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Is this cpu defective?

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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zod
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Is this cpu defective?

#1 Post by zod » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:19 pm

I'm playing with T61p (yes, it's finally working again), and I have noticed it's running little bit hotter than it should. It has T7500 cpu and FX570, because after T61's sudden death it's T9300 cpu ended up in my T601. So I have decided to make a little experiment and I'm getting really strange results. Just take a look at this:

Room temperature 21 degrees (Celsius), same machine, same heatsink, same cpu paste, same tpfan settings.

T7500 setup, top temperatures:

idle cpu 52 gpu 50 pwr 44
thinkpads forum cpu 56 gpu 53 pwr 45
youtube 1080p cpu 72 gpu 66 pwr 51

T7300 setup, top temperatures (similar to those I was getting with T9300, maybe little bit lower on T7300):

idle cpu 44 gpu 43 pwr 40
thinkpads forum cpu 48 gpu 45 pwr 42
youtube 1080p cpu 63 gpu 58 pwr 48

Swapped cpus two times with consistent results. I'm really confused now, temp difference between T7300 and T7500 is unreasonably high. Only possible explanation would be that T7500 is defective, although machine works fine with both processors, and T7500 shows no other ill signs except heat dissipation. Any ideas?

GrifterGuru
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#2 Post by GrifterGuru » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:43 pm

These pages (when looked at as comparisons) may show the reason for the additional heat of the T7500

INTEL T7300 Info Page

INTEL T7500 Info Page

As an aside, one is 2.0GHz, the other is 2.2GHz according to the very quick look I had....
X31 2672-58G, M73 10AXS, M73 10AXS i7, L412 4403-72G i5,T420 4236-9N8 i7-2630QM, T430 2349-TDG, X201 3680-C85, X220 42902
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#3 Post by TPFanatic » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:43 pm

The increased temp is well within normal range for a CPU. My 2.8 Ghz P9700 in the T500 can reach 80C with a good workout. Each minor increase in clock speed means increased voltage on the CPU, which means more heat. 2.2 ghz isn't a lot by modern standards, but for a Merom that's a lot of speed and subsequently more heat.
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ajkula66
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#4 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:44 pm

I don't think that the CPU is defective. Meroms tend to run hot IME, and that's all there is to it.

At one point in the game I had a modded 15.4" R61 with NVS140M and went from T7300 to T7700. Ended up modding it further by throwing in a T61p heatsink since the stock cooling unit was just not cutting it.
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Screamer
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#5 Post by Screamer » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:48 am

zod wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:19 pm
Swapped cpus two times with consistent results. I'm really confused now, temp difference between T7300 and T7500 is unreasonably high. Only possible explanation would be that T7500 is defective, although machine works fine with both processors, and T7500 shows no other ill signs except heat dissipation. Any ideas?
It would not be possible for your T7500 to be defective, since it still runs fine. Defective processors in my experience, either throw a BSOD when even told to run light loads, or just does not perform as fast as it should on a certain clock speed. I doubt heat can be a symptom of a defective processor.

I believe the reason why your T7300 and your T7500 has an unsually big thermal difference, is most likely due to an older stepping of the T7500. The 800MT/s Merom line had 2 commercially available steppings, E1 and G0. The E1 stepping is the oldest and runs hotter than the G0 stepping, at least in my experience. Also, I would like to know what is the S-spec of your T7500, and your T7300. Here is a reference list to make it easier for you to identify the stepping:

Code: Select all

G0 T7500: SLAF8, CPUID signature 06FB
E1 T7500: SLA44, CPUID signature 06FA
G0 T7300: SLAMD, CPUID signature 06FB
E1 T7300: SLA45, CPUID signature 06FA
Though, like what TPFanatic and ajkula66 has stated, Merom-based processors tend to run hot. You definitely do not want to know how much heat an X7800 or an X7900 will put out, it is frightening!

zod
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#6 Post by zod » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:25 am

Screamer wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:48 am
Defective processors in my experience, either throw a BSOD when even told to run light loads, or just does not perform as fast as it should on a certain clock speed. I doubt heat can be a symptom of a defective processor.
And this is the right answer, thank you. My T7300 is G0, and T7500 is E1. Who would tell it will make such a difference. HWinfo shows that T7500 is never going below 2200MHz, even while idling, like speedstep is completely disabled. I tried to reinstall PM driver, but got same behavior.

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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 am

Apply Middleton's BIOS and replace the CPU with a T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500.
They run a lot cooler.
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zod
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#8 Post by zod » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:32 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:44 am
Apply Middleton's BIOS and replace the CPU with a T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500.
They run a lot cooler.
There's no machine in my hands without Middleton applied. It's about the first thing I do when I have new arrival. Unfortunately, I have only one T9300 and it's already in T601. T9300 is expensive here (25-30 EUR), and T9500 is almost impossible to find (saw only one with ridiculous price tag at 50 EUR). I could try with T8300 though, never had one, they are under 10 EUR on the market.

Cigarguy
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#9 Post by Cigarguy » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:21 am

A T8300 is a pretty decent CPU. Much better than a T7300 or T7500 in my books.

ajkula66
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#10 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:36 am

Cigarguy wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:21 am
A T8300 is a pretty decent CPU. Much better than a T7300 or T7500 in my books.
+ 1 right here
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Cheers,

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AARP club members:A31p,T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#11 Post by Raidriar » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:31 am

Or, for the low low price of free, you can download throttlestop and lower your voltage on the CPU without reducing clockspeed. That will drastically reduce temperatures and power consumption. My X9000 was rated to run 2.8Ghz at 1.2250V, I can run the same frequency at just 1.0875V, big improvement in thermals.
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#12 Post by Cigarguy » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 am

AFAIK a X9000 is not free. The OP is talking about a T7300 or T7500 with his T9300 being utilized in another machine. A X9000 is a nice CPU and throttlestop can be used for this particular CPU but downvolting will not work or is beneficial for all CPUs.

By all means, if the OP can get a X9000 as easily and for a reasonable price compared to a T8300 or T9300 then go for it. Content and practicality on a 10 year old system should be considered here. Some folks, like myself, can't be bothered to spend too much money or put too much effort into doing a mod on a 10 year old system for marginal gains. I'd rather put the money on a better SSD which can then be used on the next machine when this particular machine dies.

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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#13 Post by Raidriar » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:21 pm

Cigarguy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 am
AFAIK a X9000 is not free. The OP is talking about a T7300 or T7500 with his T9300 being utilized in another machine. A X9000 is a nice CPU and throttlestop can be used for this particular CPU but downvolting will not work or is beneficial for all CPUs.

By all means, if the OP can get a X9000 as easily and for a reasonable price compared to a T8300 or T9300 then go for it. Content and practicality on a 10 year old system should be considered here. Some folks, like myself, can't be bothered to spend too much money or put too much effort into doing a mod on a 10 year old system for marginal gains. I'd rather put the money on a better SSD which can then be used on the next machine when this particular machine dies.
You've completely missed my point. I said throttlestop is a free program that can undervolt this current chip and allow him to stay in higher frequencies longer, with less of a power/heat impact. Takes maybe 15 minutes of time to find the optimal setting. My X9000 served as an example to show how much voltage could be reduced without dropping the maximum clock frequency
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Screamer
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#14 Post by Screamer » Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 am

Raidriar wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:31 am
Or, for the low low price of free, you can download throttlestop and lower your voltage on the CPU without reducing clockspeed. That will drastically reduce temperatures and power consumption. My X9000 was rated to run 2.8Ghz at 1.2250V, I can run the same frequency at just 1.0875V, big improvement in thermals.
Interesting voltage of 1.0875v, can your X9000 can handle 24 hours of Prime95 under 1.0875v? My X7800 has a factory voltage of 1.2625v, and could never be stable under 24 hours of Prime95 at 1.125v. It eventually had to be leveled to at least 1.175v for 24 hours of stability under Prime95. While heat and battery life does matter for laptops in general, does stability not?

I do agree on downloading Throttlestop to undervolt the T7500 at the moment, although I would be very pessimistic about Merom's undervolting capabilities (see X7800). Plus, not all processors are equally produced in such a way that they will undervolt as good as your X9000 does.
Cigarguy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 am
but downvolting will not work or is beneficial for all CPUs.
Theoretically speaking, it is beneficial to all processors, provided that they don't suffer a stroke and spit out errors. As for how you mentioned that it will not work, do you specifically mean that some processors do not have the appropriate software to downvolt/undervolt? Something like the mobile variants of the Pentium 2 or the Pentium 3? I'm curious.

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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#15 Post by axur-delmeria » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:39 am

Screamer wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 am
As for how you mentioned that it will not work, do you specifically mean that some processors do not have the appropriate software to downvolt/undervolt? Something like the mobile variants of the Pentium 2 or the Pentium 3? I'm curious.
Mobile Core i series CPUs from the first (Clarksfield and Arrandale) to third (Ivy Bridge) generations cannot be undervolted via software.

I've yet to hear of any mobile CPU before the Pentium M that can be undervolted via software.
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#16 Post by Raidriar » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:21 am

Screamer wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 am
Raidriar wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:31 am
Or, for the low low price of free, you can download throttlestop and lower your voltage on the CPU without reducing clockspeed. That will drastically reduce temperatures and power consumption. My X9000 was rated to run 2.8Ghz at 1.2250V, I can run the same frequency at just 1.0875V, big improvement in thermals.
Interesting voltage of 1.0875v, can your X9000 can handle 24 hours of Prime95 under 1.0875v? My X7800 has a factory voltage of 1.2625v, and could never be stable under 24 hours of Prime95 at 1.125v. It eventually had to be leveled to at least 1.175v for 24 hours of stability under Prime95. While heat and battery life does matter for laptops in general, does stability not?

I do agree on downloading Throttlestop to undervolt the T7500 at the moment, although I would be very pessimistic about Merom's undervolting capabilities (see X7800). Plus, not all processors are equally produced in such a way that they will undervolt as good as your X9000 does.
Cigarguy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 am
but downvolting will not work or is beneficial for all CPUs.
Theoretically speaking, it is beneficial to all processors, provided that they don't suffer a stroke and spit out errors. As for how you mentioned that it will not work, do you specifically mean that some processors do not have the appropriate software to downvolt/undervolt? Something like the mobile variants of the Pentium 2 or the Pentium 3? I'm curious.
I don't bother with 24 hours prime95, I just use the t61p for bedside news reading and youtube videos, and I've not yet had a crash/lock using 2.8ghz at 1.0875V for my tasks, so it works for me.
axur-delmeria wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:39 am
Screamer wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 am
As for how you mentioned that it will not work, do you specifically mean that some processors do not have the appropriate software to downvolt/undervolt? Something like the mobile variants of the Pentium 2 or the Pentium 3? I'm curious.
Mobile Core i series CPUs from the first (Clarksfield and Arrandale) to third (Ivy Bridge) generations cannot be undervolted via software.

I've yet to hear of any mobile CPU before the Pentium M that can be undervolted via software.
You are correct. Banias, Dothan, Yonah, Merom, Penryn were all undervoltable via software, nehalem, sandy bridge, ivy bridge were not undervoltable at all (though you could add voltage), haswell, broadwell, skylake, kabylake, cannonlake are all undervoltable via software or BIOS. I prefer BIOS implementation for those.
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Re: Is this cpu defective?

#17 Post by storm-chaser » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:57 pm

Screamer wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:53 am
Raidriar wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:31 am
Or, for the low low price of free, you can download throttlestop and lower your voltage on the CPU without reducing clockspeed. That will drastically reduce temperatures and power consumption. My X9000 was rated to run 2.8Ghz at 1.2250V, I can run the same frequency at just 1.0875V, big improvement in thermals.
Interesting voltage of 1.0875v, can your X9000 can handle 24 hours of Prime95 under 1.0875v? My X7800 has a factory voltage of 1.2625v, and could never be stable under 24 hours of Prime95 at 1.125v. It eventually had to be leveled to at least 1.175v for 24 hours of stability under Prime95. While heat and battery life does matter for laptops in general, does stability not?

I do agree on downloading Throttlestop to undervolt the T7500 at the moment, although I would be very pessimistic about Merom's undervolting capabilities (see X7800). Plus, not all processors are equally produced in such a way that they will undervolt as good as your X9000 does.
Cigarguy wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:37 am
but downvolting will not work or is beneficial for all CPUs.
Theoretically speaking, it is beneficial to all processors, provided that they don't suffer a stroke and spit out errors. As for how you mentioned that it will not work, do you specifically mean that some processors do not have the appropriate software to downvolt/undervolt? Something like the mobile variants of the Pentium 2 or the Pentium 3? I'm curious.
I too can attest to the wonders of ThrottleStop and the X9000 processor. I have it running 3.4Ghz @ 1.225 vcore. This qualifies as I've had 100% uptime since replacing the wireless adapter. I also use TPFanControl and run the fan at 100% most of the time. I could never last at 24 hours of prime because of thermals, but still prime 95 is excessive for laptop use.

In terms of cost, well I picked up my X9000 for $40, so I think it's well worth it despite the age of this T61p.
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