.

You'll need an adapter and modded BIOS. The change in size occurred between *00 and *10 platforms.

[theterminator93]

Strictly speaking, the T9500 is the highest it can support out-of-box, taking TDP into account. If your board isn't one of the Penryn boards, you'll get a thermal sensing error with that chip (but you can still boot). If you don't have Penryn support you can flash the BIOS or use a Merom T7700. There are mods for faster chips (see the 1066 FSB mod thread for info) as well.

[Hans Gruber]

Strictly speaking, the T9500 is the highest it can support out-of-box, taking TDP into account. If your board isn't one of the Penryn boards, you'll get a thermal sensing error with that chip (but you can still boot). If you don't have Penryn support you can flash the BIOS or use a Merom T7700. There are mods for faster chips (see the 1066 FSB mod thread for info) as well.

Terminator, the T7700 makes the most sense. There are T7700 chips with free shipping from Hong Kong from the $6-9 range on Ebay right now.

When I get the T61 I will be able to tell right away if it's a Mermon or Penryn chipset.

[ajkula66]

When I get the T61 I will be able to tell right away if it's a Mermon or Penryn chipset.

Date code is the key. Anything newer than January of 2008 will be a Penryn board.

With that said, I would suggest moving to a Penryn CPU - once you've applied Middleton's BIOS - anyway. They run cooler and a T8300 should cost about the same as T7700.