Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

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nigratruo
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Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#1 Post by nigratruo » Wed May 03, 2017 7:30 pm

I have a T61 with the Nvidia GPU that has this nasty manufacturing defect. I have baked (reflow) the motherboard twice already and it fixed it every time, but after usually half a year, the problem comes back, and the laptop has an insane amount of screws and takes a long time to take apart and put together again.

So now I'm wondering if I can avoid this problem by buying a T61 that uses an Intel Chipset instead. Do you know how I can find these easily?
Also, I love the high resolution that my T61 has on the 15.4 screen, I got 1680 x 1050 and would like to keep that, but the question is: Do the intel chipsets support such a high resolution or are they only for the lower resolutions? BTW: I don't care about 3d performance, the Nvidia chip is so old that it is pretty much useless at this point. Also, there are some driver issues with Linux and I know that intel graphics are probably supported better.

When buying a T61, is there a way to avoid the Nvidia problem by buying after a certain production date? How can you tell when a T61 was manufactured?

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#2 Post by ajkula66 » Wed May 03, 2017 8:02 pm

nigratruo wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 7:30 pm
. Do you know how I can find these easily?
Yes. You could also just swap the motherboard for an Intel one.
Also, I love the high resolution that my T61 has on the 15.4 screen, I got 1680 x 1050 and would like to keep that, but the question is: Do the intel chipsets support such a high resolution or are they only for the lower resolutions?
Your LCD's resolution will work just fine. As will 1920x1200 should you ever decide to upgrade.
When buying a T61, is there a way to avoid the Nvidia problem by buying after a certain production date? How can you tell when a T61 was manufactured?
Check the production date on the same sticker that holds the serial number on the bottom of the machine. Systems produced in August of 2008 or later (08/08 code) are deemed "safe" generally speaking, and are likely to command a higher price. Having said that, they are almost a decade old and could fail for a variety of non-nVidia-related reasons.

This post brought to you courtesy of an nVidia-powered R61 dated February of 2008 (08/02). If it were to die tomorrow I couldn't complain, it has given me - as well as other people - almost a decade of faithful service.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#3 Post by nigratruo » Mon May 08, 2017 8:40 pm

Thanks a lot for your pointers. And yes, of course you are right, a laptop so old could fail at any time. I had the screen light fail so far and the inverter.
It was my impression so far that the intel powered GPUs are for the lower screen resolutions and for only 14 inches screens, is that correct or does any one of you guys use an intel GPU (shared graphics) for a high resolution?

I don't need any fancy graphics performance.

I have also gotten a amazing ton of use out of the single T61 I have been using.

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#4 Post by ZaZ » Tue May 09, 2017 1:26 am

nigratruo wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 8:40 pm
It was my impression so far that the intel powered GPUs are for the lower screen resolutions and for only 14 inches screens, is that correct or does any one of you guys use an intel GPU (shared graphics) for a high resolution?
Had a R60 with UXGA LCD with Intel GPU and no problems. As long as you're not asking too much of the GPU, like gaming or rending, you should be OK. The T61 is now 10 years old and there may be some areas where it chugs like flash, though that's more dependent on the CPU.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#5 Post by nigratruo » Thu May 11, 2017 10:09 pm

Hmm, interesting. Do you know what determines the resolution?
The Chipset or the display? Will the system just display the highest resolution that the LCD panel can support? (i.e. The LCD telling the chipset via ID what resolution it natively supports?)

I found a T61 Type 6464, that has intel graphics, but only a 1.8 ghz CPU. Mine has a 2.4 (or 2.6 ghz, not sure), I should be able to stick the faster CPU in the intel chipset type, right?
Asked in another way: Are all the T61 CPUs compatible with each other?
The display on the 6464 is just WXGA, can I just stick another display that has a higher resolution in there? Can you mix and match T61 parts and build yourself a super T61? I don't know how the other types work (the R and such) so I can just talk about the T61, as I know this one.

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#6 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri May 12, 2017 12:33 am

nigratruo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 10:09 pm
Hmm, interesting. Do you know what determines the resolution?
The Chipset or the display? Will the system just display the highest resolution that the LCD panel can support? (i.e. The LCD telling the chipset via ID what resolution it natively supports?)
It's the LCD. It uses EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) to tell the system its native resolution.

IIRC some forum members have either upgraded their 15.4 inch T61's with the WSXGA+ or WUXGA panels, or replaced their T61p boards (died due to nVidia GPU plague) with T61 boards with Intel graphics.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#7 Post by ajkula66 » Fri May 12, 2017 4:19 am

A couple of things here...

It's a lot easier to swap the entire LCD assembly than just the screen itself.

One can most certainly "mix & match" the parts, and going from a 1.8 to a 2.6 CPU is not a problem on these machines.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#8 Post by nigratruo » Fri May 12, 2017 8:29 pm

Thanks a lot for clearing this up.

Do you know how the model number works, what the numbers mean? 6465-CTO for example, is there a way to look it up on just one site?
I have so far used google and found different sites with different infos. I started a little spreadsheet, to catalog which types are for which T61, screensize, chipset, CPU it comes with etc...so I can find it easier on ebay, maybe such a spreadsheet does exist already?

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#9 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri May 12, 2017 8:45 pm

There's the MTM link at the top of each forum page, where you can enter the 7-char. TYPE.
But if you have a -CTO like yours, you're out of luck.
6465-CTO means: Configured To Order and could contain any variety you can imagine of the 6465 group.
Just type in 6465 there and see a multitude of possibilities...
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#10 Post by nigratruo » Sat May 13, 2017 6:43 pm

The MTM link is super useful and the CTO one is not mine, it was just an example that I mentioned.

I know that there were two different types of Nivida chips that were used in these laptops, I know that the smaller one, Quadro NVS 140M, has the manufacturing defect. Does the larger one of them, Quadro FX 570M, also have it?

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#11 Post by ajkula66 » Sat May 13, 2017 7:01 pm

nigratruo wrote:
Sat May 13, 2017 6:43 pm

I know that there were two different types of Nivida chips that were used in these laptops, I know that the smaller one, Quadro NVS 140M, has the manufacturing defect. Does the larger one of them, Quadro FX 570M, also have it?
Yes.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#12 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat May 13, 2017 7:03 pm

Both of them had the same problem.
The 14.1" 4:3 T61 NVS140M was fixed around August 2008, and new ones are available from TuuS (search the forum).
Never seen a "fixed" FX570M.

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#13 Post by Raidriar » Tue May 30, 2017 9:23 am

My theory about these nVidia chip failures has something to do with the obscenely high voltage they were set to at the factory. I've had a lot of experience modifying and playing with voltage settings on both mobile AMD and nVidia cards, and most will run happily at 1.0V - 1.050V range, lower if you have a good binned chip. Open up GPU-Z on a factory voltage FX 570M.....it runs a crazy high voltage of 1.15V, and Power = Voltage * current, so reducing the voltage will reduce the power consumption and heat generated, as well as reduce stress on the other components of the board.

I have found the FX 570M (and probably the NVS 140M) can happily run at a voltage of 0.90V for a well binned chip, 0.95V for an average chip, and 1.0V for a poor chip. No reason to be running at 1.15V, which turns the GPU into a blast furnace and likely cooks its internal transistors in the process.

TLDR: Undervolt your FX 570M/NVS 140M, there is a BIOS floating around from highsun that does exactly this. I have a 08/07 production T61P with the FX 570M undervolted to 0.90V, 1680x1050 display, and a T9500 tuned to run 2.6Ghz at 1.0875V, manual TPFancontrol set to level 5 fan, keeps the whole system cooler, more power efficient, and less likely to fail. Don't be afraid of buying a nvidia equipped t61, I found figure at this point, if they would have died, they would have done so already. Mine turns 10 years old in a couple months and with a SSD, is still very usable for internet and word processing as well as movie watching. Don't try anything 3d intensive though other than old games.

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#14 Post by cadillacmike68 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:33 pm

nigratruo wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 10:09 pm
Hmm, interesting. Do you know what determines the resolution?
The Chipset or the display? Will the system just display the highest resolution that the LCD panel can support? (i.e. The LCD telling the chipset via ID what resolution it natively supports?)

I found a T61 Type 6464, that has intel graphics, but only a 1.8 ghz CPU. Mine has a 2.4 (or 2.6 ghz, not sure), I should be able to stick the faster CPU in the intel chipset type, right?
Asked in another way: Are all the T61 CPUs compatible with each other?
The display on the 6464 is just WXGA, can I just stick another display that has a higher resolution in there? Can you mix and match T61 parts and build yourself a super T61? I don't know how the other types work (the R and such) so I can just talk about the T61, as I know this one.
It's both, really, plus the cable. A particular LCD panel has a max resolution, which it Cannot exceed. However the chipset also has a limitation (as does the signal cable), but even with my plain Intel graphics XGA (1024x768) T61 8898-AGM, I can easily run two external monitors at 1920x1200. Having more RAM will help since the graphics and processor are using shared memory.

nigratruo wrote:
Sat May 13, 2017 6:43 pm
The MTM link is super useful and the CTO one is not mine, it was just an example that I mentioned.

I know that there were two different types of Nivida chips that were used in these laptops, I know that the smaller one, Quadro NVS 140M, has the manufacturing defect. Does the larger one of them, Quadro FX 570M, also have it?
Here's a little helpful hint. the first 4 numbers, the TYPE will determine the physical size (14in std, 14in WS, 15in WS), AND the graphics type (Intel integrated, or either type of Nvidia). So ALL 6565s are 15in WS with Intel graphics. At least for T61s, probably for T500s and most other T-series.

What the Type alone cannot tell you was initial factory CPU, memory, LCD resolution, OS, other options, etc. For that you also need the model and there have been sooooo many CTO it's a royal PITA.

Sometimes there is a machine ID sticker under the MTM and SerialNo label with three characters after the Type which can be looked up, and it will sometimes say what original MTM the computer you are inquiring on was based on.

I recommending downloading the ThinkPad MTM database / spreadsheet and browsing through it. You'll get an idea of what I'm referring to, and it can be very helpful looking up Types at least to see what the GPU is / was...

ALL the nvidia GPus back then had the fault and Every manufacturer was subject to the problems it caused.
Last edited by cadillacmike68 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#15 Post by cadillacmike68 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:44 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sat May 13, 2017 7:03 pm
Both of them had the same problem.
The 14.1" 4:3 T61 NVS140M was fixed around August 2008, and new ones are available from TuuS (search the forum).
Never seen a "fixed" FX570M.
I have a T61p replacement board with a G84 GPU dated Feb 2011 that I got from someone here, so they must have existed, but probably not in large numbers.

The board is FRU 43Y9048. It's in the IBM / Lenovo white service parts box with matching labels including the static sleeve. I'm sure its real, but my T61p isn't even outfitted yet, so its staying in the box until the original board fails.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#16 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:34 am

That's a 'native' Merom mobo.
If you ever need it, you must put in a Merom CPU (T7100/T7300/T7500 etc) first, then apply Middleton BIOS.
Only then can you put in a Penryn CPU.

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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#17 Post by cadillacmike68 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:19 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:34 am
That's a 'native' Merom mobo.
If you ever need it, you must put in a Merom CPU (T7100/T7300/T7500 etc) first, then apply Middleton BIOS.
Only then can you put in a Penryn CPU.
The vendor did that for me (nice fellow), so I Should be good to go with it. But maybe I'll put the highsun BIOS on it to throttle down the GPU voltage a bit.
760LD 9547 FUBARd
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#18 Post by Pete B » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:36 pm

I had a T61 15.4" like yours with failed NVIDIA, found a new old stock IBM
Intel motherboard sealed in the box for $30 on ebay. Installed it and gave
it away to family - works great. Put in a dirt cheap T8300 CPU in it and 4GB
of RAM. Parts are all very inexpensive now. Middleton BIOS.
The display is rather dim and we might look for a replacement soon.
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Re: Finding a high resolution T61 with intel graphics?

#19 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:46 pm

It should be cheap enough to buy an Intel T61 (or T500, R500, W500, R61) and then buy a high res screen seperatey to put in that.
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