Cloning and Imaging T60P

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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taichi
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Cloning and Imaging T60P

#1 Post by taichi » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:47 pm

Is there any program which overcomes the hurdle in trying to clone the internal drive to an external one? It was so easy with my A21P.

Regarding images, if I am doing a clean install of Windows 7, and for whatever reason my data files are not preserved, is there a way to restore folders and files from an image? I don't suppose there are any on this forum who recommend an in place upgrade from Vista to Windows 7.

Admin edit: Corrected typos in subject line (was: Clothing snd)

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Re: Clothing snd Imaging T60P

#2 Post by Cigarguy » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:58 pm

I've used Clonzilla via Parted Magic to clone various HDD over the years with great success.

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Re: Clothing snd Imaging T60P

#3 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:02 pm

Cigarguy wrote:I've used Clonzilla via Parted Magic to clone various HDD over the years with great success.
+ 1
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#4 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:14 am

You can also use the Windows 7's system image tool found in backup and restore. That app is the best at keeping your boot manager as well as your license safe. Like all other utilities, it will only take the amount of storage that you actually used out of that partition (but it usually takes a little bit more) instead of the full capacity of that partition.
It is also pretty handy, you can throw that into your external hard drive and use it with a emergency boot disc if your original copy/that hdd dies out.
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Re: Clothing snd Imaging T60P

#5 Post by taichi » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:30 pm

Cigarguy wrote:I've used Clonzilla via Parted Magic to clone various HDD over the years with great success.
With a T60P? I have read (and had the experience with the Apricorn HD Upgrade kit) that you can't clone from the T60P's internal drive to an external drive. From what I've read you have to swap drives...put the destination drive into the T60P and the source drive in the enclosure. Something to do with Enterprise security, that also is supposed to affect Thinkpads from the T60 on.

I had no such problem with the A21P. I cloned to Apricorn's enclosure, using their cloning software, and always had a bootable drive in an emergency.

I intended using Macrium's Reflecy Free, and buying the full version in a bit.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#6 Post by Shredder11 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Yeah I prefer to use my Ultrabay caddy and swap the drives around when cloning, or when moving an existing install over to a new SSD drive.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#7 Post by taichi » Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:50 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Yeah I prefer to use my Ultrabay caddy and swap the drives around when cloning, or when moving an existing install over to a new SSD drive.
You're speaking of taking out the optical drive and using an ultrabay HD caddy instead? If I do that can I clone to that ultrabay HD without touching the presently installed HD? Or must I still swap the two HDs?

On a different note, I just received my WD My Passport USB drive from Amazon, and it came in a bubble wrap envelope. Is that sufficient packing for a hard drive? Amazon has gone cheap with its packing for a number of years, but I was surprised that this did not come in an external box.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#8 Post by dr_st » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:15 pm

I think some tools are just better at cloning boot sector information than others. I believe that the right version of Acronis, for example, can clone an internal T60 drive just fine. Others probably too.

In fact I remember successfully performing an internal-->external clone on a T60, using Acronis (because that's just what I use) and, surprise-surprise - it worked:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 86#p751470
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#9 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:39 pm

If you are imaging then put your spare hdd (doesn't have to be empty but has to be ntfs) into the ultrabay caddy abd use the image maker Windows provides, otherwise you use a usb boot disk to boot to Windows PE or something and work there
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#10 Post by Shredder11 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:45 pm

taichi wrote:
Shredder11 wrote:Yeah I prefer to use my Ultrabay caddy and swap the drives around when cloning, or when moving an existing install over to a new SSD drive.
You're speaking of taking out the optical drive and using an ultrabay HD caddy instead? If I do that can I clone to that ultrabay HD without touching the presently installed HD? Or must I still swap the two HDs?

I move the internal operating system drive to the Ultrabay caddy, and put an empty drive in the internal bay to clone to. I boot from the Ultrabay drive and then run my cloning software of choice as normal.
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X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#11 Post by Neil » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:40 pm

It may be worth mention that swapping drives this way is an excellent way to insure that you have a fully functioning clone, since you working drive becomes the backup, and the clone is the working drive going forward.
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#12 Post by taichi » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:24 pm

dr_st wrote:I think some tools are just better at cloning boot sector information than others. I believe that the right version of Acronis, for example, can clone an internal T60 drive just fine. Others probably too.

In fact I remember successfully performing an internal-->external clone on a T60, using Acronis (because that's just what I use) and, surprise-surprise - it worked:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 86#p751470
That's happy news if it works for me. So the stricture is not hard and fast.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#13 Post by Cigarguy » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:26 pm

No it's not. I've successfully cloned to a USB HDD too. Never really paid much attention to what was in which location. Was more focused on making sure the from and to drives are not mixed up.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#14 Post by taichi » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:58 pm

Cigarguy wrote:No it's not. I've successfully cloned to a USB HDD too. Never really paid much attention to what was in which location. Was more focused on making sure the from and to drives are not mixed up.
Yes. that existential moment was crucially focused for me as well with my Apricorn kit. Making the wrong choice is like entering a black hole.

I wonder if this SATA Ultrabay would worky for my T60P.
https://www.amazon.com/ADSRO-Ultrabay-D ... y+HD+caddy

Anybody read that thread about a new modern mobo that would fit in the T60p?

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#15 Post by Cigarguy » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:33 pm

That caddy should work.

Yep I've heard about the T70, along with the T50 and X62 projects. Good stuff they are doing over there. I've given up on acquiring one as it's 1) difficult to source and 2) is relatively expensive and not worth it to me at the moment. I wish a motherboard OEM such as Foxconn, ECS, Asus, Gigabyte, etc would produce something like this with support similar to that of a desktop motherboard support. I doubt the demand is nowhere near profitable for them.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#16 Post by Shredder11 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:04 pm

taichi wrote:
dr_st wrote:I think some tools are just better at cloning boot sector information than others. I believe that the right version of Acronis, for example, can clone an internal T60 drive just fine. Others probably too.

In fact I remember successfully performing an internal-->external clone on a T60, using Acronis (because that's just what I use) and, surprise-surprise - it worked:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 86#p751470
That's happy news if it works for me. So the stricture is not hard and fast.
I've used Acronis Backup Advanced for Workstation for a few years, but I only use the bootable optical media disc. I prefer to use the disc rather than install it properly, as Acronis stuff can be difficult to uninstall and has usually become corrupted over time for me. The bootable disc version has all the features I want anyway, including the ability to create your image file over a network LAN connection.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#17 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:16 am

Neil wrote:It may be worth mention that swapping drives this way is an excellent way to insure that you have a fully functioning clone, since you working drive becomes the backup, and the clone is the working drive going forward.
This. Times a zillion.
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#18 Post by Brad » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:01 am

Lots of great ideas.

The only thing I can think of is that after cloning if you don't move the drives to their original positions and use the backup drive as your new primary drive is that you may have programs that complain and need to be re-registered or sometimes reinstalled. Not usually too big a deal though its something to consider.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#19 Post by dr_st » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:01 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Neil wrote:It may be worth mention that swapping drives this way is an excellent way to insure that you have a fully functioning clone, since you working drive becomes the backup, and the clone is the working drive going forward.
This. Times a zillion.
Indeed, if the goal is to clone to a new drive and continue using it, it does not really matter if you have to clone external-->internal, since the new drive will have to be put in the internal bay eventually anyway. :)
Brad wrote:The only thing I can think of is that after cloning if you don't move the drives to their original positions and use the backup drive as your new primary drive is that you may have programs that complain and need to be re-registered or sometimes reinstalled. Not usually too big a deal though its something to consider.
Also, this can happen if one is not careful. :)
Current: X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 1952-F76, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#20 Post by jaspen-meyer » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:34 am

I cloned win8 recently, as follows:

1. run this command to prepare machine for cloning. The cloned images will require you to reregister.
%WINDIR%\system32\sysprep\sysprep.exe /generalize /shutdown /oobe

2. Boot into clonezilla (Don't allow the machine to start into windows in the interm) and clone using
Local disk; disk to disk; define source and destination; answer 'Y' to all questions

3. done
[debian] x24 [xiphmont led] x60s [libreboot, led] T400 [libreboot, P9600] T420 [Ivy Bridge i7 3612QM]

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#21 Post by taichi » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:12 am

That's an interesting approach, jaspen-meyer. Would it work in Vista (the OS I'm ready to upgrade to 7)? Does Macrium allow a boot from optical disk?

My goal is to both make images prior to upgrading, but also have a working clone. When I had the A21P I used the Apricorn kit to periodically make a clone of the most recent configuration. It was easy...just plug in the usb enclosure, start the software, and voila.

I'm surprised that Amazon sent my My Passport drive in a thin, small, insubstantial bubble wrap envelope. They send inert shave cleaning cartridges in a sturdy box, but the hard drive in virtually nothing.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#22 Post by jaspen-meyer » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:09 am

I haven't tested it in Vista, but that method's been around since XP:
http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articl ... Part5.html
[debian] x24 [xiphmont led] x60s [libreboot, led] T400 [libreboot, P9600] T420 [Ivy Bridge i7 3612QM]

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#23 Post by taichi » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:56 pm

I ran across an old forum post on this subject of cloning the T60P.

The OP concluded after trial and error that you must clone from an external drive to the internal of the ThinkPad. Even when cloning the other way seemed successful, producing an ostensibly cloned disk, it was either unbootable, or generated disk errors.

If that's true, is an UltraBay mounted drive considered an external drive?

Also do these restrictions apply to imaging, or is the restoration of an image on an external drive always successful? (Imagaing from Internal to External)

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#24 Post by Shredder11 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:19 pm

I tend to use my Ultrabay when I am cloning an existing operating install to a blank new SSD drive. However if I am just making a backup clone image periodically, I tend to use the Acronis software mentioned above and save the image in realtime across my LAN network to my NAS box (Synology DS415+). I have also used the same software to save the image directly to an external USB drive. When I need to apply the image if the computer has gone wrong, I just use the Acronis boot disc, which also has LAN network capability and I can access the image on my NAS and restore it to the laptop. All of the various methods work properly and every single time.
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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#25 Post by MisterB » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:21 pm

taichi wrote:I ran across an old forum post on this subject of cloning the T60P.

The OP concluded after trial and error that you must clone from an external drive to the internal of the ThinkPad. Even when cloning the other way seemed successful, producing an ostensibly cloned disk, it was either unbootable, or generated disk errors.

If that's true, is an UltraBay mounted drive considered an external drive?

Also do these restrictions apply to imaging, or is the restoration of an image on an external drive always successful? (Imagaing from Internal to External)
This really depends on the software used and also how well the user understands the process. I've cloned lots of drives, including many T60s and T60Ps. A T60P uses the older MBR standard which is far simpler than UEFI. With most cloning software, there should be no problem cloning from the internal drive to an external drive in a USB case. The only program I ever remember having problems with USB drives was the old Drive Image program from Powerquest. I do recommend cloning with an Ultrabay caddy because it is much faster than a USB external drive.

Cloning doesn't always work the first time but the failures are much less than the sucesses. The most common problem I run into is that either a MBR or boot sector doesn't get cloned properly and the system won't boot. That usually results in a blinking cursor. If there is a Windows error message about missing files, it is a BCD problem that can be fixed by a Windows repair disk. That is also pretty common.

The program I use for cloning now is Aomei Backupper. I have it on a bootable thumb drive. Another useful program to deal with boot problems is a small utility called Bootice. It can backup and restore MBRs and boot sectors and has a BCD editor that is similar to Easy BCD.
Currently using: A W500, a W520, an X201T, an X220T, an X61T, a 14" T60P,a 15" UXGA T60P and a W700.
Currently idle: A spare W500, a spare X61T, a spare W700, a 14" T61, a 15" SXGA+ T60, a 14" T60, and my first Thinkpad, a 770X.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#26 Post by taichi » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:33 pm

But is a an UltraBay mounted HD recognized as an external drive?

What is the part or model number that I'm looking for if I want the complete UltraBay unit for mounting a WD 750 GB drive?

Thanks

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#27 Post by Cigarguy » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:50 pm

Depends on how you define external. Typically an external drive is a drive that is detachable from the laptop such as a USB key drive or USB HDD. An ultrabay drive can be view as either internal or external.

Honestly I don't think it matters. MisterB have said it best by saying that the software matters. I found Windows 7's imaging program is not reliable while most others are. Cloning software have come a long way in the last few years.

Regardless of what or how you do it, you should have the original drive and a cloned drive after the process is complete. At that point install the cloned drive into the drive bay. Take the original out and store in a safe place. Test the machine with the cloned drive thoroughly, for at least a week before you even think of doing anything to the original. That way if anything happens or if the clone doesn't work you can always swap back the original.

It really is not that complicated. Just a matter of following a few basic directions and being methodical and careful to copy A to B and not B to A.

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#28 Post by taichi » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:03 pm

So am I looking for a SATA Ultrabay hard drive adapter? Would anyone know a model number?

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#29 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:32 pm

Just search that on eBay and you should be good to go. It is Ultrabay Slim though. These aftermarket ones are cheaper and feels cheaper if you physically touch the bay but they all just work fine
Patience, boys. All good things to those who wait. – Mother Gothel (Tangled)
_________________________________
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
2xT43 14.1" 2.26 SXGA+ 2gb 1*fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
Flexview UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10

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Re: Cloning and Imaging T60P

#30 Post by Shredder11 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:46 am

The one I have which I use in both my Z61p (almost identical to the T60p) and in my docking station with my X60/61 models, is numbered FRU: 26R9246 or P/N: 26R9247 . Not sure if mine is an original Lenovo one, but it is nearly all metal and fits very well and works fine.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
X60s (CD L2400, 3GB, 160GB)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II)
G40 x2 (P4 2.8GHz, 2GB, 60GB)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 40GB)

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