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Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 4:00 am
by TinkerMan
This thread is for people who want to know about the different batteries used in the T60 and T61 series, the availability of these batteries in various T60/T61 models and the current status of these batteries . This discussion includes both widescreen and non-widescreen T60/T61. this thread may also apply to R61 series.

there are mainly 2 types of batteries for these laptops, the 33 series and the 41 series, with + and ++ versions.
however there are several manufacturers.

So far , fro my own experience I found batteries of these series produced by SONY, very rare, by PANASONIC, relatively rare, and by SANYO, the most one can buy on ebay right now.
Again, from my experience, the best ones are the panasonics and the sony ones, I have seen batteries made by those 2 who lasted many many hundreds of cycles and would still hold a decent charge. SANYO on the other hand, while cheaper, decay very fast, I have seen some sanyos that after less than 40 cycles lost as much as one third of the initial capacity.

EDIT:
we must also talk about the 43 series of batteries that can be placed in the ultrabay of T60/61
personally I have 2 of these, both SONY, one of the them brand new, the other one has almost 150 charge cycles, and only lost 2% of the initial capacity.

I am curious to see what others have experienced with their own batteries.
maybe if enough info is gathered in this thread with sources for good batteries, maybe this will become a sticky, as a main source of info regarding batteries for these 2 thinkpad series.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:37 am
by dr_st
TinkerMan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:00 am
Again, from my experience, the best ones are the panasonics and the sony ones, I have seen batteries made by those 2 who lasted many many hundreds of cycles and would still hold a decent charge. SANYO on the other hand, while cheaper, decay very fast, I have seen some sanyos that after less than 40 cycles lost as much as one third of the initial capacity.
SONY batteries are not as good as one would believe. My experience with SONY batteries of those generations is that they never calibrate the gauge: even after hundreds of cycles they will show Full Charge Capacity = Design Capacity, but actually they may have lost 50% or more. This is worse than Sanyo, because the battery will just jump abruptly from like 50% to near 0%, and you have no idea how much life it actually has left.
TinkerMan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:00 am
we must also talk about the 43 series of batteries that can be placed in the ultrabay of T60/61
personally I have 2 of these, both SONY, one of the them brand new, the other one has almost 150 charge cycles, and only lost 2% of the initial capacity.
I also have a 43 by Sony (I think they were the only manufacturer of that battery type), and while it's much more decent and does somewhat calibrate the gauge, it is still not very accurate. Can you actually run your battery that allegedly lost just 2% from 100% down to 0% without unexpected "jumps"? Test it.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:04 am
by TinkerMan
dr_st wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:37 am
]SONY batteries are not as good as one would believe. My experience with SONY batteries of those generations is that they never calibrate the gauge: even after hundreds of cycles they will show Full Charge Capacity = Design Capacity, but actually they may have lost 50% or more. This is worse than Sanyo, because the battery will just jump abruptly from like 50% to near 0%, and you have no idea how much life it actually has left.
I didnt know that, thats very interesting, thanks for the info. anyway, I only have a couple of sonys, plus the 43 ones.
So, if we take into account your info, than it means that the true powerful and resilient ones are the panasonics.
dr_st wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:37 am
]I also have a 43 by Sony (I think they were the only manufacturer of that battery type), and while it's much more decent and does somewhat calibrate the gauge, it is still not very accurate. Can you actually run your battery that allegedly lost just 2% from 100% down to 0% without unexpected "jumps"? Test it.
I did, and it holds the charge, ok, maybe it lost more than the 2% it says in the power management software, but I dont think it lost more than 10% by the looks of it. I was able to power an X9000 frankenpad for more than 30 minutes just with the old sony 43.
but I will test it thoroughly in light of your intel.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:14 am
by dr_st
TinkerMan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:04 am
I didnt know that, thats very interesting, thanks for the info. anyway, I only have a couple of sonys, plus the 43 ones.
So, if we take into account your info, than it means that the true powerful and resilient ones are the panasonics.
That's definitely the case for the T4x/T6x (and before) timeline. I think things have changed later. Panasonic and Sanyo have merged, and new batteries coming out of the joint venture perform similarly regardless of the label. I'd say they are better than the old Sanyos.

Sanyos are actually opposite to Sony in the fact that the gauge would frequently show that the battery degraded more than it actually had. A symptom of it is that if you disable all battery timers, the battery would go down to 0%, and will still power the computer for 5, 10, sometimes 20 minutes before cutting out, showing 0% the whole time.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:32 am
by TinkerMan
dr_st wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:14 am
That's definitely the case for the T4x/T6x (and before) timeline. I think things have changed later. Panasonic and Sanyo have merged, and new batteries coming out of the joint venture perform similarly regardless of the label. I'd say they are better than the old Sanyos.

Sanyos are actually opposite to Sony in the fact that the gauge would frequently show that the battery degraded more than it actually had. A symptom of it is that if you disable all battery timers, the battery would go down to 0%, and will still power the computer for 5, 10, sometimes 20 minutes before cutting out, showing 0% the whole time.


oh yes, with just one exception , a new panasonic, all my panasonics are from 2006 and 2007, I even have one with 350+ charges, that lost just one third of the initial capacity, thats a monster of a battery.
I will see in the following months how the brand new panasonic behaves. will post later this year on this thread.

P.S., not related to this thread, what do you think about the GLC batteries? for the W530

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:01 pm
by dr_st
LGC.

Anyways, I used to track battery performance over time. You can see the latest updates here:
/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=122800

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:04 pm
by ajkula66
TinkerMan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:00 am
This discussion includes both widescreen and non-widescreen T60/T61. this thread may also apply to R61 series.
Consequently, you'd also have to include:

R60/i/e
R400 (same battery as widescreen T61)
T400 (as above)
T500
W500
Z series ThinkPads of the 15.4" variety (Z60m, Z61e/m/p)

I have very little experience with "widescreen" batteries, but for everything else, Panasonic rules by such a margin that it's not even funny.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 pm
by Thinkpad4by3
ajkula66 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:04 pm
TinkerMan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:00 am
This discussion includes both widescreen and non-widescreen T60/T61. this thread may also apply to R61 series.
Consequently, you'd also have to include:

R60/i/e
R400 (same battery as widescreen T61)
T400 (as above)
T500
W500
Z series ThinkPads of the 15.4" variety (Z60m, Z61e/m/p)

I have very little experience with "widescreen" batteries, but for everything else, Panasonic rules by such a margin that it's not even funny.
Well this isn't a TP battery but I will say Sony InfoLithium cells from their camcorder lines are lunacy. I have 6 of them, and all 6 even after being left out for years, some even decades past where 99% of Lithium Ion cells would be dead, these guys charge right back up and keep a quite respectable charge. They keep my Fugitsu tablet running for probably about 2 hours between the two cells which likely isn't far off from what they originally got.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:21 pm
by TinkerMan
ajkula66 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:04 pm
I have very little experience with "widescreen" batteries, but for everything else, Panasonic rules by such a margin that it's not even funny.
thats the holy grail, right? to find an original 9 cell panasonic in mint state

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:36 pm
by TinkerMan
dr_st wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:01 pm
LGC.

Anyways, I used to track battery performance over time. You can see the latest updates here:
/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=122800
thanks, that made for a very interesting read

I should add I have an LGC right now in my main machine, the W530, and after 600 cycles it holds 79% of the initial capacity. the older one, the original , hold around 30% after almost 1000 cycles.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Tue May 28, 2019 5:12 pm
by ajkula66
TinkerMan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:21 pm

thats the holy grail, right? to find an original 9 cell panasonic in mint state
I've got two left. One (made in 2008) has 500+ cycles on it, still shows in "green" and holds 52.4 out of 84.24 design, which is some 62%. Pretty good for an eleven year old battery that has seen plenty of use.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 4:14 am
by wujstefan
Still got couple of 9-cells and 6-cells; actually both Sony, Panasonic and Sanyo are very decent batteries. My main batt sports 51/56Wh with over 400 charge cycles.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:23 am
by TinkerMan
NEW DISCOVERY
a few weeks ago I discovered a seller on ebay which , among 6 cells and 9 cells batteries for T60/T61, also offered 12 cell batteries, I took a chance and bought one, it arrived today and I must say, ITS THE REAL DEAL, its not a panasonic from 2006-2008, its just a sanyo from 2017, but its good, it offers 95 Wh
will keep you posted to tell everybody how it behaves after a few cycles.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:31 am
by ajkula66
TinkerMan wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:23 am
NEW DISCOVERY
a few weeks ago I discovered a seller on ebay which , among 6 cells and 9 cells batteries for T60/T61, also offered 12 cell batteries, I took a chance and bought one, it arrived today and I must say, ITS THE REAL DEAL, its not a panasonic from 2006-2008, its just a sanyo from 2017, but its good, it offers 95 Wh
will keep you posted to tell everybody how it behaves after a few cycles.
How can a 12-cell battery possibly be "the real deal" when Lenovo never offered them for these machines ?

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:55 am
by TinkerMan
ajkula66 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:31 am
TinkerMan wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:23 am
NEW DISCOVERY
a few weeks ago I discovered a seller on ebay which , among 6 cells and 9 cells batteries for T60/T61, also offered 12 cell batteries, I took a chance and bought one, it arrived today and I must say, ITS THE REAL DEAL, its not a panasonic from 2006-2008, its just a sanyo from 2017, but its good, it offers 95 Wh
will keep you posted to tell everybody how it behaves after a few cycles.
How can a 12-cell battery possibly be "the real deal" when Lenovo never offered them for these machines ?
i meant as not a scam, it really has 12 cells , and offers a lot of juice, yes, lenovo never offered such a battery but aftermarket, one could buy such a beast
I am currently performing a battery test, so far so good, the battery can power an X9000 , 8 gigs ram, with a 1600x1200 screen, non lcd, so very power hungry, at full brightness, max sound and streaming from amazon prime video movies, so wireless ON, it lasted 4 hours and 50 min, so pretty darn good for an aftermarket battery.

Dude, we must admit the truth, finding original 9 cells panasonic batteries is becoming almost a dream, I have 2 panasonic , but 6 cells each, and I am activelly looking for them and still no luck for 9 cells, found just 2 more 6 cells ones, but already had those so didnt buy. the best one can find pretty easily are 9 cells sanyos, and now these 12 cells, I will post later a picture of the battery

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:06 am
by TinkerMan

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:45 pm
by ajkula66
TinkerMan wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:55 am
i meant as not a scam, it really has 12 cells , and offers a lot of juice, yes, lenovo never offered such a battery but aftermarket, one could buy such a beast
I'll pass but to each their own, by all means.
Dude, we must admit the truth, finding original 9 cells panasonic batteries is becoming almost a dream, I have 2 panasonic , but 6 cells each, and I am activelly looking for them and still no luck for 9 cells, found just 2 more 6 cells ones, but already had those so didnt buy. the best one can find pretty easily are 9 cells sanyos, and now these 12 cells
Well, I have no clue what the given market is like outside of U.S. so I'll take your word for it.

Two points though:

1) The newest system that utilizes these batteries was discontinued in 2010 or so. My guess is that the machines themselves may very well become near obsolete before we run out of "good" batteries.

2) How many batteries does one need for each system that utilizes the given kind ? My personal limit is 2, 3 at the most for something that is severely outdated, like a T4x/R5x unit.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:50 pm
by dr_st
TinkerMan wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:23 am
a few weeks ago I discovered a seller on ebay which , among 6 cells and 9 cells batteries for T60/T61, also offered 12 cell batteries, I took a chance and bought one, it arrived today and I must say, ITS THE REAL DEAL, its not a panasonic from 2006-2008, its just a sanyo from 2017, but its good, it offers 95 Wh
These 12-cell aftermarket batteries are not a new invention; I've seen them mentioned at least half a decade ago, but it's good to know they have still been produced as late as 2017.

95Wh compared to 84Wh for an original 9-cell does not sound like such a super enhancement (certainly considering the extra bulk of this battery), but as you say, finding new genuine 9-cells is not easy anymore...

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:16 pm
by zoltan87
TinkerMan wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:23 am
NEW DISCOVERY
a few weeks ago I discovered a seller on ebay which , among 6 cells and 9 cells batteries for T60/T61, also offered 12 cell batteries, I took a chance and bought one, it arrived today and I must say, ITS THE REAL DEAL, its not a panasonic from 2006-2008, its just a sanyo from 2017, but its good, it offers 95 Wh
will keep you posted to tell everybody how it behaves after a few cycles.
Wow, I have never heard about these 12 cell batteries. Probably I couldn't justify the extra bulk, and rather carry a spare battery with me, but still a very interesting option. If they used high quality cells in these packs, they could achieve 120+ Wh batteries. Now THAT would worth the sacrifice in bulkiness. With an extra ultrabay battery and this you could get 7+ hours from a T60. Or you could just use a modern system that weights 1/3 of mentioned setup, infinitely faster, and lasts even longer.
Sigh, how I wish Lenovo would make a Thinkpad with 4:3 screen and a classic layout keyboard. Those are the two reasons I just can't get excited about anything that keeps coming out, and keep carrying around a 3 kg laptop from 2006.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:50 pm
by TinkerMan
zoltan87 wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:16 pm
Wow, I have never heard about these 12 cell batteries. Probably I couldn't justify the extra bulk, and rather carry a spare battery with me, but still a very interesting option. If they used high quality cells in these packs, they could achieve 120+ Wh batteries. Now THAT would worth the sacrifice in bulkiness. With an extra ultrabay battery and this you could get 7+ hours from a T60. Or you could just use a modern system that weights 1/3 of mentioned setup, infinitely faster, and lasts even longer.
Sigh, how I wish Lenovo would make a Thinkpad with 4:3 screen and a classic layout keyboard. Those are the two reasons I just can't get excited about anything that keeps coming out, and keep carrying around a 3 kg laptop from 2006.
The capacity of the 12 cells is 95 Wh
So. With a 3 cell ultrabay battery it can get to 125Wh total

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:55 pm
by Droider
I have 3 batteries for the T61, 2 of them being dry dead and one is still kicking which i salvaged from a R60. Here are some information from all of them.

1- Panasonic, design capacity 56wh, remaining capacity 46wh, cycles 467, first used date : 05-2007, working.
2- Sony, design capacity 56wh, remaining capacity 0wh, cycles 594, first used date 11-2007, dead.
3- Sanyo, design design capacity 56wh, remaining capacity 0wh, cycles 489, first used date 09-2007, dead.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:44 pm
by ajkula66
Droider wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:55 pm
I have 3 batteries for the T61, 2 of them being dry dead and one is still kicking which i salvaged from a R60. Here are some information from all of them.

1- Panasonic, design capacity 56wh, remaining capacity 46wh, cycles 467, first used date : 05-2007, working.
2- Sony, design capacity 56wh, remaining capacity 0wh, cycles 594, first used date 11-2007, dead.
3- Sanyo, design design capacity 56wh, remaining capacity 0wh, cycles 489, first used date 09-2007, dead.
No surprise there. Panasonic rules when it comes to batteries.

Re: Batteries for the T60 and T61 series, types and availability

Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:46 am
by wujstefan
ajkula66 wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:44 pm
No surprise there. Panasonic rules when it comes to batteries.
+1
I have numerous working panasonic batteries. And numerous Sony/Sanyo, dead :D

I also have some ultrabay 3-cell batteries and find them still standing strong.