Where can I find a post 8/08 T61p 14" with SXGA+, and what should I expect to pay for it?

[bgupta]

It's my understanding that this model is the most recent 4:3 Thinkpad, and can be upgraded to 8GB RAM, and can be upgraded with SATA SSD. I've been Googling around, but seem to be doing something wrong.

Where can I find one, and what should I expect to pay for it? (I currently have a gen1 X1 Carbon, and a T42 SXGA+ (1400x1050). I love the form factor of the T42, but it's really just too slow for me. I really hate the 16:9 screen on the X1, but it's way more usable performance wise.

-b

P.S. - I've given up waiting for a 4:3 modern "Classic", as Lenovo seems to be settling on a 16:10 screen.
P.S.S. - Not that it really makes a difference, but I run Debian Linux on both Thinkpads, and plan to run it on the T61p.

[ajkula66]

Welcome to the forum!

You are not going to find such a system since one doesn't exist. The entire 4:3 T61/p platform was discontinued by May of 2008.

There are replacement boards with known good chips that were issued by IBM/Lenovo for warranty purposes, some even with GPUs dating from 2010. However, these boards can run over $300 by themselves.

If you want a 4:3 machine, just buy a regular T61/p with SXGA+ LCD and enjoy. Unless you need the power of nVidia graphics, an Intel-based machine is a safer bet.

[bgupta]

Welcome to the forum!

You are not going to find such a system since one doesn't exist. The entire 4:3 T61/p platform was discontinued by May of 2008.

There are replacement boards with known good chips that were issued by IBM/Lenovo for warranty purposes, some even with GPUs dating from 2010. However, these boards can run over $300 by themselves.

If you want a 4:3 machine, just buy a regular T61/p with SXGA+ LCD and enjoy. Unless you need the power of nVidia graphics, an Intel-based machine is a safer bet.

Hmm. according to the wiki http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T61p the T61p is only available with Nvidia Graphics. (128 or 256M) Did you perhaps mean get a 14.1" T61 with SXGA+ plus Intel Graphics? (I don't know if I need the Nvidia GFX, but I might, since most modern Desktop environments take full advantage of 3D acceleration.)

Thanks,
Brian

[theterminator93]

The longer version of what he was trying to say, if I may take the liberty to elaborate, is that all the 4:3 T61 and T61p systems were discontinued before defect-free nVidia chips were rolled out throughout the ThinkPad lineup and the latest production date on said systems would be 05/08. Thus any nVidia based 4:3 T61 or T61p - unless it had a warranty repaired motherboard - will have a defective GPU since Lenovo didn't stop putting bad nVidia GPUs in T61/T61p systems until 08/08. If you DO find a 4:3 nVidia based board that works - there's no telling how long (or short) it will last.

If you want a 4:3 T61/T61p that is least likely to fail via GPU death, one with Intel graphics should be sought. The Intel graphics are stone-age by today's standards and wouldn't be capable of much of anything beyond basic desktop video acceleration and moderate online video streaming.

[RealBlackStuff]

I have a T61 with 14.1" XGA and Intel graphics for sale, and (SOLD)
I have a T61 with 14.1" SXGA+ and Intel graphics for sale, and
I have a T61 with 14.1" SXGA+ and nVidia NVS140M graphics from 08/04 for sale.
Quite a selection I'd say!
PM me if interested.

[ajkula66]

^^^^^

And if you were to buy a machine from RealBlackStuff you could be dead certain that it was properly tested and not a lemon...

Having owned just about every T61/p configuration that one could possibly imagine including numerous FrankenPads I'd say that unless one is intent on doing CAD work or gaming, there's not much that an old nVidia GPU has to offer...

[QWERTY Andreas]

If you are into modding, you can mod a 15.4" mobo into a 14.1" case. Ive done that with my 14.1" Frankenpad, from which i am currently writing (see my signature). But its not easy.

[Medessec]

Siding with the rest of the other forum members who replied, you can't find an all original T61 14" 4:3 model with a post-08/08 board. Getting a 14" 4:3 T61 with the later NVIDIA chips that don't suffer the NVIDIA issue will mean outside modification, particularly board replacement.

There are plenty of people on here who can offer you solutions, and RBS I would agree is definitely someone to look to for the right parts, and he can also help you with any questions or information you might need clarification with.

If you are into modding, you can mod a 15.4" mobo into a 14.1" case. Ive done that with my 14.1" Frankenpad, from which i am currently writing (see my signature). But its not easy.

These sorts of modifications are absolutely possible, but they often result in loss of functionality and problems associated with the build: some ports/audio jacks don't align with the plastics, docking port doesn't align so you can't dock your laptop, and you lose the UltraBay in it's original functionality. Despite the compromise- it can be a very rewarding solution and if you're not aside from tinkering and have some money to spare... it's definitely something worth trying if you want the ultimate 4:3 laptop. QWERTY Andreas and RMSMajestic are the forum members to look for when discussing super-modification Frankenpads.

[brchan]

It is important to keep in mind that using a 15.4" motherboard in a 14.1 T60 will require removing a lot of the structure frame and can make the unit a bit weaker.

[QWERTY Andreas]

These sorts of modifications are absolutely possible, but they often result in loss of functionality and problems associated with the build: some ports/audio jacks don't align with the plastics, docking port doesn't align so you can't dock your laptop, and you lose the UltraBay in it's original functionality. Despite the compromise- it can be a very rewarding solution and if you're not aside from tinkering and have some money to spare... it's definitely something worth trying if you want the ultimate 4:3 laptop. QWERTY Andreas and RMSMajestic are the forum members to look for when discussing super-modification Frankenpads.

Just to make a Little correction;

All ports align, one looses firewire and if you dont want to do some extra cutting you loose the SD reader (which is not present on any 14" anyway).

Audioports are fine and dockingport is fine.

The ultrabay will be lost, but its still possible to have a SSD and 2. disk.

[TuuS]

Sorry I didn't notice this topic sooner so I could contribute, but it looks like most of your questions have been answered.

I began my quest for this "holy grail" (an 08/08 14" T61p) years ago and came to the conclusion non ever existed, although I have come across a few intel based 08/08 which appear to have been special built to replace non-repairable leased equipment. I also came across an april-2009 15.4" unit with intel graphics which was also built to replace a piece of leased equipment, but generally speaking the production of the standard screen models was phased out at the end of 2007 and production completely ended in april/may of 2008, but I do have one extremely rare model that I purchased from a retired lenovo employee who had it special built, it carries a production date of July 2008 and appears to have been built with an NOS motherboard. I believe he must have had a powerful position in the company to get them to basically build him one from NOS parts, and it's now sitting in my collection. Other than this single laptop I don't believe any of the standard screen models got the updated GPU, however IBM had many new boards manufactured in or after 2010 and delivered them to their corporate customers when the news of the defective gpu chips became widespread. They delivered them prophylactically to their most loyal customers and until some of these major corporations retired their fleets of T61 laptops and we were lucky enough to get the boards that remained unused, we didn't even know they existed. Lenovo on the other hand handled the problem much different. They didn't fix any of the laptops unless it died, and even then 99% of the time they put a used (refurb) motherboard in it, most having the same poor chip design or in the few cases where they actually rechipped the refurbished board, it was "hit or miss" if the board survived the stressful reballing process required to solder the chips. I believe in new manufactured boards, the BGA soldering is done first before the rest of the lower temp soldering is done, because to do it in reverse order requires a very expensive machine that can isolate the heat to only the areas where the solder balls are and this work is done blind because the balls are under the chip. Although some shops attempt to do this on cheaper equipment, it's not advised and considering nVidia doesn't make these chips anymore except for OEM partners who they are obligated to do, finding a good GPU is virtually impossible and nearly all of them on the market today are chinese knock-offs that have their date codes altered. So while Lenovo was giving these "questionable" boards to their customers, IBM was delivering brand new boards to theirs whether they failed or not. To Lenovo's credit they did later agree to fix out of warranty units, but that only lasted for 13 months, from march 1st 2010 till march 31st 2011, and even then they still used boards with mostly the old gpu chips.

In hinesite lenovo made some really bad choices, especially considering the amount of labor and materials they spent to fix all those laptops, many of whom may have preferred a cash settlement that would cost them less, or allowing to trade the laptops in towards a newer model, and those who's laptops failed after the cutoff deadline were furious... but whatever, it wasn't the last bad choice they made.

Today if you want a good T61 there are some widescreens with the new GPU chips, they sell at a premium, but are among the nicest thinkpads ever made, or if you're looking for something cheap and can find an older one that has been cared for, it may never fail. Overall the failure rate of the nVidia chips wasn't that bad, what made the problem so serious is that it required a new board and finding one without the same bad chip was extremely difficult. As far as warranty claims were considered, I'm told the gpu failures weren't even considered a serious problem and most claims were for things like hinges, batteries, harddrives, ram, etc.

However with the T61 series being the last thinkpad laptop offering the standard screen aspect ratio and the first to support 8gb of ram and SATA2, it really is the only model that is viable today and can handle a heavy workload and if you want one with the updated GPU chip I just reduced the prices on the new NOS motherboards by upto 50% for the remainder of this month. These boards are also ideal for use in a T60 frankenpad project which no only gets you all the power of the T61, but includes the beautiful 15" ips screens last offered in the T60 series. I also have kits including all the parts to convert your T60 and they too are on sale with free upgrade to a new NOS motherboard. Both listings can be found in the marketplace here in this forum.

[TonyJZX]

Interesting thread.

This is typical of the type of machine that is turning up at my suppliers:

T7300(2GHz), 0GB RAM, 0GB 5400rpm HD, 14.1in 1400x1050 LCD, 128MB nVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M, CDRW/DVD, Intel 802.11agn(n-disabled), Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, WinVista Business

Obviously a machine like this is bordering on disposable given the GPU.

I have another T61 nvs140 w/ the 1,440 x 900 screen which displays instability under Windows but not under Linux.

I believe the Windows drivers is triggering late onset GPU alzheimers while the linux driver isnt.

This would be what I expect on the above 4:3 unit. These are well under $50 USD. Hell that is negotiable since no one wants a 4:3 laptop and really, to most people 1,400 x 1,050 is the same as 1,024 x 768 but with smaller icons. I could probably walk into his warehouse and pay a nominal price for a pair of 4:3 T61s (disposal fee?)

Also the T7300 isnt a powerhouse at all. I mean I have a T7700 and its not great.

I find you need to move to T9300+ to get acceptable performance. Depends on how much stuffing around you're willing to take.

[Pete B]

I have what I think is a related question.
If one wanted to upgrade a 4:3 T61 display with the best 14.1" plug in display
that does not require any significant mods, is there something out there as good
or nearly as good as an IPS?

Or perhaps a modded cable if required or mixed parts.

Both my T60 and T61 that I purchased to build a Frankenpad have dim displays.

[TonyJZX]

I am reluctant to spend money on a CCFL panel. I just cant stand the look.

Be that as it may, I'm not sure there NOS CCFL high res panels out there, nor would there be any LED panels.

[ajkula66]

If one wanted to upgrade a 4:3 T61 display with the best 14.1" plug in display
that does not require any significant mods, is there something out there as good
or nearly as good as an IPS?

Not by a long shot.

You're pretty much stuck with factory options of Hydis, TMD (Toshiba) and Samsung.

In other words: pick your poison since none of these screens are anything to write home about.