Thinkpads Forum

I just saw a rather odd-looking T61p 15.4" listed on eBay. Here it is:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Lenovo-Thin ... 1c56f4a509

I have never see something like this, and I am wondering if the more experienced folks on this Forum have seen a similar machine. It is custom-made, but by whom? Lenovo or some other third party?

Sudevan

This is an i-Series wrongly described...

Thanks very much indeed. I had not seen an i-series Thinkpad, so I have learned something new! I looked up a couple more on eBay, and they seem to have been made in the early 2000s. Thanks again.

Going by an enlargement of the photo showing the bar code label on the bottom, it's a 2621-420, an i Series 1420:

http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tiwbook.pdf (page 14)

ref: http://www.kawakami-ca.com/images/2621-420.jpg

edit: I sent the seller a note saying what he/she's pictured is nowhere near a T61p.

You also have to understand that the term "custom" that many feebay sellers are throwing in pretty frivolously these days is meant to protect them from repercussions stemming from fairly recent PreyPal changes of TOS...

So, yeah, if it were built by RBS or maybe five other people it's really a custom job. The rest is hogwash, plain and simple.

Ray, Thanks for the details and the message to the seller. And George, your point about custom machines is very well taken. I have seen far too many people claim custom status on machines with minor modifications.

Never really investigated the i-series, though. Are they worth buying? My main concern is that they are quite old, although I might want one simply as part of my collection.

Sudevan

Sudevan wrote:
Never really investigated the i-series, though. Are they worth buying? My main concern is that they are quite old, although I might want one simply as part of my collection.

I series were bottom-of-the-barrel offerings at the time, mostly built by Acer for IBM.

Model 1124 is likely the most interesting one, being effectively a 240Z with a different finish. These are incredibly rare, though. Apart from pianowizard I don't know anyone who's ever owned one around here.

Thanks, George, I shall keep that model (1124 ) in mind. I'll do a bit of research on it and learn more about the i-series too.

I had no idea Acer built Thinkpads for IBM. I thought all IBM Thinkpads were built by IBM at the Morrisville, NC or Yamato, Japan facilities. I keep learning new things, which is splendid! I have read two books on the history of Thinkpads, but I don't recollect Acer being mentioned. It could be just me: I may not be remembering things.

By the way, it has occurred to me more than once that if we could organize the collective knowledge and wisdom of the members of this forum, a fine book on Thinkpads could be put together.

Sudevan

Sudevan wrote:
I had no idea Acer built Thinkpads for IBM. I thought all IBM Thinkpads were built by IBM at the Morrisville, NC or Yamato, Japan facilities. I keep learning new things, which is splendid! I have read two books on the history of Thinkpads, but I don't recollect Acer being mentioned. It could be just me: I may not be remembering things.

ThinkPads that were built by Acer - apart from the I series - include: R30, R31, R32, R40/e; G40, G41 - not sure about the "Japan only" G50.

ThinkPads were also built in UK - somewhere in Scotland - until 2003/2004 if memory serves me right.

Most of post-600 series were made in Mexico, with production switching to China in late 2003. Certain corporate and government builds were done in NC even in Lenovo days. Lenovo also used IBM Mexico's facilites for limited T60/61 series runs.

By the way, it has occurred to me more than once that if we could organize the collective knowledge and wisdom of the members of this forum, a fine book on Thinkpads could be put together.

Indeed...

One of IBM's first models, the 300, was built by ZDS (Zenith Data Systems). That did however turn out to be a complete fail. The initial test units sent to IBM for approval were ok, but the QC at ZDS failed totally for the units that got sent to the market, so many of them were DOA, and the 300 was withdrawn quickly. The 700 was however so popular that the 300 issues didn't affect the brand, and later 300-series laptops followed, that was manufactured by IBM and did actually work.

I have also heard that Acer was somehow involved in the G-series, but I can't verify that, as I don't remember the source of that information.

For manufacturing locations, I have seen both Mexico and Scotland on some of my older models, before it all moved to China. It appears to me like the older models sold on the European market were manufactured at IBM's now closed and demolished manufacturing plant in Greenock, Scotland, while the ones sold in the US were made in Mexico. I might be wrong on that one, though. Anybody know if the Greenock units found their way to the US? I do know that the later models, like the T30s we got here around 2002, were all Made in Mexico. I can do a quick check on this when I come back home to Norway.

Edit: George, who is more knowledgeable about IBMs than I will ever be, beat me to it. But I was at least right about the G-series.

Norway Pad wrote:

Edit: George, who is more knowledgeable about IBMs than I will ever be, beat me to it.

Not really, since this is the first that I've ever heard of the 300-related fiasco...so my knowledge of the subject matter has significant holes in it as well.

Both of my 600E, my 570E, my T23, 760ED, and my 755CX were manufactured in Mexico. The 755C was "Assembled in the U.S. of U.S. and non-U.S. components." Finally, my T60p, Z61t and T43 came from China. The bottom of that i-Series has the distinctive Acer ribs/stripes, interesting.

Other hint about unsuccessful collaboration between IBM (ThinkPad) and... LG
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=118490

Mine ThinkPads from UK, Mexico and China.

PS
Mods - may be the tail (or all) of this topic should be placed as "ThinkPad manufacturing history" topic.

Based on my message to the seller, the auction description has changed somewhat but is still not correct.

It was: "IBM / Lenovo ThinkPad T61p 15.4" Notebook - Customized"
It's now: "IBM / Lenovo ThinkPad I Series 420 (1999) 15.4" Notebook - Customized"

The message I sent was that what was pictured showed an i Series 1420 which was made in late 1999 and that it was nowhere near a T61p. Sometimes you just can't fix cluelessness.

Sudevan wrote:Thanks, George, I shall keep that model (1124 ) in mind. I'll do a bit of research on it and learn more about the i-series too.

I had no idea Acer built Thinkpads for IBM. I thought all IBM Thinkpads were built by IBM at the Morrisville, NC or Yamato, Japan facilities. I keep learning new things, which is splendid! I have read two books on the history of Thinkpads, but I don't recollect Acer being mentioned. It could be just me: I may not be remembering things.

By the way, it has occurred to me more than once that if we could organize the collective knowledge and wisdom of the members of this forum, a fine book on Thinkpads could be put together.

Sudevan

It's wasn't publicly proclaimed by IBM (or now Lenovo) that Acer developed a large chunk of ThinkPads. At least, not that I have seen. This was during 1999 and a bit onwards, IBM actually contracted Acer to design a *lot* of their consumer computer products, including Aptivas/NetVistas and not just ThinkPads. This was slightly catastrophic with some NetVista motherboards since Acer used bottom of the barrel capacitors-- leading to a lot of motherboard deaths, and subsequently you'll see an orange "serviceable used part" sticker on many NetVista motherboards that were recapped with quality capacitors by IBM after this started happening repeatedly.

The Acer i Series ThinkPads are not terrible if you take care of them. The most common problem are broken hinges, but simply just open the lid slowly and don't torque it. And make sure the screws are tight. The TN panels have rather poor backlights though... but they are strangely very soft and crisp at the same time.

The S30 and S31 i Series were not designed by Acer. And they were not released in North America (like the PalmTop) so yeah.

Norway Pad wrote:For manufacturing locations, I have seen both Mexico and Scotland on some of my older models, before it all moved to China. It appears to me like the older models sold on the European market were manufactured at IBM's now closed and demolished manufacturing plant in Greenock, Scotland, while the ones sold in the US were made in Mexico. I might be wrong on that one, though. Anybody know if the Greenock units found their way to the US? I can do a quick check on this when I come back home to Norway.

As this came up, I decided to check it out. And what I see is that my older machines that were sold as new here in Norway, 360Cs, 750C, 380ED, 600 and even the T23 are all made in Greenock, Scotland. On the other hand, the 600X that I just bought from the US is made in Mexico, same with both the 701Cs, the 560Z and both 770s. These are all bought from the US and were all sold as new in the US. Both my US T30 machines are also made in Mexico, but I think the Norwegian T30 I got back in the days was made there too. The 390X is a little special, as it has the "Assembled in the US of US and Non-US.." etc.

I'm however a bit surprised that IBM had what appears to be parallel production lines for, let's say the 600, in Mexico and Scotland. And maybe also for other machines. So to be sure, can anyone check out and verify the country of origin of YOUR 360Cs, 750C, 380ED, 600 and T23? If it was sold as new in the US, where was it made? Any other countries would be interesting as well.

This is getting OT somewhat, but I posted some information about country of origin and serial numbers earlier this year: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 86#p748586

Not sure of the history for all of the 600 and T23 systems I listed (re: if first sold in US). One of the T23 systems I have is co-branded with LG and has a 99 serial number; China. The remaining T23s are from Mexico. The 600-series systems I have also come from Mexico, with one exception: a 600E from Japan.

edit: Found this: ftp://www6.software.ibm.com/software/se ... ies-TP.pdf Marketing handout on the T23, published in October 2001. Says "Made in Japan, Korea, Mexico, Scotland and Taiwan" on the last page. Similar documents for the A3x and X21 systems published at the same time also says the same locations. Can't find anything earlier than this.

The twbook covering the "number" systems (2xx, 3xx, 5xx, 6xx, 7xx) has "Made in Scotland, Mexico, Australia, Netherlands, People's Republic of China, Taiwan, Japan or assembled in US of US and non-US components."

Yes, we are way OT, but I never pass up a chance to discuss some IBM history.

So it seems confirmed that IBM indeed had separate production lines, at least for the 600 and the T23, as yours are made in Mexico and mine are made in Scotland. I would suspect that goes for many other models too from that era. I think my original old T30 Norway-version is still sitting at work somewhere, so when I get back to work, I will check to verify that really was made in Mexico. I *think* it was, but better be sure.

It is surprising that IBM could benefit from having several production sites and lines for the same model, but apparently the advantage of having them manufactured closer to the market plus being less vulnerable was worth it. I also know it was mentioned that IBM ran into capacity problems with the 700, so to spread the production was probably a way to solve that.

Thanks for the information, Ray!

Norway Pad wrote:
It is surprising that IBM could benefit from having several production sites and lines for the same model, but apparently the advantage of having them manufactured closer to the market plus being less vulnerable was worth it.

I'd venture a guess that import duties - especially in the EU - played a role in that equation as well, especially given the price tags from the IBM days...

ajkula66 wrote:

Norway Pad wrote:
It is surprising that IBM could benefit from having several production sites and lines for the same model, but apparently the advantage of having them manufactured closer to the market plus being less vulnerable was worth it.

I'd venture a guess that import duties - especially in the EU - played a role in that equation as well, especially given the price tags from the IBM days...

The rather infamous IBM Greenock plant in Scotland created a lot more thank just thinkpads; long after IBM sold manufacturing over to lexmark for the Model M, the Greenock plant still produced Model Ms and desktops, along with a host of other products. So it was just an after-thought to also make some ThinkPads on the side.

Reading about this Greenock plant makes me want to see if I got a UK based ThinkPad now...

I am sure I had seen one in the past.

I just found another post from some years back when the same subject was discussed, and I posted there that my norwegian T30 was made in Mexico. So the laptop production in Greenock was apparently ended somewhere between the T23 and the T30. That matches with IBM doing some moves around 2002 where they sold off some of their hardware manufacturing to Sanmina. The Greenock plant was still going until 2005/6, when it was closed for god. In 2009 some of the buildings were demolished, but there is AFAIK an IBM call center there still. And apparently the IBM railway stop is still present on the Inverclyde Line passing by. "One ticket to IBM, please"

For some interesting views into what used to be a major IBM manufacturing plant, this Flickr series was posted some years ago: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleolog ... 597220928/

An interesting thing to notice is the comment that's made to one of the pictures, apparently by a former Greenock employee:

these laptops were manufactured in hungary, sent to greenock to have keyboards fitted and tested then sold as being built in greenock because the keyboard and test was done in there.

Edit: Fixed link

I think the forum ate your link.

It apparently did. Try again now.