Take a look at our
ThinkPads.com HOME PAGE
For those who might want to contribute to the blog, start here: Editors Alley Topic
Then contact Bill with a Private Message

Known T61p failures?

T60/T61 series specific matters only
Post Reply
Message
Author
martin_boro
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:34 am
Location: Bratislava, SK

Known T61p failures?

#1 Post by martin_boro » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:12 pm

Hi everyone,
So I got a T61p with the WSXGA+ panel in a great visual shape. The insides look very well, almost never used.
The motherboard is much worse for wear though. The SMDs handling power look to be thoroughly f*cked, as seen in the photo.
Now, since I managed to find the schematics of the board, the components can be relatively easily replaced.

But the real question is, is it really worth it? Or a better question, what are the chances, that it is already dead from a more serious issue?

EDIT: I just noticed, that the PCB is also cracked. Or in other words, does anyone in EU have a cheap T61p board for sale?
The Collection: T22, T23(SXGA+), A21p, X24, A31p, X32, T42p, Z61p, X301
The WIP: 701CS, T30, W700

Cigarguy
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1661
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:08 pm
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Re: Known T61p failures?

#2 Post by Cigarguy » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:18 pm

For a $50ish Cdn laptop, not worth it. This generation of Thinkpads are known to suffer from Nvidia GPU failure. All laptops are know to fail with age and/or abuse..

Thinkpad4by3
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:25 am
Location: N. Bellmore, ny

Re: Known T61p failures?

#3 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:24 pm

Cigarguy wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:18 pm
All laptops are know to fail with age and/or abuse..
This isn't just true for laptops... :(
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

Screamer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:15 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Known T61p failures?

#4 Post by Screamer » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:18 am

It is not worth it, at least in my opinion.

A more serious issue would be your T61p's Quadro FX 570M's underfill, which does not handle thermal cycling very well and will eventually fail from broken bumps. The only known solution to this issue, would be to replace the graphics chip with another graphics chip that has a date code of 0831 or later. Those graphics chips had a different underfill that handles thermal cycling much better than the previous graphics chips, but they are generally not easy to replace.

However, if your T61p has a date code of 08/08 or later (printed nearby the MTM code), then you can be assured that it has a Quadro FX 570M with a date code of 0831. In other words, you are very lucky. There were not a lot of them that were produced with the 'fixed' graphics chips.

wujstefan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Known T61p failures?

#5 Post by wujstefan » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:35 am

Screamer wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:18 am
However, if your T61p has a date code of 08/08 or later (printed nearby the MTM code), then you can be assured that it has a Quadro FX 570M with a date code of 0831. In other words, you are very lucky. There were not a lot of them that were produced with the 'fixed' graphics chips.
Sure about that? I'm not certain if fx570m were ever fixed due to small demand and short lifetime. However, I have found those chips WAY less prone to failuresthan pre-08/08 update nvs140m and even firegl v5200 from T60p.
Cigarguy wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:18 pm
For a $50ish Cdn laptop, not worth it. This generation of Thinkpads are known to suffer from Nvidia GPU failure. All laptops are know to fail with age and/or abuse..
I have too many working / abused daily 16:10 T61ps to agree. These systems can stand up to the date, and after over 10 years of very intense service these systems are still alive. I guess 4:3 units were much less fortunate though!
martin_boro wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:12 pm
EDIT: I just noticed, that the PCB is also cracked. Or in other words, does anyone in EU have a cheap T61p board for sale?
I have a lots of spares for T61p, including SHARP WUXGAs and working, Middletoned, heavily-tested boards. PM me for details.

EDIT: I have seen such thing as your motherboard. My guess is that GPU failed at some point, and the board was fried in the owen (180C / 11minutes); the ol' good method of cheap short-term GPU fix. However, if not performed correctly, such thing happens :)
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
(stable under reduction)

Screamer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:15 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Known T61p failures?

#6 Post by Screamer » Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:21 am

I am sure that they were fixed, otherwise there would not be a reason why some of them would pop up for sale.

IBM did provide some 4:3/16:10 T61p motherboards with the 'fixed' graphics chips in the past, and there are also some sellers with graphics chips that has a date code which points to 2011 or even 2012.

martin_boro
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:34 am
Location: Bratislava, SK

Re: Known T61p failures?

#7 Post by martin_boro » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:00 pm

So, I checked the dates and it looks like I missed it by quite a bit. The GPU is 0749A2, so early december 2007.
Also, I noticed, that the power connector is missing. And since it is normally screwed down into the chassis, there is a possibility that someone with "limited knowledge" could have caused the damage while trying to remove it.
And while most of the screws are missing, I don't think the board has ever been out. The dust pattern is just "too even" :-).

@wujstefan
Well isn't that convenient... There is a slight chance, that I will be going to Krosno during the Easter holidays. But nothing confirmed yet.
What pricerange am I looking at for a functional board by itself? I'd probably be fine even with a pre-08/08 board, since the notebook will be more of a collection piece than a daily driver.
The Collection: T22, T23(SXGA+), A21p, X24, A31p, X32, T42p, Z61p, X301
The WIP: 701CS, T30, W700

wujstefan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Known T61p failures?

#8 Post by wujstefan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:08 am

Screamer wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:21 am
I am sure that they were fixed, otherwise there would not be a reason why some of them would pop up for sale.
I mean the whole units. Sure, service boards hit the market, but I'm really not certain that there were any 08/08 production date units of T61p.
Note that the problem has been adressed by nVidia on February. From February up to August it is suspected (and highly possible) there was a mix of revised and non-revised boards used. Most of the production ceased on May '08, with largest demand drop hitting p series and 14,1" widescreen models (which did not matter much, as most of 14,1" widescreen was intel-based). I have seen boards with revised chips for 15,4", but never seen any T61p with production date 08/08, having in hands more than 50, hunting for such machine for a long time.
As for their durability: I'd say 08/02 up to 08/07 is a lottery. I still have in service several of those machines, used everyday by different people. In the last couple of years (2-3) I've had one (1) R61 15,4" fail. 08/02 production date. On the other hand, I've had at least 5 14,1" 4:3 units that failed in that time.
martin_boro wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:00 pm
Well isn't that convenient... There is a slight chance, that I will be going to Krosno during the Easter holidays. But nothing confirmed yet.
What pricerange am I looking at for a functional board by itself? I'd probably be fine even with a pre-08/08 board, since the notebook will be more of a collection piece than a daily driver.
Not to worry. As said, I have not even seen a 08/08 T61p ^^ And I'd be fine with $25 for the one I've got - 08/06 afair.
nVidia unit is perfectly capable up to these days, and the LCD panel it offers is one of the best TN screens I've used (LG, upgradeable to sharp - try ommitting the Samsung panel). It's only bested by Dell Precision M6600 FHD panel or 8740w WSXGA+ panel, but neither is 15,4" nor WUXGA :)
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
(stable under reduction)

Screamer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:15 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Known T61p failures?

#9 Post by Screamer » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:01 am

I see, if that is the case... I suppose that they were.

I saw a 15.4" 16:10 T61p with a 08/08 mark on eBay ages ago, and I believe that it was sold by TuuS. I am not sure about the 14.1" 4:3 T61p models, though.

wujstefan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Known T61p failures?

#10 Post by wujstefan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:05 am

Screamer wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:01 am
I saw a 15.4" 16:10 T61p with a 08/08 mark on eBay ages ago, and I believe that it was sold by TuuS. I am not sure about the 14.1" 4:3 T61p models, though.
This might have been from one of the special order batches. If it came from TuuS it was 100% genuine, he does have such marvels on stock :D
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
(stable under reduction)

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16596
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Known T61p failures?

#11 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:18 am

wujstefan wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:05 am


This might have been from one of the special order batches. If it came from TuuS it was 100% genuine, he does have such marvels on stock :D
I owned a 08/09 15.4" T61p in dead mint condition some years ago that ended up on feebay and sold for *way* more than I was asking for on this forum... :mrgreen:
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

Raidriar
Freshman Member
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Known T61p failures?

#12 Post by Raidriar » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:02 pm

15.4" T61p 08/07 build date still running fine 10.5 years later. I've owned it for about 2 of those years, immediately undervolted both the CPU and GPU. Never had a problem, temps are completely sane and safe.
Thinkpads: 760XD, 600E, T23, T30, T43p, T61p
Alienwares: M17x R1, M17x R2, M18x R1, M18x R2, Alienware 18
Razers: Razer Blade Pro 2017 FHD

wujstefan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Known T61p failures?

#13 Post by wujstefan » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:28 am

Well I have several of them in service. None of them is undervolted, some are overclocked.
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
(stable under reduction)

olddog
Freshman Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Known T61p failures?

#14 Post by olddog » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:15 am

Raidriar wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:02 pm
15.4" T61p 08/07 build date still running fine 10.5 years later. I've owned it for about 2 of those years, immediately undervolted both the CPU and GPU. Never had a problem, temps are completely sane and safe.
If you under-volt an electric motor, it will draw more current and over-heat. How a circuit board works I have no idea, but I would be interested to know why under-volting a computer is expected to help keep it cool.

wujstefan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Known T61p failures?

#15 Post by wujstefan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:36 am

olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:15 am
If you under-volt an electric motor, it will draw more current and over-heat. How a circuit board works I have no idea, but I would be interested to know why under-volting a computer is expected to help keep it cool.
Depends if you undervolt AC or DC motor, depends if it's brush or brushless, depends how's the motor load. Stepper motors tend to overheat more with lower current consumption wen under stable load and stable speed.

Now come on, the ridiculousity level is so high here I just need to get another coffee. And a big one. You're trying to compare a mechanical or semi-mechanical device to electronics.

Same current, lower voltage. This is no motor. Get throttlestop and check how the CPU behaves on reduced voltage - the difference is sometimes really that signifficant.
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
(stable under reduction)

olddog
Freshman Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Known T61p failures?

#16 Post by olddog » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:36 am

The rudeness level here is quite high too.

Not everybody in this world knows everything, and not everybody has studied electronics. The only way to increase one's knowledge is to ask questions, and hope for polite and helpful replies.

Sometimes it's a forlorn hope.
wujstefan wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:36 am
olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:15 am
If you under-volt an electric motor, it will draw more current and over-heat. How a circuit board works I have no idea, but I would be interested to know why under-volting a computer is expected to help keep it cool.
Depends if you undervolt AC or DC motor, depends if it's brush or brushless, depends how's the motor load. Stepper motors tend to overheat more with lower current consumption wen under stable load and stable speed.

Now come on, the ridiculousity level is so high here I just need to get another coffee. And a big one. You're trying to compare a mechanical or semi-mechanical device to electronics.

Same current, lower voltage. This is no motor. Get throttlestop and check how the CPU behaves on reduced voltage - the difference is sometimes really that signifficant.

Screamer
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:15 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Known T61p failures?

#17 Post by Screamer » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:19 am

I understand that you would naturally expect a polite answer, but that isn't always the case unfortunately. I don't think wujstefan's honest intent was to be rude, either.

I got bashed countless of times for asking 'stupid' questions, and then bashed again for not having 'common' sense. It wasn't nice, but I eventually ignored it and just continued along, in the hopes that I would be soon in their place to actually answer questions without the unnecessary ferocity. I just hope so.

I apologize for the unnecessary rudeness on wujstefan's behalf (he's normally not like this), plus this forum isn't supposed to be rude to anyone that lacks knowledge on a certain topic.

olddog
Freshman Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Known T61p failures?

#18 Post by olddog » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:35 am

It's very kind of you to apologise on Wujstefan's behalf, and I am sure he is delighted that you have saved him the trouble. :lol:

Screamer wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:19 am
I understand that you would naturally expect a polite answer, but that isn't always the case unfortunately. I don't think wujstefan's honest intent was to be rude, either.

I got bashed countless of times for asking 'stupid' questions, and then bashed again for not having 'common' sense. It wasn't nice, but I eventually ignored it and just continued along, in the hopes that I would be soon in their place to actually answer questions without the unnecessary ferocity. I just hope so.

I apologize for the unnecessary rudeness on wujstefan's behalf (he's normally not like this), plus this forum isn't supposed to be rude to anyone that lacks knowledge on a certain topic.

wujstefan
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1091
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am
Location: Tarnow, Poland

Re: Known T61p failures?

#19 Post by wujstefan » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:37 am

olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:36 am
The rudeness level here is quite high too.

Not everybody in this world knows everything, and not everybody has studied electronics. The only way to increase one's knowledge is to ask questions, and hope for polite and helpful replies.

Sometimes it's a forlorn hope.
olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:35 am
It's very kind of you to apologise on Wujstefan's behalf, and I am sure he is delighted that you have saved him the trouble. :lol:
Sarcasm and irony are both pretty far from polite - and generally not quite in place.

You've got your answer, even though in the same category you can see a sticky topic describing it point by point. And I'd be always happy to help and deeply describe any matter that's up to my knowledge - and if anything is not clear to you and you do not feel like looking for it at the forum you can ask directly, also no trouble at all. By comparing a piece of electronics to electric motor I presume you know how at least one of them works.

Sorry you've took it as rude, this was nothing but a lax answer. Maybe a bit sharp-tongued - I have 4 interns right now, all four directly after technical university studies, none of them has any idea of how BLDC motor works. I have sent one of them to bring me a bucket of phases. He asked me where he could find an empty bucket. *sigh*.

Anyway, we are pretty far from the question the OP has asked.
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
(stable under reduction)

olddog
Freshman Member
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Known T61p failures?

#20 Post by olddog » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:40 am

You are forgiven. Let's move on.
wujstefan wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:37 am
olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:36 am
The rudeness level here is quite high too.

Not everybody in this world knows everything, and not everybody has studied electronics. The only way to increase one's knowledge is to ask questions, and hope for polite and helpful replies.

Sometimes it's a forlorn hope.
olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:35 am
It's very kind of you to apologise on Wujstefan's behalf, and I am sure he is delighted that you have saved him the trouble. :lol:
Sarcasm and irony are both pretty far from polite - and generally not quite in place.

You've got your answer, even though in the same category you can see a sticky topic describing it point by point. And I'd be always happy to help and deeply describe any matter that's up to my knowledge - and if anything is not clear to you and you do not feel like looking for it at the forum you can ask directly, also no trouble at all. By comparing a piece of electronics to electric motor I presume you know how at least one of them works.

Sorry you've took it as rude, this was nothing but a lax answer. Maybe a bit sharp-tongued - I have 4 interns right now, all four directly after technical university studies, none of them has any idea of how BLDC motor works. I have sent one of them to bring me a bucket of phases. He asked me where he could find an empty bucket. *sigh*.

Anyway, we are pretty far from the question the OP has asked.

Raidriar
Freshman Member
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:43 am
Location: Richmond, VA

Re: Known T61p failures?

#21 Post by Raidriar » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:34 pm

olddog wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:15 am
Raidriar wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:02 pm
15.4" T61p 08/07 build date still running fine 10.5 years later. I've owned it for about 2 of those years, immediately undervolted both the CPU and GPU. Never had a problem, temps are completely sane and safe.
If you under-volt an electric motor, it will draw more current and over-heat. How a circuit board works I have no idea, but I would be interested to know why under-volting a computer is expected to help keep it cool.
I'm not an electrical engineer by any means, and I'm probably way oversimplying this, but P = V * I. By reducing the voltage and holding current constant, you will reduce the total power demand and therefore reduce the heat generated.
Thinkpads: 760XD, 600E, T23, T30, T43p, T61p
Alienwares: M17x R1, M17x R2, M18x R1, M18x R2, Alienware 18
Razers: Razer Blade Pro 2017 FHD

Thinkpad4by3
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:25 am
Location: N. Bellmore, ny

Re: Known T61p failures?

#22 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:53 pm

Raidriar wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:34 pm
I'm not an electrical engineer by any means, and I'm probably way oversimplying this, but P = V * I. By reducing the voltage and holding current constant, you will reduce the total power demand and therefore reduce the heat generated.
Yeah that's pretty much bang on. :thumbs-UP:
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “ThinkPad T6x Series”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TPFanatic and 26 guests