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1080p Playback Issue on Frankenpad T601p with Windows 10 LTSC

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:43 pm
by jcdbm
Hi,

I have a Frankenpad with a T60 exterior and a T61p interior. It has a T9500 CPU with a Quadro FX 570M GPU and 8GB RAM, and I am running Windows 10 LTSC* on it. I am experiencing some lag when I view online YouTube 720p videos on Firefox, and 720p 60fps and 1080p 60fps videos seem downright unplayable. I'm experiencing lag on offline 1080p videos on VLC as well. I've installed MPC-HC with the K-Lite Codec Pack and had it use D3D on hardware acceleration, but even then I am getting some lag. I've updated my GPU driver to version 21.21.13.4200.

I'd like some advice on what I could do to make 720p online videos playable and especially 1080p videos offline playable. I've searched around a bit and thought about getting a Broadcom Crystal HD Decoder but I don't know which one to get exactly and if it would help. I've read some people being able to play 1080p videos fine on their T61p while others seem to say their machines struggle.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Frankenpad T601p 1080p Playback Issue

Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm
by kfzhu1229
Did you use h264ify on Firefox and Chrome? The Quadro FX 570M supports native h264 decoding so using h264ify takes advantage of that.
As for offline videos I have encountered similar problems on my Dell Precision M4300 with 256MB Quadro FX 360M under Windows 10 1703 or later. I ended up using the Windows store version VLC player and that for some reason worked far better.
Your T61p mobo is the 14" one right? In that case you have 128MB of VRAM instead of the 256MB on the 15.4" and on that Dell and it seems like at higher resolutions you WILL run out of VRAM if you multitask with YouTube opened on Chrome or firefox! Download HWMonitor or Openhardwaremonitor and see your VRAM usage and make sure you have at least 10 if not 15MB of free VRAM under YouTube.
From my testing with 128MB of VRAM with a NVS135M in Windows 10 from a Dell Latitude D630 and D830, 1080p will play fine if VRAM isn't a problem - 1080p YouTube worked fine in WXGA resolution (yes it defeats the point though), but stepping it up to WSXGA+ and you will have like 1MB of free VRAM and the video stutters because the video card keeps dumping contents from the VRAM to your system RAM which is only 667Mhz DDR2. The same works just fine on that Dell Precision with 256MB of VRAM, albeit 1080p puts almost the maximum amount of pixels the hardware h264 decoder in these G86 cards can do (which is 1920x1920 if I recall correctly), and thus even moving your mouse will drop a lot of frames
AFAIK most lads here though are putting their frankenpads in Windows 7 or Linux and in Windows 7 there is not nearly as much strain on the VRAM and it doesn't have the crappy legacy codec supports that I found on Windows 10 1703 or later.

Re: Frankenpad T601p 1080p Playback Issue

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:24 pm
by atagunov
kfzhu1229 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm
in Windows 7 there is not nearly as much strain on the VRAM
How about fresh Linux?

Re: Frankenpad T601p 1080p Playback Issue

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:22 pm
by Lister
Hi, I had also trouble with playing HD video, which I was able to resolve. Unlike you, I use Windows 7, which is probably the best choice for the T601 Frankenpads. But you can try my tips:
1. In Windows, disable the Aero function and turn off other visual effects, this will release the VRAM.
2. Use Revo uninstaler to uninstall the K-lite Codec package, including MPC-MP. Restart the PC.
3. Reinstall MPC-HC without additional codecs.
4. Go to MPC-HC settings and on the Output tab set "DirectShow video" to "Video Mixing Renderer 9 (renderless)
5. Go to Internal Filters tab -> Video Settings -> Hardware Decoder To Use set to "None"
6. Save the settings, close the MPC-HC and try to play some 1080p video.

I enclose a screen from my Frankie with T9500 + nv140m and Win7 64b Czech language.
https://imgur.com/a/TATru22

My experience with 720p and 1080p 60fps online video is such that it cannot be played smoothly on devices based on HW T61. You can play some 1080p online video using Chromium (not Chorme).

Re: Frankenpad T601p 1080p Playback Issue

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:25 pm
by kfzhu1229
Lister wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:22 pm
Hi, I had also trouble with playing HD video, which I was able to resolve. Unlike you, I use Windows 7, which is probably the best choice for the T601 Frankenpads. But you can try my tips:
1. In Windows, disable the Aero function and turn off other visual effects, this will release the VRAM.
2. Use Revo uninstaler to uninstall the K-lite Codec package, including MPC-MP. Restart the PC.
3. Reinstall MPC-HC without additional codecs.
4. Go to MPC-HC settings and on the Output tab set "DirectShow video" to "Video Mixing Renderer 9 (renderless)
5. Go to Internal Filters tab -> Video Settings -> Hardware Decoder To Use set to "None"
6. Save the settings, close the MPC-HC and try to play some 1080p video.

I enclose a screen from my Frankie with T9500 + nv140m and Win7 64b Czech language
I thought VMR7 and VMR9 windowed gives more performance than renderless but at the cost of not able to use any overlays such as subtitles.
You are making use of the h264 hardware decoder built in the G86 generation NVidia cards right? Open openhardwaremonitor or hwmonitor and see the GPU core and video engine usage. It should be around 50-70% for 720p and 75%+ for 1080p for one of them.
I tried MPC-HC in Windows 10. It works perfectly for Windows versions 1607 or earlier, and for some reason it stutters like a slideshow for 1703 and later. This is why I have my ThinkPad T43p stuck on Windows 10 version 1607.
Also in Windows 8 and up the aero function cannot be turned off. But turning off transparency and such will help with VRAM as well. Also make sure no Windows store apps are running as those suck up VRAM like nothing else. Just one Facebook Messenger app will suck up the entirety of your available VRAM for 128MB.
Are you able to get 1080p YouTube working in Windows 7 under UXGA or WSXGA+ or higher resolutions with just 128MB of VRAM?
Also one thing I noticed from my Latitude D630 is that due to optimisations, 64bit Windows plays videos better than 32bit as long as you have enough RAM.
Here is how playback looks like on my Latitude D830 with 128MB NVS135M and a X9000 at 3.4Ghz in Windows 10 1903 x64 (Pretty much all G86 cards have the same decoding capability so long as you don't run out of VRAM and I didn't notice a single bit of difference when bumping up the core clocks, and if you are using hardware decoding like I am, the CPU speed doesn't matter as long as it is not one of the single core Celerons). One is ultra-widescreen 720p YouTube and the other is regular widescreen h264 1080p MP4 in VLC Windows Store version.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!At7-rt1KJ7WviPkgizQ ... A?e=rp70mj

Lister wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:22 pm
My experience with 720p and 1080p 60fps online video is such that it cannot be played smoothly on devices based on HW T61. You can play some 1080p online video using Chromium (not Chorme).
The hardware decoder simply doesn't have enough bandwidth to process any of the 60fps formats. up to 30fps only.

Re: Frankenpad T601p 1080p Playback Issue

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:58 pm
by jcdbm
I appreciate the quality and amount of responses. I consider myself a layman when it comes to tech so I find the discussion helpful.

I checked and it seems I have the 128MB VRAM motherboard.

I've installed h264ify extension on Firefox, my primary browser, but it seems to have little to no effect. I am considering downgrading to Windows 7 but I am extremely reluctant as my system is already set up to my preferences, and I actually like the Windows 10 UI and am not a fan of how Windows 7 looks. Maybe I'll cross this bridge if I can't figure out an answer. And, while I respect Linux users and their reasons, I use this computer to play older games and I mess around with files quite often so I'd prefer to stay within Windows.

I don't have Windows Store on my OS since I am running Windows 10 LTSC so I'm unable to try out the Windows store version of VLC. I ran Windows Debloater to further strip and clean my system of unnecessary bloat, although I suspect that is not enough. I've also disabled transparency in the Personalization settings, and am using 125% scaling on 1600x1200 resolution.

I've started looking up what alternate browsers that use fewer resources that I could use. To be honest, though, I am pretty happy with Firefox as it is because of extensions, privacy, etc. I'm about to give that MPC-HC suggestion a try, after I search a little more on if any VLC settings could change things. My primary concern is the offline 1080p playback more so than any online playback.

For unrelated reasons, I also ordered a X9000 CPU on eBay that I plan to use as a drop-in replacement for my current T9500 CPU. I know the performance boost will be marginal but I am wondering if it will help offset the GPU's struggles with 1080p or not. I'm planning to undervolt it to reduce temperature.

Re: 1080p Playback Issue on Frankenpad T601p with Windows 10 LTSC

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:12 pm
by Droider
I think this is an issue with your LTSC windows 10 setup . I can play youtube 1080p smooth with a Toshiba Tecra A9 lappy with T9300, x3100 vga,4gb ram, ssd,1680x1050 display with the windows 10 updated all the way. And this is a much lower config than your T601p.

There is a chance that your cpu is overheating and throttling speed, check your temps if you haven't already.

Re: 1080p Playback Issue on Frankenpad T601p with Windows 10 LTSC

Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:08 pm
by Lister
Droider wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:12 pm
I think this is an issue with your LTSC windows 10 setup . I can play youtube 1080p smooth with a Toshiba Tecra A9 lappy with T9300, x3100 vga,4gb ram, ssd,1680x1050 display with the windows 10 updated all the way. And this is a much lower config than your T601p.

There is a chance that your cpu is overheating and throttling speed, check your temps if you haven't already.
Also, on my Frankie with an Intel GPU I have no problem with playing 1080p YouTube and offline videos. I think it's because the Intel GPU doesn't own video memory and uses RAM as video memory (384 MB). It also has no HW decoder and everything is decoded by software.

Re: 1080p Playback Issue on Frankenpad T601p with Windows 10 LTSC

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:21 am
by kfzhu1229
Droider wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:12 pm
I think this is an issue with your LTSC windows 10 setup . I can play youtube 1080p smooth with a Toshiba Tecra A9 lappy with T9300, x3100 vga,4gb ram, ssd,1680x1050 display with the windows 10 updated all the way. And this is a much lower config than your T601p
I had X3100 iGPU motherboard in my Latitude D830 but I hated the cut rate quality of the iGPU. Like if you put 1080p YouTube on that thing for example, it plays fine but I noticed the output quality is nowhere near 1080p, in fact it is more blurry than 720p!
jcdbm wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:58 pm
I've installed h264ify extension on Firefox, my primary browser, but it seems to have little to no effect. I am considering downgrading to Windows 7 but I am extremely reluctant as my system is already set up to my preferences, and I actually like the Windows 10 UI and am not a fan of how Windows 7 looks. Maybe I'll cross this bridge if I can't figure out an answer. And, while I respect Linux users and their reasons, I use this computer to play older games and I mess around with files quite often so I'd prefer to stay within Windows.
Well I am just confused by why it won't work for you while it worked fine for me with a weaker GPU! Maybe try Chrome with h264ify and a custom HD+ 1600x900 resolution (with active resolution of 1600x1200 you won't have a stretching image, just the extra vertical pixels will be inactive, I think the giant bezels on that 4:3 display will add more decoding load to the GPU)
jcdbm wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:58 pm
For unrelated reasons, I also ordered a X9000 CPU on eBay that I plan to use as a drop-in replacement for my current T9500 CPU. I know the performance boost will be marginal but I am wondering if it will help offset the GPU's struggles with 1080p or not. I'm planning to undervolt it to reduce temperature.
This might not be a good idea. Ordering X9000 CPU is very sketchy on eBay and you might be getting a fake instead if you are unlucky.
I am wondering how an X9000 can cope with the more power hungry Quadro FX 570M. When I drop in the X9000 to Precision M4300 with a 20W Quadro FX 360M, I can only overclock either the CPU to 3.2Ghz or the GPU to max. Overclocking both at the same time will give me a VRM trip (black screen) as soon as I start a stress test. And then the temps will be pretty bad if you use the regular Latitude D830 NVS135M heatsink - the NVS140M and the Quadro FX 360M heatsink for the Dell has copper fins for the GPU cooling and a direct contact copper pad whereas the NVS135M heatsink has aluminium fins and aluminium contacts with a thermal pad inbetween (Bad design! I replaced that pad with a copper shim right away)
There is also the fact that you can forget about battery life if you use X9000 with Quadro FX 570M and Flexview

Re: 1080p Playback Issue on Frankenpad T601p with Windows 10 LTSC

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:27 am
by jcdbm
I tested out the hypothesis that it was the Windows 10 LTSC OS by installing Windows 7 Ultimate on a spare SSD. The issues with both online and offline playback instantly disappeared -- 720p 30fps YouTube videos on Firefox work without a hiccup and 1080p videos are where it gets questionable, and offline 1080p videos on VLC seem to run just fine.

I'm convinced it is the OS in particular because you guys have posted about having lower specs but running the videos fine. I'm thrilled about being able to play 1080p videos online and offline now, but this feels more like a nonanswer since I wasn't able to get them working on Windows 10. I'm biased towards Windows 10's experience and visuals; Windows 7 not getting security updates anymore, lacking an in-built dark mode, having issues with my bluetooth headset that I didn't have with Windows 10, Wireless Network Adapter literally missing on fresh install all make me pretty unhappy to reformat my main SSD with Windows 7.

If there are any other suggestions or things I could check to try to fix the playback issues on Windows 10, I'd be very grateful. At this point I am on the fence on if I should try another fresh install of Windows 10 or if I should just go ahead and commit to Windows 7.

Re: 1080p Playback Issue on Frankenpad T601p with Windows 10 LTSC

Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:07 am
by RealBlackStuff
Yup, try Windows 8.1.