Thinkpads Forum

The X9000 is typically going to be used by people who want to overclock, and perhaps going too far might damage the part. Is this anything to really worry about, or does the built in thermal management down clock it before damage can be done?

Thinking of buying one soon.

Thanks!

The computer will shut down when it gets too hot. Don't worry.

The overclock might damage the processor if you set the voltage too high, or reduce its lifetime.. But if you know how to overclock - you have nothing to worry about.

//Andreas

I have built (and sold) over 20 Frankies with X9000, not a single problem ever.

If you can get one pulled from a corporate laptop that wasn't abused, then great, but you don't want one that was heavily overclocked then dumped on an auction site after it became barely able to run. There are people who enjoy overclocking for sport and like posting video tapes of benchmark tests to brag about how fast they can get any specific chip to run. This probably isn't done much today with the X9000, but it certainly was in the past when it was new.

Every one I've sourced came from a working laptop, I'd buy it, downgrade the cpu and resell the laptop. You'll probably end up paying more for the chip sourcing it this way, but it's the only way you can have an idea where the chips been.

Also, they are rated for more power than these thinkpads are designed to support, but it appears the safety margins are significant so they seem to run fine, but always make sure you have a good battery and I'd recommend not running such a machine on only battery power if it can be avoided, or if you do set it to throttle down. Heat is an issue too, They usually run a few degrees hotter than other penryn chips at clock speed, so make sure you always monitor the temps and don't use the laptop in hostile environments.

Thanks everyone, I bought one on ebay and it seems to work fine.

Tuus, that is all excellent advice but I bought it before reading your post.

I've read here of peoples systems, mainly T60s, shutting down when the CPU temp reaches 97 C or so. In other places I see people talking of temps reaching 97 C without shutdown.

I've let this T61 14.1" doner system reach 99C and it does not shut down - is this normal?
Edit: I cleaned the fan and applied new AS5 paste when I did the swap.
Ran this in BIOS control mode thinking that it was safer and would shut the system down,
but then later found that I could run the fan harder, earlier with tpfancontrol and am
actually able to keep it much cooler. Still wondering what controls thermal shutdown.

I suppose my question is if thermal shutdown is a BIOS determined thing, or processor type ... etc?

The shutdown is usually regulated by the CPU, but the BIOS also has some sensors which can cause a shutdown.
Main thing:
- make sure your air in-and outlets are always free,
- clean the fan from dustbunnies regularly
- at least once a year replace the thermal paste with fresh AS5 or similar
- install TPF

Pete B wrote:I've let this T61 14.1" doner system reach 99C and it does not shut down - is this normal?

My question would go along the lines of what utility was used to measure the CPU temp in the first place. The second question would be on why you allowed the system to hit such a mark.

That was CPU temp as reported by tpfancontrol, I would hope that it was a sensor on the die since Tjc is reported as an upper limit of 105 deg C here: http://ark.intel.com/products/34443/Int ... 00-MHz-FSB

I didn't like doing this, did it only once and was expecting it to shut down and do not plan to do it again. This was under BIOS control for the fan, I don't get much over 83 deg C with a custom profile in tpfancontrol using level 64.

When I build a T61 or t61p I have never seen one go that high no matter how much I stress it, so I suspect something is wrong. One common problem is people taking apart and replacing parts without cleaning and replacing the thermal paste, but other problems could be the cause. Generally a healthy T61/T61p will see full operating temps in the 60-70c degree range, maybe as high as 80 when stressed and an X9000 may be a bit higher, but if it reaches high 90s or higher something is wrong, also keep in mind that these intel chips seem to be designed to keep running even if some of the transistors are blown. If I see a chip that is running hot and a heatsink change with new thermal paste doesn't correct the problem, it goes right back into liquidation, I won't take a chance on parts that run abnormally hot. I've seen many videos of gamers bragging about how much speed they get out of their cpu chips and I've seen some of the most foolish cooling systems rigged up from running icewater through a liquid cooler to hooking room (box) fans up attached to a tower case with holes cut in it. I've also seen laptops taken apart with huge finned aluminum heatsinks on the cpu chips all to get a screenshot or a video showing a record breaking overclock. You'd think they could just study video editing or photoshop if their only goal is to impress people lol

As for thermal shutdown, I've seen T61 units go over 100c and I always shut them down immediately and unless it's something rare I'll just put it right back on the pallet and let someone else worry about it. I've also seen fans that move the air very well and heatsinks that look great, but just don't do the job. I don't really understand the science behind it, but sometimes it seems the heatsinks just don't work even if clean and installed properly, so if it continues to run hot after cleaning try replacing the heatsink.

Good Luck

ps. Never attempt to flash a bios on a system running hot, your odds of bricking the motherboard are much higher.

I would save your money and get a T8300 or T9300 and an average 120-256GB SSD drive. The CPU is so old you will not see a difference in performance between a T8300 and a x9000. If you have at least 4GB of ram and and SSD drive, you won't be able to notice a difference in speed. The X9000 CPU's are trending above $100 which is not cost effective in 2016.

Hans Gruber wrote:I would save your money and get a T8300 or T9300 and an average 120-256GB SSD drive. The CPU is so old you will not see a difference in performance between a T8300 and a x9000. If you have at least 4GB of ram and and SSD drive, you won't be able to notice a difference in speed. The X9000 CPU's are trending above $100 which is not cost effective in 2016.

I paid $85 from a US supplier, it was on sale during the holidays - I'm not going to
sweat a 30 to 40 buck difference from a T9500.
I worked in CPU design and have done a lot of benchmarking, and I know that other
elements are usually the bottle neck. I've already got an SSD and 4 GB, just bought
8 GB which I probably don't need but what the heck.
This T61 had a T8300 in it when I got it, and I have another system with a T9500 so
yes I'm familiar with their speeds.
I'm going to straighten out the cooling and then try for 3.2 GHz with power management
enabled so that it down clocks when necessary.

TuuS wrote:When I build a T61 or t61p I have never seen one go that high no matter how much I stress it, so I suspect something is wrong. One common problem is people taking apart and replacing parts without cleaning and replacing the thermal paste, but other problems could be the cause. Generally a healthy T61/T61p will see full operating temps in the 60-70c degree range, maybe as high as 80 when stressed and an X9000 may be a bit higher, but if it reaches high 90s or higher something is wrong, also keep in mind that these intel chips seem to be designed to keep running even if some of the transistors are blown. If I see a chip that is running hot and a heatsink change with new thermal paste doesn't correct the problem, it goes right back into liquidation, I won't take a chance on parts that run abnormally hot. I've seen many videos of gamers bragging about how much speed they get out of their cpu chips and I've seen some of the most foolish cooling systems rigged up from running icewater through a liquid cooler to hooking room (box) fans up attached to a tower case with holes cut in it. I've also seen laptops taken apart with huge finned aluminum heatsinks on the cpu chips all to get a screenshot or a video showing a record breaking overclock. You'd think they could just study video editing or photoshop if their only goal is to impress people lol

As for thermal shutdown, I've seen T61 units go over 100c and I always shut them down immediately and unless it's something rare I'll just put it right back on the pallet and let someone else worry about it. I've also seen fans that move the air very well and heatsinks that look great, but just don't do the job. I don't really understand the science behind it, but sometimes it seems the heatsinks just don't work even if clean and installed properly, so if it continues to run hot after cleaning try replacing the heatsink.

Good Luck

ps. Never attempt to flash a bios on a system running hot, your odds of bricking the motherboard are much higher.

Now you have me wondering what program you use to measure temps?
I used tpfancontrol. Idle in Windows doing nothing I had a temp of about 40 -50 C.
I ran Prime95 to get up into the 90s which it only did with the BIOS managed speed
control, with tpfancontrol and my settings, it would climb to 90 where the fan went
to full speed then came back down.

This was reported in the Heat Sink Mod thread under BIOS control with an X9000, so high
90s seems normal to me under BIOS control - my question was why doesn't it shut down.
Also, most people probably use tpfancontrol in order to have better cooling at high temps:
The CPU was stressed with Prime95 for 20 minutes.
CPU - 97°C

The laptop works fine, I don't think that there is anything wrong with it. I have wondered
if the heatsinks can go bad by loosing the water or whatever is inside the pipes but I've not
seen that reported anywhere. I will keep it in mind that you've seen some bad heatsinks.

I used AS5 when I installed the new CPU chip.

Any truth to the C0 steppings of all Core 2 CPUs being so poor?

From this post in another thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p742246

Qing Dao wrote:

precip9 wrote: C0 stepping Core 2 processors just suck, and one should stay away from them at all costs, so that is probably why there is a lot of fear of the Apple-specific Core 2 mobile processors. They can come clocked quite high, with the C0 E8435 being the same speed as the C0 stepping X9100, which is also a complete dog. If anyone actually intends to pay money for a Core 2 processor, they should only go for E0 and R0 stepping chips. Even the C0 stepping T9400, which is only 2.53Ghz, runs extremely hot in my T500.

The real lesson should be to just stay away from C0 (or M0) stepping Penryns.

Is it that the early devices, when the 45nm process was new, did not have all the process
tweaks that they came up with as time went on?

Here it is interesting that the P9700 only came in the E0 stepping and that process is
probably what makes the low power P versions possible. So, if T or X types are built in
the E0 process I would guess that they'd be lower power also:
http://ark.intel.com/products/42599/Int ... #@ordering

Pete B wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:46 pm

TuuS wrote:When I build a T61 or t61p I have never seen one go that high no matter how much I stress it, so I suspect something is wrong. One common problem is people taking apart and replacing parts without cleaning and replacing the thermal paste, but other problems could be the cause. Generally a healthy T61/T61p will see full operating temps in the 60-70c degree range, maybe as high as 80 when stressed and an X9000 may be a bit higher, but if it reaches high 90s or higher something is wrong, also keep in mind that these intel chips seem to be designed to keep running even if some of the transistors are blown. If I see a chip that is running hot and a heatsink change with new thermal paste doesn't correct the problem, it goes right back into liquidation, I won't take a chance on parts that run abnormally hot. I've seen many videos of gamers bragging about how much speed they get out of their cpu chips and I've seen some of the most foolish cooling systems rigged up from running icewater through a liquid cooler to hooking room (box) fans up attached to a tower case with holes cut in it. I've also seen laptops taken apart with huge finned aluminum heatsinks on the cpu chips all to get a screenshot or a video showing a record breaking overclock. You'd think they could just study video editing or photoshop if their only goal is to impress people lol

As for thermal shutdown, I've seen T61 units go over 100c and I always shut them down immediately and unless it's something rare I'll just put it right back on the pallet and let someone else worry about it. I've also seen fans that move the air very well and heatsinks that look great, but just don't do the job. I don't really understand the science behind it, but sometimes it seems the heatsinks just don't work even if clean and installed properly, so if it continues to run hot after cleaning try replacing the heatsink.

Good Luck

ps. Never attempt to flash a bios on a system running hot, your odds of bricking the motherboard are much higher.

Now you have me wondering what program you use to measure temps?
I used tpfancontrol. Idle in Windows doing nothing I had a temp of about 40 -50 C.
I ran Prime95 to get up into the 90s which it only did with the BIOS managed speed
control, with tpfancontrol and my settings, it would climb to 90 where the fan went
to full speed then came back down.

This was reported in the Heat Sink Mod thread under BIOS control with an X9000, so high
90s seems normal to me under BIOS control - my question was why doesn't it shut down.
Also, most people probably use tpfancontrol in order to have better cooling at high temps:
The CPU was stressed with Prime95 for 20 minutes.
CPU - 97°C

The laptop works fine, I don't think that there is anything wrong with it. I have wondered
if the heatsinks can go bad by loosing the water or whatever is inside the pipes but I've not
seen that reported anywhere. I will keep it in mind that you've seen some bad heatsinks.

I used AS5 when I installed the new CPU chip.

Pete, I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, as my time online has been sporadic in the last year while recovering from surgery. I see your signature says you have one of my motherboards, so thanks for the purchase. As for the CPU, you mention it was "new", but I don't believe there was any new chips left from when these chips were first offered many years ago, and buying a used one is a hit or miss type of thing since many have been abused fom excessive overclocking, then dumped on sites like ebay when they become unstable. In fact I've learned to only get them from newly retired corporate laptops, and then only after extensive testing. I have one of these in one of my frankenpads and under heavy use I've seen temps ranging from 75-80c degrees, and often much less. I'm sure I could force it higher, but when a cpu reaches the mid 90s you are dangerously close to thermal shutdown. Also, if you purchased the x9000 online from china, you might want to a google search on "fake chips from china". Now I have no first hand info on where these chips come from, but for there to suddenly become thousands of chips claiming to be brand new coming out of china, then I'd tend to believe they are just more of these fake chips... perhaps clones made illegally, perhaps re-badged engineering samples, perhaps lesser chips reprogrammed to run similar to an x9000, or maybe they are real, but if they have been sitting in a warehouse for like 8 years, why wait till now to dump them on the market instead of selling them when they could have gotten several hundred each for them... Now I don't want to make claims I have no proof of, but if it looks suspect, it probably is, and China has a history of selling fake chips, thousands of them were in our fighter jets and had to be replaced after the contractor was caught buying them to save money. All of this is very easy to find on google. However, assuming you do have a good cpu, then I will see that I've seen bad heatsinks that look perfect and I've spent hours trying to figure if they were bent or twisted, had bad fans, or what... and ended up replacing it and instantly solved the problem. Although this isn't common, it can happen and it baffles me. All the used heatsinks I sell have been tested on a laptop under stress, except for NOS parts of course. Regarding AS5, I can tell you that too much or too little is equally bad. The instructions the company gives is to spread it smooth, but this only works well with a milled heatsink, with stamped metal heatsinks you want to put it on rough, then seat the heatsink on it, press with one finger over each chip and wiggle it slightly to settle it down on the paste and if done correctly a small amount will express out the sides, you cannot avoid that, but you want it to be minimal and obviously you won't be able to see it until the next teardown where you can judge how well you did.

I hope this info is of some help to you, and also keep in mind that if you are running your x9000 beyond it's rated speed it will run hotter.