W10 worth the hassle?

[IMAKYA]

I put in an SSD, upgraded to the Middleton BIOS and maxed out on the RAM. My T61 feels really snappy. The Middleton BIOS made a huge difference. is W10 the next step? Am running W764 bit and appreciate the fact all the Lenovo software (power manager especially, access connections, and finger print reader, etc. work). Is W10 going to break this? Also I have the Nvidia discrete graphics. Will there be a proper driver?

[RealBlackStuff]

Read the Windows 10 forum.
You'll find your answers there.

[IMAKYA]

Read the Windows 10 forum.
You'll find your answers there.

Already did. No substantive answers just like on this section so am asking T61 people specifically again.

[pianowizard]

Upgrade through the "Windows 10 Upgrade" icon in the system tray. After the upgrade, see if everything still works. If not, you'll have 30 days to revert to Windows 7. I have tried the reversion twice and found it painless.

[Hans Gruber]

I have more than a handful of T61 models. I would say Win 7 is about as far as you would want to go with a T61. I use Windows 10 (big box) only on my gaming PC. I had Win10 on a T61 for about a week. After you do the upgrade make sure you do a clean install after.

Here is a link Microsoft's website where you can download an .iso image or do a clean install through the website.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... ol-install

[MisterB]

I would just use what you have if it is working. There are numerous issues with Windows 10 with forced updates and privacy at the top of the list.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly ... -tracking/

In general, I just keep the OS the machine was designed for. New OSes are best on new hardware. The T61 is from the Vista era and will work best with Windows Vista or 7, especially with the Middleton BIOS

If you do want to try Windows 10, I would make an image of the working Windows 7 system on an external disk with the Windows 7 imaging program so you can do a full restore easily if you want to go back to 7. I would avoid the upgrade icon and get the ISO. MS has changed its upgrade policy recently and you should be able to activate Windows 10 with any valid Windows 7 or 8 product key. Clean installs are always preferable to upgrades.

[pianowizard]

After you do the upgrade make sure you do a clean install after.

...and lose the ability to revert to Windows 7.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly ... -tracking/

Yet another misleading, useless article aimed to scare the gullible public. We have always known that it's impossible to fully turn off diagnostic telemetry, because the best we can do in the "Privacy" menu is to set the "Diagnostic and usage data" option to "Basic". Yet, the article says:

"Still, whether or not you agree with Belfiore’s standpoint that this doesn’t invade user privacy, it does seem strange that it has taken Microsoft so long to come clean and admit core Windows 10 background data collection processes cannot be stopped. Instead it gave the impression that turning off all user accessible spying options in Windows 10 settings would provide owners with full privacy – that’s tantamount to spying."

I can't believe Forbes would publish such nonsense.

I would avoid the upgrade icon and get the ISO. MS has changed its upgrade policy recently and you should be able to activate Windows 10 with any valid Windows 7 or 8 product key. Clean installs are always preferable to upgrades.

The OP just wants to know if the Lenovo software and various drivers will work fine in Windows 10. Upgrading is the easiest way to find out. If something goes wrong after the upgrade, s/he can easily reverse the upgrade.

[ajkula66]

I put in an SSD, upgraded to the Middleton BIOS and maxed out on the RAM. My T61 feels really snappy. The Middleton BIOS made a huge difference. is W10 the next step? Am running W764 bit and appreciate the fact all the Lenovo software (power manager especially, access connections, and finger print reader, etc. work). Is W10 going to break this? Also I have the Nvidia discrete graphics. Will there be a proper driver?

Power Manager will NOT be fully functional in W10. Speaking from experience here. The last OS that supports it - officially - is W7.

There is a graphics driver from nVidia for W10. How well it works is another matter, as it has been reported to cause stability issues.

Also, my T61-based FrankenPad ran about 10 degrees C hotter idling in W10 when compared to W7. For the short 24 hours before I nuked the W10 install and ran back to W7, that is.

Your machine, your call.

[brchan]

I had similar experiences to George's. W10 definitely ran hotter, was less reponsive (though still OK), and not as stable as W7, especially compared to arch Linux.

Not worth it, especially considering the privacy issues.

[Hans Gruber]

After you do the upgrade make sure you do a clean install after.

...and lose the ability to revert to Windows 7.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly ... -tracking/

Yet another misleading, useless article aimed to scare the gullible public. We have always known that it's impossible to fully turn off diagnostic telemetry, because the best we can do in the "Privacy" menu is to set the "Diagnostic and usage data" option to "Basic". Yet, the article says:

"Still, whether or not you agree with Belfiore’s standpoint that this doesn’t invade user privacy, it does seem strange that it has taken Microsoft so long to come clean and admit core Windows 10 background data collection processes cannot be stopped. Instead it gave the impression that turning off all user accessible spying options in Windows 10 settings would provide owners with full privacy – that’s tantamount to spying."

I can't believe Forbes would publish such nonsense.

I would avoid the upgrade icon and get the ISO. MS has changed its upgrade policy recently and you should be able to activate Windows 10 with any valid Windows 7 or 8 product key. Clean installs are always preferable to upgrades.

The OP just wants to know if the Lenovo software and various drivers will work fine in Windows 10. Upgrading is the easiest way to find out. If something goes wrong after the upgrade, s/he can easily reverse the upgrade.

I have more than a handful of T61 models. I would say Win 7 is about as far as you would want to go with a T61. I use Windows 10 (big box) only on my gaming PC. I had Win10 on a T61 for about a week. After you do the upgrade make sure you do a clean install after.

Here is a link Microsoft's website where you can download an .iso image or do a clean install through the website.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... ol-install

To clarify my Windows 10 experience and the clean install. The .iso image is not necessary. With the link I provided after you upgrade to Windows 10 via the upgrade of Win 7 OS. After you have Win 10 functioning you can click on the Microsoft link I provided. It gives you two options and does a clean install fully automated after your original upgrade. It has several options to save files, settings or nothing.

It's essentially a clean install but Microsoft already has your OS key for Win 10 and you could revert back to Win 7 on your previous install using the same Windows key on the same original hardware/computer.

I didn't go the .iso route because of the complications but I did a clean reinstall through the Microsoft tool after I went through the standard Windows 7 upgrade process. I ran the upgraded Windows 7 for several months but it became buggy and was not always responsive. After the clean install, it has been very smooth.

[MisterB]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly ... -tracking/

Yet another misleading, useless article aimed to scare the gullible public. We have always known that it's impossible to fully turn off diagnostic telemetry, because the best we can do in the "Privacy" menu is to set the "Diagnostic and usage data" option to "Basic". Yet, the article says:

"Still, whether or not you agree with Belfiore’s standpoint that this doesn’t invade user privacy, it does seem strange that it has taken Microsoft so long to come clean and admit core Windows 10 background data collection processes cannot be stopped. Instead it gave the impression that turning off all user accessible spying options in Windows 10 settings would provide owners with full privacy – that’s tantamount to spying."

I can't believe Forbes would publish such nonsense.

I would avoid the upgrade icon and get the ISO. MS has changed its upgrade policy recently and you should be able to activate Windows 10 with any valid Windows 7 or 8 product key. Clean installs are always preferable to upgrades.

The OP just wants to know if the Lenovo software and various drivers will work fine in Windows 10. Upgrading is the easiest way to find out. If something goes wrong after the upgrade, s/he can easily reverse the upgrade.

By taking an image, you guarantee the ability to fully restore your Windows 7 system quickly. I trust a system image I've taken myself much more than I would the MS reversion process. With an image, you are guaranteed to get the exact same system you started with. Plus, you have as long as you want to do it, not just 30 days. It can also give you the option to dual boot Windows 7 and 10.

I actually found the Forbes article interesting because it was the first decent write up of the Windows 10 privacy issues in the mainstream media I've seen. Mostly I've been reading about them on forums where people really know what's inside an OS. If the telemetry and and other privacy invading technologies were installed by a third party, they would be referred to as a root kit.

[eru3]

In my case Windows 10 is definitely worth the hassle, if you are looking for a new interface and many customization options.

T61P, FX 570M, X9000 CPU. All working very well and quicker than on Windows 7/8.

However... It was achieved with much tweaking in terms of:

- CPU voltage and frequency (0.975V at 2.4Ghz)
- GPU voltage and frequency (350Mhz Core, 700 Memory) at 0.950V through BIOS mod
- group policy editor and disabling a lot of things
- task manager and turning off startup parts of windows such as defragmentation, updates, localisation etc.

And it works perfectly well. Except the hibernation not working, but this will be taken care of after the next update of this machine(I am on very old version of Windows 10, never updated).

[IMAKYA]

Thanks. Sounds like the emerging consensus is the best OS is no new OS. I have W8.1 on VMWarePlayer and maybe see if there is a route for the free upgrade there. Will fill y'all in on how it works.

[MisterB]

Well, I finally took the plunge and did a test install of Windows 10 in a spare hard on my W510 after finally getting the ISO to download. It was a clean install on a repartitioned disk and was done completely off line. I didn't bother to enter a product key or try to activate. Apart from privacy concerns, I found it to be not very appealing visually or functionally. It is usable, but I definitely like the way Windows 7 looks and feels much better.

Some driver issues, including display but most devices worked. It did seem to run a bit hotter than Windows 7 but not excessively so. After a couple of hours with it, I swapped out the disk and went back to Windows 7 and Ubuntu. Playing with it in a Virtualbox VM looks like a better way to experiment with it.

[QWERTY Andreas]

I have decided to upgrade all my computers to Windows 10, and i enjoy to have them all share the same platform efficiently.

So far it is:
Thinkpad W500 - Works well. I had some trouble getting the ATi Graphics driver to Work, but its fine now. Cannot get 3G to work, however.
Frankepad T61F - No problems so far.
Thinkpad 8 Tablet - Works pretty much out of the box.
F-07C UMPC - incredible fast for such a slow system.
Custom build desktop - Work well, have not tried other operating systems however.

The thing i really enjoy, is how the operating system Works with multiple devices. Furthermore i enjoy it more than Windows 8, which i enjoyed more than Windows 7.
By enjoying im meaning both user experience and productivity.

[pianowizard]

I trust a system image I've taken myself much more than I would the MS reversion process. With an image, you are guaranteed to get the exact same system you started with.

Like I said, I have done the 10-to-7 reversion, and got the exact same system back.

I actually found the Forbes article interesting because it was the first decent write up of the Windows 10 privacy issues in the mainstream media I've seen. Mostly I've been reading about them on forums where people really know what's inside an OS. If the telemetry and and other privacy invading technologies were installed by a third party, they would be referred to as a root kit.

I don't think you fully digested this article. It claims that Microsoft was dishonest about diagnostic telemetry until now, and calls such dishonesty "spying". It is the author who is being dishonest, not Microsoft, because it has always been 100% clear that basic diagnostic telemetry cannot be turned off.

I have decided to upgrade all my computers to Windows 10

I have upgraded to 10 on all my computers that can run it. In my lab, three minitowers are stuck with 7 only because they all use a certain data acquisition instrument whose driver is incompatible with 10, or 8 for that matter. Without this incompatibility, I would have upgraded them. My Dell Inspiron 7500 is a Pentium III dinosaur so obviously I can't put 10 on it.

My Panasonic Let's Note CF-Y9 (same generation as the T61) runs 10 well. So it's rather surprising that the HP EliteBook 8740w, which is 1st gen Core i and hence newer than the CF-Y9, has a weird problem where the mouse pointer jumps around. Despite this issue, I still prefer having 10 vs. 7 on this laptop. Thus, I have disabled both the trackpoint and touchpad and am using an external mouse instead.

Furthermore i enjoy it more than Windows 8, which i enjoyed more than Windows 7.
By enjoying im meaning both user experience and productivity.

I agree completely. It did take me several days to warm up to 10, because it is so different from 8 and even more different from 7. Even now, over 3 months after I started using it, it is still growing on me.

Privacy concerns? I don't mind that Microsoft is periodically monitoring the health and functionality of my hardware and software. All other data submission options have been disabled. And I am not using Cortana, OneDrive, location service, or any of the Microsoft Store apps, which account for the majority of the data sharing activity described in Windows 10's EULA.

[MisterB]

Well, I'm not going to go further into the privacy issues of Windows 10 which is leading to a lot of distracting side debate. Anyone thinking of using Windows 10 should be fully aware of them and come to their own conclusions.

I did a second upgrade attempt with the Windows 10 ISO as the source and the W510 online. I cloned the system partition onto a spare disk. I started the setup from Windows 7. It was a slow process that involved downloading another 1.6gbs of drivers and updates before the main installation began. The results were much better. I ended up with a fully activated Windows 10 system that had almost all the software and tweaks the Windows 7 had. Everything worked at the driver level. The Lenovo Power Manager and TP Fan Control all worked. I just gave it an hour or so so nothing has been tested in depth. I put the original disk back in with Windows 7 and Ubuntu. I will try to get it multibooting with them eventually.

In comparing the 3 OSes on the same Thinkpad, Ubuntu is the clear winner in performance. In booting, I just blink and it's booted. Applications are equally snappy. Virtualbox Windows VMs feel more responsive. It has plenty of room on a 16gb partition and memory use is about half of what either Windows 7 or 10 use.

Windows 10 used about the same amount of memory and CPU cycles as Windows 7. It didn't run so hot with the upgrade install with TP fan control working. I still much prefer Windows 7, in spite of the more favorable impression this upgrade install made on me. Leaving aside privacy and performance, I just don't like the way it looks. The GUI design is much better in Windows 7 and the system is much more accessible though the GUI. What I notice is that the basic Windows structure is there but it is more obfuscated with each new version of Windows. There are more and more hoops to go through to get to the same place. The general impression is that MS is being very pushy and aggressive, limiting user choice, and not being transparent about it at all. The Windows 10 privacy issues are just one aspect of that.

[pianowizard]

There are more and more hoops to go through to get to the same place.

Are you aware of the Start Menu's right-click menu, AKA the "Quick Link" menu? And the numerous Windows key shortcuts? (I use "Windows + I", "Windows + X" and "Windows + number" most often.) And have you customized the Start Menu icons? Compared to Windows 7 which wasn't that different from Windows 95, these three new features have dramatically reduced the number of clicks needed to "get to the same place", and are the main reasons that I find myself more efficient in 10 than in 7. It takes some effort to learn these new tricks, especially the Windows key shortcuts, but once you have mastered them, you would find Windows 7 too primitive.

Take a look at this video: http://www.cnet.com/videos/windows-10-t ... now-about/

[n2ri]

win 10 is evil run from it and all its devices! and as for T61, W500 it will disable many of the built in features even hardware that you paid to use. and turn it into a cheap tablet with a non working touch pad and no offline apps plus you must have an Microsoft account and ask them to do anything on your own PC. then they sabatoge your old OS so your stuck with win10 like it or not. win10 is like this for just about any PC more than 2 years old as they do not support many manufacturers products unless owned by MS. oh yeah and if you do go back to old OS they leave their 10gb of "upgrades' for win10 on your hard drive and leave all settings as they changed them to when installing win10 (confiscating your PC as their own)

[Cigarguy]

win 10 is evil run from it and all its devices! and as for T61, W500 it will disable many of the built in features even hardware that you paid to use. and turn it into a cheap tablet with a non working touch pad and no offline apps plus you must have an Microsoft account and ask them to do anything on your own PC. then they sabatoge your old OS so your stuck with win10 like it or not. win10 is like this for just about any PC more than 2 years old as they do not support many manufacturers products unless owned by MS. oh yeah and if you do go back to old OS they leave their 10gb of "upgrades' for win10 on your hard drive and leave all settings as they changed them to when installing win10 (confiscating your PC as their own)

Oh boy here comes the defender of all things MS Windows in 5,4,3,2.....

[IMAKYA]

I tried installing it with VMWare Player. Actually an upgrade from W8. The disk space requirements of nearly 70GB was too unappealing to have my SSD house it especially after reading all the negative reviews. I don't want to lose the functionality of my Thinkpad software features like Power Manager etc. which is part of Thinkpad's differentiation. W10 seems like a better version of Windows ME. No thanks!

[MisterB]

Well, not to comment any further on Windows 10 itself, I've managed to multiboot both a Windows 10 upgrade and the original Windows 7 system I used for the upgrade. Imaging is a wonderful thing. I have both my W510 and X201T triple booting Windows 7, Windows 10 and Linux. There have been no activation issues. Both 7 and 10 are fully activated. So it is possible to keep your current Windows 7 install alongside the Windows 10 upgrade and use both of them at your will.

I'm having some aesthetic issues with the way Windows 10 looks in addition to privacy concerns. Parts of it are visually really nice looking and some of the interface is god awful.There is way too much white compared to Windows 7.

The hardware and drivers are all working well, I'm having much better luck with that than some of those that have posted their Windows 10 upgrade experiences.

In comparing all 3 systems on the same computers, Linux is the clear winner in terms of performance. Both Ubuntu and Mint were much less painless to download and install than Windows 10. Both use much less CPU, memory and disk space. Both GUIs are extremely fast and responsive.

[pianowizard]

Oh boy here comes the defender of all things MS Windows in 5,4,3,2.....

Does such a person even exist? I don't mean just on this forum, but anywhere on the planet. In fact, I don't even know of anyone who likes all things Win10-related.

I have been defending Windows 10 only against criticisms that are based on ignorance. Specifically, most "privacy concerns" stem from misunderstandings about the EULA and the different types of telemetry, while complaints that Windows 10 is "inefficient" are from people unaware of the various new menus and Windows key shortcuts that have dramatically increased efficiency. For example, we can now open Control Panel by simply doing this: Windows key + "X", then "P". The mouse is so 20th century.

Windows 10 has numerous serious problems, but "privacy" and "inefficiency" aren't among them. Unfortunately, >95% of all Windows 10 complaints focus on these irrelevant issues, which have drowned out valid complaints such as the following post, which you thought I would defend against:

win 10 is evil run from it and all its devices! and as for T61, W500 it will disable many of the built in features even hardware that you paid to use.

I don't agree with the word "evil", but do think that Microsoft needs to do a much better job informing people what hardware is fully compatible with Windows 10. I currently have Windows 10 on seven machines and two have hardware issues (touchpad and USB ports) that appeared after the Windows 10 upgrade, which surprised me because they aren't that old, newer than both your T61 and W500. Microsoft should either better inform us, or develop better drivers.

Fully automating Windows Update is also stupid. It's actually a good idea for security updates, but a terrible idea for driver updates. This is because some of the latest drivers don't work as well as older ones, but Windows Update keeps automatically replacing the working drivers with defective newer drivers. This may have contributed to your struggles with your T61 and W500.

and turn it into a cheap tablet with a non working touch pad and no offline apps plus you must have an Microsoft account and ask them to do anything on your own PC.

Trying to put Windows 10 on a Core2 Duo machine is like trying to put Windows 7 on a Pentium 4 or even Pentium III machine. You can't blame Windows 10 for not supporting your T61 or W500, but it's valid to criticize Microsoft for not warning you about the incompatibility. I think the Windows 10 Upgrade app only checks compatibility of the video card, which is obviously not enough. Windows 10 works perfectly on my Panasonic Let's Note CF-Y9 (Core2 Duo with PC2-5300 RAM), but I just got very lucky.

plus you must have an Microsoft account

No you don't. When installing Windows 10, you can simply skip the question asking you to sign in. But Microsoft really should make it clear that signing in is optional. So, again, this is a valid complaint.

then they sabatoge your old OS so your stuck with win10 like it or not. win10 is like this for just about any PC more than 2 years old as they do not support many manufacturers products unless owned by MS. oh yeah and if you do go back to old OS they leave their 10gb of "upgrades' for win10 on your hard drive and leave all settings as they changed them to when installing win10 (confiscating your PC as their own)

I have no idea what you meant here. I have successfully reverted from 10 to 7 several times already, with settings unaltered. The 10GB that's left behind can be easily removed using Disk Cleanup or CCleaner. Also, the Surface line is pretty much the only computer hardware owned by Microsoft. So, if Windows 10 supported only Microsoft-owned hardware, then it wouldn't run on the vast majority of computers.

I tried installing it with VMWare Player. Actually an upgrade from W8. The disk space requirements of nearly 70GB

Windows 10 takes up much less space than 7, and roughly the same as 8. I don't know where you got the 70GB number from.

[IMAKYA]

The 70 GB represented the size of two Virtual Machine files containing 8.1 and a separate beta of 10. I guess I could have eliminated the beta in my count to be more accurate but that kind of space on an SSD even if cut in half for software which others say will walk on one leg despite having perfectly good hardware i find repulsive. Also you say the mouse is 20th century? It's far easier to click away then to memorize any keys. Most people rarely use any Cntrl keys when they have a mouse. Much more intuitive. Chevy, Ford and Dodge brought back the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger in a very successful and improved way. Microsoft basically brought back Windows ME with 10.

[IMAKYA]

OK folks I tried this with VMWare Player. The VM itself I put on a USB drive. It was slower than molasses but I was able to upgrade from W8.1 64 to W10 64. Probably because of the USB drive it was really slow. I didnt see any video problems but that was probably because it was not a direct installation. I have no plans now to use W10. Looked like W8.1. Same stuff, same architecture and visual look IMO. W10 is the new WME IMO.