2503 Advanced Dock questions

[micrex22]

Hey folks,

The 2503 Advanced Dock has piqued my interest for the fact you can use a different graphics card with your antiquated T60 (probably the best bet would be something like a GT520 for compatibility and size reasons).

My question is, can you operate the internal LCD with the dock's GPU-- or is an external monitor required to use it?

[dr_st]

AFAIK, only an external monitor.

[micrex22]

I'm under the impression the individuals who have used these docks in greater depth are no longer active; I may have to purchase one just for investigation purposes.

I suppose theoretically if it's not possible to route the GPU to the internal display, one could torture themselves and build a T60 display to DVI adapter-- along with the necessary pass-through to keep the LED indicators functional.

At any rate, I want to see how the 2503 behaves when no external monitor is hooked up.

[Shredder11]

I also have this dock but have not got it working yet, although I have only had a few simple tries at this. There are other topics on this forum and some users have replied recently:

http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22358

http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=113724

My own dock and GPU cards are detailed in this post:

http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 70#p749134

[micrex22]

I also have this dock but have not got it working yet, although I have only had a few simple tries at this. There are other topics on this forum and some users have replied recently:

http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22358

http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=113724

My own dock and GPU cards are detailed in this post:

http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 70#p749134

What's funny is that the question of whether you could use the 2503's GPU with your internal LCD wasn't directly answered; it was hinted at that it would be terribly bizarre if the DOCK connector accommodated passthrough for the LCD and that generally only the onboard video is wired to the internal LCD. And as suspected most of this discussion occurred in 2006 / 2007. I would say there's a 90% chance of probability that this is not possible..

At any rate I think I'll just pick up a 2503 regardless just to experiment. If I could stick a matrox card in there capable of driving four monitors, it would be pretty neat.

Alternatively if someone wanted the ThinkPad keyboard and TrackPoint for their desktop, but didn't want an UltraNav or performing some crazy mods, they could use this dock and a T6x base with the monitor removed as the "keyboard" with the 2503 acting as the sole GPU.

[Kasm279]

You can only use the dock's video card on an external display. The only possible way I could think of using it on the internal display is with Nvidia cards and a ThinkPad with Intel graphics, as has been done on some Macbooks using a Thunderbolt enclosure. However, I don't know if this is possible with Windows, the 945/960 chipsets, or the Dock's architecture.

[QWERTY Andreas]

I have an advanced dock, 2503 with a Club3D AMD Radeon HD7750 low profile in it. I have only used it with T61Ps.

T61p with 2 GB RAM can boot in the dock. Haven't done any further testing.

T61p with 6 GB RAM have to boot, and afterwards be inserted into the dockingstation. Everything works fine then, it even supports undocking while powered on. Can be waken from sleep etc.

Some other observations:
The GPUs "blower plastic part" have to be removed for better cooling
The small fan can be turned off, without any real effect on the cooling
The fans spin up, when the GPU loaded - even ligth load. Both are loud, smallest is loudest.
Performance can be increased by disabling other HW in the computer from BIOS. Performance will be around 60% at best.

[Kasm279]

I forgot to mention something. If you have a PCIe card in the dock and want to hot eject it, the drivers for the card must support that. I tried a TV tuner that would not let me eject the machine (a T60p) without shutting it down.

[coolcat37]

Some other observations:
The GPUs "blower plastic part" have to be removed for better cooling

Could you elaborate on this please? Am I right you removed the blue part as seen here: http://i.imgur.com/CmcYlPC.png ? In other words you only removed the above plastic layer with the brand on it but kept whatever was underneath?
Or did you remove everything but the GPU's fan?

Did you have to remove a sticker which voids the warranty to achieve this? Is it possible to put that thing back on?

[QWERTY Andreas]

Some other observations:
The GPUs "blower plastic part" have to be removed for better cooling

Could you elaborate on this please? Am I right you removed the blue part as seen here: http://i.imgur.com/CmcYlPC.png ? In other words you only removed the above plastic layer with the brand on it but kept whatever was underneath?
Or did you remove everything but the GPU's fan?

Did you have to remove a sticker which voids the warranty to achieve this? Is it possible to put that thing back on?

The plastic surrounding the cooler have to be taken off, which is what you marked. If you keep it on, the GPU only have something like 2mm of clearance to air intake - and that is not enough. It will work, but there will be no airflow and quite some heat issues.

To remove the plastic you have to take off the whole cooler. Then remove the 4 screws holding the "blower part" on the heatsink. Then put the heatsink back on. This will void the warranty.

I don't think it is necessary if using a R7 250 LP

[coolcat37]

Performance can be increased by disabling other HW in the computer from BIOS. Performance will be around 60% at best.

Regarding performance increases, did you read this: http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu- ... #post77045 ?

Apparently it is possible to get X1E speeds by changing the speed of the LAN adaptor's to any other value as 1Gb/s

The plastic surrounding the cooler have to be taken off, which is what you marked. If you keep it on, the GPU only have something like 2mm of clearance to air intake - and that is not enough. It will work, but there will be no airflow and quite some heat issues.

To remove the plastic you have to take off the whole cooler. Then remove the 4 screws holding the "blower part" on the heatsink. Then put the heatsink back on. This will void the warranty.

I don't think it is necessary if using a R7 250 LP

I see. The R7 250 LP doesn't have that plastic cover, that's why you think it will work I presume. So next stop for me is the R7 250 LP then.

[QWERTY Andreas]

Performance can be increased by disabling other HW in the computer from BIOS. Performance will be around 60% at best.

Regarding performance increases, did you read this: http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu- ... #post77045 ?

Apparently it is possible to get X1E speeds by changing the speed of the LAN adaptor's to any other value as 1Gb/s
.[/quote]

I have tried to do it, but i cannot find the setting. Im using Windows 10, and 8.1 before

You can also reduce colormode to 16bit (neither possible in W10 or W8) to get even higher performance!

I see. The R7 250 LP doesn't have that plastic cover, that's why you think it will work I presume. So next stop for me is the R7 250 LP then.

That should work very well.. I have set the card to use -20% power in the AMD driver to make it run cooler, and more stable

[coolcat37]

Andreas, did you ever try using your 7750 with 8 GB of RAM?

Doesn't the card lose 20% of it's processing capabilities when set to use -20% of power in the AMD driver?

[QWERTY Andreas]

Andreas, did you ever try using your 7750 with 8 GB of RAM?

Doesn't the card lose 20% of it's processing capabilities when set to use -20% of power in the AMD driver?

I only have 6GB RAM, but it Works fine.

It sdoesn't Loose processing capabilities, since the core clock is the same. If you dont do it, the Card will have some thermal issues causing it to Loose performance

To use it i have to boot the laptop, then insert it into the dock. Cold boot doesnt Work, so i usually just keave it in standby.

[emeraldgirl08]

To use it i have to boot the laptop, then insert it into the dock.

This mirrors my experience with a T500 (w/4gb RAM) and the 2503 Advanced Dock (w/MSI HD 6570). Cold boots while docked would not work.

[coolcat37]

Well, the 250 LP is in there allright. Fits beautifully, a lot better than the VisionTek 7750 I tried.

Now, I am trying to figure out if there is sufficiently room between the plastic and the card.

Basically I can slide a credit card nicely up there. Fits comfortably, but that's it. No 2nd credit card or additional thick piece of paper or whatever.

emeraldgirl, you had pictures of your advanced dock with an credit card in there. Is this the norm we are aiming at? If a creditcard can be slid there, then there is sufficiently room for cooling? Is this correct?

Pic: http://i.imgur.com/vnGgoKZ.jpg

[emeraldgirl08]

Well, the 250 LP is in there allright. Fits beautifully, a lot better than the VisionTek 7750 I tried.

Now, I am trying to figure out if there is sufficiently room between the plastic and the card.

Basically I can slide a credit card nicely up there. Fits comfortably, but that's it. No 2nd credit card or additional thick piece of paper or whatever.

emeraldgirl, you had pictures of your advanced dock with an credit card in there. Is this the norm we are aiming at? If a creditcard can be slid there, then there is sufficiently room for cooling? Is this correct?

Pic: http://i.imgur.com/vnGgoKZ.jpg

Not sure about norm but the HD 6570 (for sale here in the forum...shameless promo ) I used is a low-profile card which may have helped in respect to fit. The cooling was fine however that darn PSU fan was terribly noisy once I began using the T500 (which I had docked to the 2503). The low-profile card as you can see in my pictures took up ~half the width of the PCI bay which in theory may be an advantage toward keeping that area cooler. YMMV due to factors such as ambient temps, make of video card, etc. I do not recall any problems with heat in my setup.

[QWERTY Andreas]

Well, the 250 LP is in there allright. Fits beautifully, a lot better than the VisionTek 7750 I tried.

Now, I am trying to figure out if there is sufficiently room between the plastic and the card.

Basically I can slide a credit card nicely up there. Fits comfortably, but that's it. No 2nd credit card or additional thick piece of paper or whatever.

emeraldgirl, you had pictures of your advanced dock with an credit card in there. Is this the norm we are aiming at? If a creditcard can be slid there, then there is sufficiently room for cooling? Is this correct?

Pic: http://i.imgur.com/vnGgoKZ.jpg

This is the same as my HD7750.

There should be enough room, since the fan can take air from inbetween the fins instead of the top of the Card.

You can try to make a run of 3Dmark 06 or firestrike to see wether its fine.

[n2ri]

the oldest laptop model that work with this is T60 prev models say not compatible in a few small manuals I found online (Lenovo has nothing even PDFs for this anymore). I own 2 old 701 and 2 of the old full size Docks similar to this but with built in speakers, a slot for extra HDD and 1 bay for like a CD player etc. also got the extra sockets you flip up to take the 701 plug plus plugs for many older TPs.
I thought the Advanced dock had 2 card slots not just 1. and its only for graphics card? I have a sound card on an old PC with surround sound, plus a TV video card I was hoping to use with my T61 and W500 TPs. I already have the port replicator strip and the advanced mini dock (which just adds parallel and serial ports to replicator. I wanted a dock with more options so I could use my old custom built PC stuff when docked.
also never saw if W520 or W700 series work on these as the dock was disc b4 they came out for some unknown reason.
anyone have a full manual PDF for the Advanced docking station? also need somebody familiar with the capabilities etc. cant figure why IBM would make a much more advanced dock over 20 years ago than 8 years ago. I have lots of long discontinued peripherals/accessories for my PC/laptop that wont work on new limited connections & operating systems. who care if not supported when parts are near free for them online etc. also older tech lasts longer/built better not China cheapO. also many people selling these without keys. how can we get keys for them or replace key switch with other?

[rkawakami]

While this is not an "official" list, ThinkWiki usually has accurate information: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkPad_Advanced_Dock

One PCI-Express slot which is limited in size (thicker video boards will not fit). My understanding is that it supports any type of PCI-Express card as long as it fits but don't quote me as I've never tried them.

As to other Thinkpads and docking stations: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/pd014572
ThinkWiki: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Docking_Solutions

Replacement keys can be ordered here if you have the proper ID number: https://shop.itxchange.com/OA_HTML/page ... n-keys.jsp
As far as swapping out the keyswitch, it might be possible but it may be more hassle than it's worth.

[Kasm279]

I have successfully used a TV tuner card in my Advance Dock and T60p. I could not hot-eject the system as the tuner's drivers did not support it. For reference, it was a TV Wonder 600, but any PCIe card should work if it fits, meets power requirements, and doesn't choke on the limited bandwidth of the single PCIe lane.

[Shredder11]

I am surprised nobody has put together a definitive post, on how to get this 2503 Advanced Dock working. A step by step guide on what to use and how to use it, plus what to avoid doing and also any small hints and tips to get around any issues. I bought mine in October 2013 and have not had it working with my Thinkpad Z61p, which is pretty much identical to the T60p and I know people have this working with the dock. The link below is a brief description of my setup:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 92#p749134

[n2ri]

I am surprised nobody has put together a definitive post, on how to get this 2503 Advanced Dock working. A step by step guide on what to use and how to use it, plus what to avoid doing and also any small hints and tips to get around any issues. I bought mine in October 2013 and have not had it working with my Thinkpad Z61p, which is pretty much identical to the T60p and I know people have this working with the dock. The link below is a brief description of my setup:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 92#p749134

agreed. I have tons more info/documents on my old Dock II units than this newer do all dock. people that really use laptops need such a dock station as a home base for syncs, testing of not just laptops but add-ons too. the old Dock II had way more adaptability and use at the time than this much newer yet already discontinued version. Dock II had great built in stereo speakers so why dont the 2503 have built in soround sound with at least 5 speaker jacks etc?

and 2 card slots like the Dock II had, plus Dock II had a spare HDD bay with 3 types of connection cables for different drives and adjustable cradle for dif size mounts. plus a floppy bay and extra bay for optical or tape drive of many choices. and dock plugs for 3 dif style laptops over several year models and lots of add-ons/adapters to install on it. and the 2503 is about same size but less options available.

btw I have an extra Dock II with 2x CD bay, 1 game card and a NOS mini tape drive storage unit in original box and this dock has the 701s series dock plug kit installed also. I would sell cheap plus shipping or local pickup in St Louis MO area. got an extra 701s laptop also for any collectors. trades considered related to T61, W500, W520, 2503 dock... items

[dr_st]

The things about these big docks (Dock II / Advanced Dock), is that their added value over the simpler solutions (Mini-Dock / Advanced Mini-Dock) is particularly evident in a specific (and not very common) set of scenarios. However, this added value comes with a cost that you must pay whether you use it or not (size / noise), and in cases when you do use it, it imposes some non-trivial limitations and complications (in the case of external GPUs).

For the vast majority of people looking for some expansion / a permanent desktop-like setup for their laptop, the Mini-Docks are of better value. So you don't find a lot of documentation and testimonials about these big docks.

[n2ri]

I own all forms of expansion slots for both series laptops referred to here e.g. mini docks, advanced mini docks full sized Docks most just add more sockets for more items to plug in. and for desk top use as you state where we have the most permanent items to plug in and use since they are too large to take along portable and many require extra ability in the PC to use them then the largest Dock is what is needed at out workstation. like my home office has 4 different types of standard paper printers plus a 3D printer, a document/photo scanner, 3D scanner, PDA sync docks, speakers, USB floppy, USB HDD backup, monitors, etc etc all having different types of plugs plus power supplys. my 3D printer had to be set for com port 24 due to other items trying to steal lower numbers not already asigned (3D printers use vertual serial usb ports running in background so if not running their ports appear un-used to plug and play) also I have many things connecting by other means IR, Blue tooth, wifi, USB, PCMCIA, portable card slots swap bays with many different items that can go in it. I replaced a huge desktop tower PC with 4 big drive bays, 2 floppy bays, 4 HDD RAID system, 8 PC card slots etc. with my laptops and add-ons so I can take half my office with me even have a Canon BJC-85 printer with scanner head in my Laptop bag and every add-on made for my laptops. whats the use owning a laptop if not for making desktop mostly portable? I just cant take along a soround sound system, ALPs die sub printer, large scanners, etc. and mostly only use them at home anyway. I do businesses, Manufacturing, play, entertainment, book keeping everything with my PCs, dont everybody? lol

get the most out of your investment, not just some. I also dont bother with mediocre basic featured Laptops like the average AOL user that can barely turn their PC on and check email without tech support LMAO. and yes I know lots of those people. had to fix issues they created many times. still dont know how one managed to crash HDD trying to find how to feed the fish in her screen saver???? they used to misname files and thought they deleted them, delete printer folder (had to set recycle bin for 36days so I could dig stuff out monthly) they set text to same color as background... yeah and I was not IT I was the Facility Engineer and after 6 years of this they got an IT guy. THANK GOD hehe

[n2ri]

all dock stations are not good to "hot undock" if any ports have items plugged into them even if not in use/powered on as they become installed each time you start laptop while docked so to undock is same as uninstall and must be powered down or possible damage the plug and play ability or laptop in some way. even if power fails some ports cause OS to freeze when battery kicks in I know serial and Parallel ports do this always.

how many watts power does the PSU on a 2503 put out? no info available on this. also I need a service manual that tells how to disassemble the unit as I cant get the outside cover off completely and removed 1 screw between speaker/mic ports that allowed a small metal bracket to fall loose and I couldnt get it back on so removed it and kept it with its screw not sure what it does if anything.

newest model Thinkpad it works with is W50 says 1 manual I found. but no word on what PCI Express cards work other than old Grafics display adapter but most dont have correct slot or size to fit. my W500 already has a display digital for monitor so I want to use a 4 channel sound port card instead for a set of soround speakers I have. then use a 1TB HDD in ultrabay as backup drive for both my Thinkpads when syncronized/used on desk at home. the replacement keys are $19 a pair so I am using broken key in hole and screw driver to lock/unlock now.

[RealBlackStuff]

HMM: https://www.manualslib.com/download/395 ... -Dock.html
Also see if this helps: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=37094

[TRANTOR1972]

I played around with this docking station for a while. It is quite difficult to disassemble and assemble!
You can see here what's inside from the photos and the bad video I made!
https://youtu.be/vsnAWgjL-08
https://youtu.be/dcZemkl_aAo