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T61 available RAM - confused
T61 available RAM - confused
I have a dual boot 32bit XP and Win10 T61, well several actually. When 4gb of ram is installed both OSs report only 3gb available, BIOS says 4gb installed. I would expect a bit more than 3 gb as a 1gb loss to OS and Thinkpad overheads seems a bit too much I would have thought. This is based on my desktop which shows about 3.4 available.
The situation changes if I install only 3gb of RAM this shows as all 3gb available!! All T61 are the same and all are Intel graphics.
So that is 100% of 3gb and only 75% of 4gb available. Anyone know why this is ?
The situation changes if I install only 3gb of RAM this shows as all 3gb available!! All T61 are the same and all are Intel graphics.
So that is 100% of 3gb and only 75% of 4gb available. Anyone know why this is ?
Where to begin......
390e FOR SALE : GONE
1 x T20 : SOLD
1 X T23 + 3 breaking for parts
1 X T23 with Samsung 840 SSD and XP Great combination !: SOLD
1 X T60
3 X T61
1 X T601 15"
1 X T520
2 X T530
390e FOR SALE : GONE
1 x T20 : SOLD
1 X T23 + 3 breaking for parts
1 X T23 with Samsung 840 SSD and XP Great combination !: SOLD
1 X T60
3 X T61
1 X T601 15"
1 X T520
2 X T530
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- ThinkPadder
- Posts: 1756
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:08 pm
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
Nothing confusing, just 32 bit OS limitations. Lots have been written on this subject. 32 bit OS will only recognize 3 GB. Some Dell and HP laptops are able to recognize a bit more but never the full 4 GB. Install a 64 bit OS and you can install up to 8 GB on a T61.
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- Junior Member
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:25 pm
- Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire, England
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
This is actually an Intel chipset limitation and will apply to any other computer using this chipset. My sister's Acer Aspire model from 2006 has the same chipset, and it can only use 3GB of the 4GB installed.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
W520 (C2Q i7-2720QM, 8GB, 60GB SSD)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II, 128GB SSD)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 128GB SSD)
W520 (C2Q i7-2720QM, 8GB, 60GB SSD)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II, 128GB SSD)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 128GB SSD)
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
I'm fairly certain that you're referring to the chipset seen in T60, but OP's system is a T61 so it's a completely different ballgame.Shredder11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:21 pmThis is actually an Intel chipset limitation and will apply to any other computer using this chipset. My sister's Acer Aspire model from 2006 has the same chipset, and it can only use 3GB of the 4GB installed.
Agreed with behaviour observed being tied to a 32-bit OS.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
Cheers,
George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)
One FlexView to rule them all: A31p
Abused daily: T520, X200s
PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.
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- Senior Member
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Re: T61 available RAM - confused
To clarify, it is a limitation of 32-bit Microsoft Vista and 32-bit Microsoft XP.
There are 32-bit operating systems which use physical address extension (PAE) to address >4 GB. To give an example, 32-bit Red Hat Enterprise Linux has a memory limit of 64 GB.
It is not a chipset limitation. The chipset limitation is "8 GB maximum memory".
T420 i7 3612QM seabios; T420 i7 3630QM; T400 Q9100 seabios; T61 P9600; T60 libreboot; x62; x60s libreboot, led; x24 xiphmont led
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
And Windows 7 and 8 and 10, and every Microsoft client 32-bit OS. Server SKUs can recognize more memory. The limitation, BTW, was introduced with XP SP2. SP1 had no this kind of limitation. But nobody had >4GB of RAM at that time.jaspen-meyer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:29 pmTo clarify, it is a limitation of 32-bit Microsoft Vista and 32-bit Microsoft XP.
There are unofficial patches that can unlock the limitation, but what's the point? Can just install a 64-bit version.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
I am not convinced that this is totally a 32bit issue as my desktop will see 3.42gb of 4gb with the same PAE setup. I have tried some of those patches which open up RAM > 4gb and they do work but the downsides I found with USB support for example meant that the OS was unusable. I have not tried the WIN 10 patch yet though as I don't really like W10 enough on the T61.
So to try to diagnose further I will install XP SP1 and see what happens then. I am just curious thats all.
So to try to diagnose further I will install XP SP1 and see what happens then. I am just curious thats all.
Where to begin......
390e FOR SALE : GONE
1 x T20 : SOLD
1 X T23 + 3 breaking for parts
1 X T23 with Samsung 840 SSD and XP Great combination !: SOLD
1 X T60
3 X T61
1 X T601 15"
1 X T520
2 X T530
390e FOR SALE : GONE
1 x T20 : SOLD
1 X T23 + 3 breaking for parts
1 X T23 with Samsung 840 SSD and XP Great combination !: SOLD
1 X T60
3 X T61
1 X T601 15"
1 X T520
2 X T530
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
On a system limited to 4GB addressable RAM, some address space has to be reserved for devices. How much exactly differs based on the devices available, so different systems can end up with different amounts of addressable RAM.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
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- Junior Member
- Posts: 368
- Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:25 pm
- Location: Bradford, West Yorkshire, England
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
Yes my mistake, the chipset is different and so the OS is the cause here on the T61 models.ajkula66 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:28 pmI'm fairly certain that you're referring to the chipset seen in T60, but OP's system is a T61 so it's a completely different ballgame.Shredder11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:21 pmThis is actually an Intel chipset limitation and will apply to any other computer using this chipset. My sister's Acer Aspire model from 2006 has the same chipset, and it can only use 3GB of the 4GB installed.
Agreed with behaviour observed being tied to a 32-bit OS.
Z61p x3 (C2D T7600, 3GB, 500GB SSD, BCM70015, Advanced Dock x1, Mini Dock x2)
W520 (C2Q i7-2720QM, 8GB, 60GB SSD)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II, 128GB SSD)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 128GB SSD)
W520 (C2Q i7-2720QM, 8GB, 60GB SSD)
X61 (C2D T7500, 3GB, 250GB SSD, BCM70015)
X61s (2GB, 120GB SSD)
T43p (P M 760, 2GB, IBM Port Replicator II, 128GB SSD)
G41 (P4 3.46GHz, 2GB, 128GB SSD)
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
Exactly, but how to find out exactly what is lost to system overheads when the loss is zero with 3GB of RAM installed and apparently 1GB with 4GB installed.
To investigate further I installed XP SP1 which will address memory above the 32bit 4gb limit and this showed that 3.92gb was available when 4gb was installed, a reported loss of 80mb. Then with 3gb installed 2.97 was available, a loss of 30mb.
So I am still puzzled where my 1gb of memory has disappeared to when XP and Win 10 report only 3gb when 4gb is installed. It is clearly down to windows but why is my Thinkpad penalized more than my desktop which only loses .58gb to system overheads.
Where to begin......
390e FOR SALE : GONE
1 x T20 : SOLD
1 X T23 + 3 breaking for parts
1 X T23 with Samsung 840 SSD and XP Great combination !: SOLD
1 X T60
3 X T61
1 X T601 15"
1 X T520
2 X T530
390e FOR SALE : GONE
1 x T20 : SOLD
1 X T23 + 3 breaking for parts
1 X T23 with Samsung 840 SSD and XP Great combination !: SOLD
1 X T60
3 X T61
1 X T601 15"
1 X T520
2 X T530
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
If you found out, it would not help you. There is not much you can do with it.
As you see, XP SP1 succeeded in remapping most of your RAM. Some loss may be due to alignment (addresses can only be remapped in blocks, not one-by-one).
Again - XP SP2+ and later Windows client OSes (32bit) will not address anything over 4GB. So any address ranges reserved to devices are lost from RAM. How much is lost varies from system to system, depending on the hardware configuration.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
Frankenpad 15" TuuS MB X9000, LED IPS, T440s IPS display
Toughbook CF51 with SSD, Dell: D830, M4400, M6400
Toughbook CF51 with SSD, Dell: D830, M4400, M6400
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
Installing a WinXP SP1 for testing is okay, but installing a 64bit Windows for testing is too much? I don't understand you...
Sometimes coming over from the German forum...
X62s 3rd batch, [s]T61[/s] T70 14" 4:3 1st batch
X62s 3rd batch, [s]T61[/s] T70 14" 4:3 1st batch
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- ThinkPadder
- Posts: 1756
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:08 pm
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
I hear you. Just install a 64 bit OS and move on. I don't know of any program that will run only 32 bit AND is not 64 bit OS compatible AND don't have AND will never have a 64 bit compatible version. I could be wrong.
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
16-bit Windows programs.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
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- Senior ThinkPadder
- Posts: 2235
- Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:29 pm
- Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Re: T61 available RAM - confused
@dr_st: That's the reason I have the Windows Virtual PC "XP Mode" installed on my Win 7 64! I needed it to install legacy programs.
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