Thinkpads Forum

My Thinkpad T60 laptop occasionally goes catatonic for a minute or two, maybe more at a time. I'd say that if I compute for an hour a day on the machine it generally happens 1-2 times. I only reboot occasionally, electing to put the machine into suspend when not using it. Rebooting doesn't appear to alleviate the problem

It's running Windows 7 Home Premium on an Intel 330 180GB SSD, partitioned with OS on C drive at 60GB and the rest is a ~120GB D data drive. When the machine goes totally unresponsive (I don't even see a mouse cursor), I hit CTRL+Alt+Delete and wait until my monitor goes blue to know it's come out of whatever is hanging it up. When I close my browser for whatever reason I've taken to not restoring the windows/tabs because they would take up over 1GB of RAM and the machine's only running 3GB. I don't believe the machine would benefit from bumping it to the max of 4GB.

I'm running MSE. I don't see any correlations to what I'm doing with the machine, it seems random. It's been going on for months now, it's extremely aggravating and frustrating.

What could be the problem here? I could restore to an early version of the OS, but of course I'd have to install and configure a bunch of stuff. Still, it's the only thing I can think of trying. I could image the current system and if restoring to an early version doesn't work I could restore my recent backup. Suggestions?

Well, looking in Windows logs I see this error for the 1-3 minutes halts:

Error: The device, \Device\Ide\iaStor0, did not respond within the timeout period.

I guess that indicates that the SSD is failing. I hear that getting Intel to honor the warranty is apt to be a horror show. I'm going to try to climb that mountain, don't know how far I'll get.

Muse wrote: I guess that indicates that the SSD is failing.

That's very interesting. Obvious question: do you have another SSD or magnetic drive to try? Suppose it were the Sata controller on the MB and not the disk itself?

Art

Try wiping the hard drive and doing a clean install. People give up far too easy on their hardware. You have to test the SSD by reinstalling the OS after a clean wipe. If the problem persists, there is your answer.

That slow down could simply because of bad sectors, or the SSD not playing nice with power saving features in windows, both issues are managable.

I also heard great things about Intel warranty service.

See if you can post a full screen shot of something like CrystalDiskInfo to take a look at full SMART data.

See https://communities.intel.com/thread/30 ... 5&tstart=0

Run Intel's SSD Toolbox. That will tell you whether there's anything wrong with the drive...

I've got one word: SandForce....

Good luck.

My T60 is similar to yours.. i.e. integrated GPU with an Intel 330 SSD. And I was getting the same symptoms. The machine would lock up every now and then - unresponsive and with the hard drive light on, which would last for a minute or so then back to normal. This is not a machine I use often so I never worried about it too much. I'd just patiently wait for it to finish doing whatever it was doing and then continue on (my assumption was it's trim/garbage collection process related).
Last week I updated the machine to Windows 10 and I'm happy to say the issue has disappeared completely. I'm trialling Windows 10, so have been using the ThinkPad for several hours every day and haven't seen a single reoccurrence (in fact, my T60 is running better than it ever has).

mick

Muse wrote:My Thinkpad T60 laptop occasionally goes catatonic for a minute or two, maybe more at a time. I'd say that if I compute for an hour a day on the machine it generally happens 1-2 times. ... I don't see any correlations to what I'm doing with the machine, it seems random. It's been going on for months now, it's extremely aggravating and frustrating. What could be the problem here? ... Suggestions?

If you have 'Intel Rapid Storage Technology' installed, go to 'Programs and Features' and uninstall it ... your symptoms and error message ("The device, \Device\Ide\iaStor0, did not respond within the timeout period") are sometimes caused by IRST .... been there, done that .... removal solved problem on a Dell M6700.

Any idea if a task is hogging the cpu?

Does the SSD use 4k sectors? Try installing this version of RST instead if that's the case, I had to do it with the Advanced Format drive that's currently in my T60p. The drivers aren't listed as compatible with the 945 chipset, but they work.
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downlo ... top-Boards

hhhd1 wrote:That slow down could simply because of bad sectors, or the SSD not playing nice with power saving features in windows, both issues are managable.

I also heard great things about Intel warranty service.

See if you can post a full screen shot of something like CrystalDiskInfo to take a look at full SMART data.

Here's a screen shot I took today:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qDR6q ... 52-h706-no

Do you have Intel's SSD Toolbox installed? It sports a function of doing a manual TRIM - although it's called differently - on the drive. I'd highly recommend doing so.

ajkula66 wrote:Do you have Intel's SSD Toolbox installed? It sports a function of doing a manual TRIM - although it's called differently - on the drive. I'd highly recommend doing so.

I have had 7 such events today, delays of one to two minutes. Extremely aggravating.

Yes, I have the toolbox. What is that utility? Well, I'll look for it.

I don't believe I'm running the Intel RST driver. I see a Microsoft drivers in Device Manager for the SSD, nothing Intel.

I'll open toolbox right now and see if I can do a manual TRIM.

Kasm279 wrote:Does the SSD use 4k sectors? Try installing this version of RST instead if that's the case, I had to do it with the Advanced Format drive that's currently in my T60p. The drivers aren't listed as compatible with the 945 chipset, but they work.
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downlo ... top-Boards

How can I determine if the SSD is using 4k sectors? I looked around in Windows and can't see anything. No, it's not using RST AFAIK. In Device Manager it shows Microsoft drivers for the SSD, 5 of them. Should I install the RST driver(s) instead?

The manual trim tool is the Intel SSD Optimiser. I ran it, then checked for updates and downloaded the new version of the Toolbox (8/17/2015), installed it and reran the Optimiser. I have just set up a weekly run of it, assuming the machine is on at 4PM Wednesdays. Have had seven 1-2 minute delay drive timeout errors today. Will see now if I get any more. If I do, I think I might switch drivers from the Microsoft AHCI to the Intel RST drivers. Maybe that will solve the problem. If that doesn't then I guess I can try the registry editing scenario. If that doesn't work, can back up the OS, do a fresh install of Windows 7 and see if there are errors. Don't know if this is the correct order of things, I don't have a flow chart. Ah, I forgot, I should run Memtest again. Oh, and apply new compound to the CPU. Haven't done that yet. It's running at 72C right now, was running a little cooler earlier in the day, as low as 60C. I'm doing no computing now at all other than typing in this.

I've had some less-than-spectacular experiences with SF-based drives on that chipset. Can you borrow a non-SF SSD somewhere and see how it behaves within your system?

ajkula66 wrote:I've had some less-than-spectacular experiences with SF-based drives on that chipset. Can you borrow a non-SF SSD somewhere and see how it behaves within your system?

What is an "SF-based" drive? I have another Intel SSD that's never been used. It's an Intel 520 120GB SSD "New in packaging" that I bought off ebay, I don't think I ever opened the box. Had it since 12/01/2012. Turned out the machine I wanted to install it in wouldn't support it.

Muse wrote:

ajkula66 wrote:I've had some less-than-spectacular experiences with SF-based drives on that chipset. Can you borrow a non-SF SSD somewhere and see how it behaves within your system?

What is an "SF-based" drive? I have another Intel SSD that's never been used. It's an Intel 520 120GB SSD "New in packaging" that I bought off ebay, I don't think I ever opened the box. Had it since 12/01/2012. Turned out the machine I wanted to install it in wouldn't support it.

SF = SandForce controller, present on both of your Intel drives. I avoid SSDs that utilize it like the plague.

Muse wrote:I don't believe I'm running the Intel RST driver. I see a Microsoft drivers in Device Manager for the SSD, nothing Intel.

Intel RST is software which is listed in Control Panel -> Programs and Features.
If it is listed there, highlight it and uninstall it (you can always find a newer version of it later if you want it).
Intel RST is supposed to make I/O faster, but I have not looked for any reviews of it's actual performance.
I have seen numerous reports of problems caused by RST (just like your problem) ... uninstalling it seems to be the standard solution (worked for me).
If you got the Intel RST as the result of an optional Windows Update, then it may be offered to you again if you uninstall it.

GACrabill wrote:

Muse wrote:I don't believe I'm running the Intel RST driver. I see a Microsoft drivers in Device Manager for the SSD, nothing Intel.

Intel RST is software which is listed in Control Panel -> Programs and Features.
If it is listed there, highlight it and uninstall it (you can always find a newer version of it later if you want it).
Intel RST is supposed to make I/O faster, but I have not looked for any reviews of it's actual performance.
I have seen numerous reports of problems caused by RST (just like your problem) ... uninstalling it seems to be the standard solution (worked for me).
If you got the Intel RST as the result of an optional Windows Update, then it may be offered to you again if you uninstall it.

Did not know about Programs and Features. I have always gone to Add/Remove Programs to see what's installed. Do they have the same contents? Well, I do not see it in Programs and Features, assuming it's listed under Intel (the list is alphabetical). There are 3 Intel items there, RST is not among them, only these:

Intel Graphics Media Accelerator Driver
Intel Driver Update Utility
Intel SSD Toolbox

ajkula66 wrote:
SF = SandForce controller, present on both of your Intel drives. I avoid SSDs that utilize it like the plague.

I have certainly been suffering from the plague with this machine. However, there have been no errors (none reported in Windows/System Events Log) for almost 22 hours now. I haven't been computing a ton, we'll have to see. No errors since I downloaded the new version of Toolbox and ran the Optimiser TRIM utility from it... I have been getting those errors basically every day at least one over the previous week, usually several errors. If fixing it was as easy as using TRIM once a week, I feel lucky at this point. I will reseat the CPU heatsink anyway and probably run memtest+ too.

Muse wrote:I do still AFAIK still have one lingering problem with this machine in any case, assuming that the 1-2 minute lags don't return, and that's its inability to do Windows Updates without putting me through more or less elaborate restore process because the update(s) fail. I may have to roll back to a relatively old backup again or maybe even a fresh install of Win7.

Have you used the 'Windows Update Automated Troubleshooter' listed here ? :
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/ ... sues/en-us

No errors yet today and I spent a few hours today. It's 25 hours now without an error, this is looking good so far.

Edit: Sept. 11, 2015... the errors returned not long after this post was originally entered on Sept. 3!

GACrabill wrote:

Muse wrote:I do still AFAIK still have one lingering problem with this machine in any case, assuming that the 1-2 minute lags don't return, and that's its inability to do Windows Updates without putting me through more or less elaborate restore process because the update(s) fail. I may have to roll back to a relatively old backup again or maybe even a fresh install of Win7.

Have you used the 'Windows Update Automated Troubleshooter' listed here ? :
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/ ... sues/en-us

I have used that tool before without success, but I just ran it again and it indicates it fixed stuff.

The troubleshooter said:

Service registration is missing or corrupt. Fixed.
Problems installing recent updates. Fixed

I'll try WU again. Thanks!

Edit: Sept. 11, 2015 -- Windows Update eventually started working and right now there are no important updates to install, only a couple of optional updates, Skype and Windows Silverlight. I don't know why only two, there were dozens before and I never chose any of them over the last week...

So, I run WU and it says there are 20 critical or recommended updates downloaded. Says that when run on 7/22/2015, updates failed. An hour ago I let WU install all 20 updates, and it said it was successful and wanted to reboot. I rebooted and Windows failed to start. I pressed the power button to turn it off, turned it on and Windows wanted to try to repair itself and it offered to let me restore to a working configuration, which I agreed to. After a while the machine rebooted successfully. Now WU indicates that all the updates it tried to do today failed except for Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool. I don't suppose there's any sense in running WU again, I expect the same thing will happen. I figure there's no recourse other than a restore of a backup or a fresh install of Windows. Hopefully, either of those will get me back to a configuration where I can at least successfully do Windows Updates. Any ideas appreciated.

Edit: Bad news... iaStor error about 9 minutes ago: The device, \Device\Ide\iaStor0, did not respond within the timeout period.

I think the next thing I will do with this machine is reseat the heatsink on the CPU, check out the fan.

Muse wrote:Now WU indicates that all the updates it tried to do today failed except for Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool. I don't suppose there's any sense in running WU again, I expect the same thing will happen. I figure there's no recourse other than a restore of a backup or a fresh install of Windows. Hopefully, either of those will get me back to a configuration where I can at least successfully do Windows Updates. Any ideas appreciated.

I would try to do the Windows Updates one at a time to determine which one is causing the "Windows failed to Start" issue. Once it is up-to-date, then I would consider deleting the paging file, rebooting, then re-creating the paging file. A "chkdsk C: /r" should also be done before giving up.

GACrabill wrote:

Muse wrote:Now WU indicates that all the updates it tried to do today failed except for Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool. I don't suppose there's any sense in running WU again, I expect the same thing will happen. I figure there's no recourse other than a restore of a backup or a fresh install of Windows. Hopefully, either of those will get me back to a configuration where I can at least successfully do Windows Updates. Any ideas appreciated.

I would try to do the Windows Updates one at a time to determine which one is causing the "Windows failed to Start" issue. Once it is up-to-date, then I would consider deleting the paging file, rebooting, then re-creating the paging file. A "chkdsk C: /r" should also be done before giving up.

Thank you, now doing Windows Updates one at a time, presumably I'm going to come to one that won't install, right? What do I do at that point? I then install the others and continue as quoted, deleting the paging file, reestablishing it? Is doing the chkdsk C: /r a better idea than running Intel SSD Toolbox's Full Diagnostic Scan?

I've had 2 of these iaStor timeout events in the last several minutes. It's a very bad problem.

Muse wrote: now doing Windows Updates one at a time, presumably I'm going to come to one that won't install, right? What do I do at that point? I then install the others and continue as quoted, deleting the paging file, reestablishing it? Is doing the chkdsk C: /r a better idea than running Intel SSD Toolbox's Full Diagnostic Scan?

I've had 2 of these iaStor timeout events in the last several minutes. It's a very bad problem.

Doing the Updates one-at-a-time may cause all of them to install properly ... I sometimes think that WU has trouble doing too many updates at once even though they will all install fine individually.

The Intel SSD Toolbox's Full Diagnostic Scan will check the SSD for hardware/controller issues.
The 'chkdsk C: /r' in this scenario will be verifying and correcting any NTFS file structure problems.
You may want to do a 'chkdsk D: /r' also.

Do you have only one paging file on the C: drive ?

I don't know about the paging file, it's a plain vanilla install, there's only one installation of Windows on the machine, I suppose the paging file is in the root directory?

Here's what I did today, and it took me around 4 hours:

I'd shut down the machine to begin with and Windows, in shutting down, indicated that it was installing all 20 updates again. Serves me right, because I'd told WU to do that in the course of my troubleshooting the problems a couple days ago. My intention was to reapply thermal compound to the CPU and GPU. So, I figure after doing that and then restarting the machine it would again fail to boot and it would repair/restore for 10-15 minutes before I could get into Windows.

So, I finally get the machine back together around 1/2 hour ago and turn on the machine and to my surprise it didn't stall at the Starting Windows screen, which is what it always does when it can't install updates. Instead it went through a process of digesting the updates, rebooted a couple of times and Windows started. AFAIK, all 20 updates are now successfully installed!

An odd thing is that TPFC is showing widely fluctuating CPU temps, they are swinging from 59 to 69C. I realize that there's a long process of burn-in that according to Arctic Silver's website will take around 200 hours of use. I tend to turn the machine on and off frequently, very frequently in fact. Actually, it's suspend and wake from suspend that I do a lot. I rarely restart the machine, in part because of my history of problems starting this machine!

I suppose I should do those chkdsk functions. Which should I do first?

The CPU temp seems to have settled in now at 64C. A couple of minutes later it said 59, then 62 a minute after that, then 63, then 64, then 65, 62, 61, 60 all in the course of another minute or two! I'm just typing here.

Well, I figure the thing to do right now is run Windows Update again and see if it's satisfied that I'm up to date!

Having (evidently) successfully worked through Windows 7's problems installing updates on this machine, I wonder if I can get some suggestions concerning my other (3rd) Thinkpad, a T61, which is running Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit. I tried and tried and couldn't get it to successfully complete Windows Update. There are two important updates, KB6828725 and KB2868626, security updates, that failed to install time after time. Every time I run Windows Update on that machine I'm stuck waiting for the machine to roll itself back, which takes a while.

I don't recall if I ran the troubleshooter on the machine before, I think there's a good chance. Anyway, I downloaded it and ran it last night. It ran and ran and I just let it run all night. This morning it said that it had found updates and I should run Windows Update again. I clicked that button and it now says it has found 118 important updates and 40 some optional updates. I figure the odds that trying to install all 118 important updates will succeed are not very good, but of course installing 118 updates one by one is kind of ridiculous. I have the installation disk, could do a fresh install. I did have an image of the system but I discovered that the backup external HD had failed when I tried to restore around 3 years ago. What should I do? Thanks for help

BTW, this machine seems to be running a little cooler here next morning. CPU temps running between 57-65C. I don't suppose it would be wise to run a stress test at this point, could fry something, eh?

Check that SP1 is installed, before you run Windows Update.