Thinkpads Forum

OK! now i have it confirmed. After looking through the maintenance manual of the T60, it shows that the main air intake is at the BOTTOM of the T60 base.

Give it two months and your heatsink will look like this....

http://irisvista.com/tech/laptops/Toshi ... ink-06.jpg

No T6x for me.... EVER!

Maybe if you use it in a really dusty place or the inlet is covered (such as using it in bed) but there is always an air inlet - i fail to see how the positioning of it would cause that.

Remember the T30 had the inlet on the bottom and that didn't really seem to cause any problems.

Your very particular about what you want (not that there is anything wrong with that but I feel you might find it difficult to find a product that you are 100% happy with) and you've made it clear you don't want a T60 for various reasons but I don't think that creating horror stories for those that might is a good idea.

I am sorry that I’m expressing my disappointments about the T60 in such a harsh way, but even I had high hopes of the new T60. And one of the main distinct differences between a consumer laptop and a quality business laptop is the durability and usability of the machine. I think grandma might be using her machine on the kitchen table 90% of the time, where as the newer generation of people like for instance my self, use my laptop in the bed 90% of the time.

I have to agree with Rose that having the intake on the bottom is a bad idea. I had an Acer TM800 and it too has its intake on the bottom. The air flow was greatly restricted if it was placed on a soft surface. (Bed, carpet, etc), and if I was was going heavy crunching, I would have to put it on a hard surface to get better cooling.

Rose wrote:I am sorry that I’m expressing my disappointments about the T60 in such a harsh way, but even I had high hopes of the new T60. And one of the main distinct differences between a consumer laptop and a quality business laptop is the durability and usability of the machine. I think grandma might be using her machine on the kitchen table 90% of the time, where as the newer generation of people like for instance my self, use my laptop in the bed 90% of the time.

I find it odd that you specify a business notebook when you use it 90% of the time in bed, don't get me wrong, i use my machine in bed sometimes but i use it 8 hours a day on a desk, on a desk in hotels, on a tray table on a plane, on a table in a coffee place etc etc, I think this would be typical of a business user - not a consumer who may be more likely to use a system on the sofa or in bed. However, for my T30 (on which the memory slots seemed to get warmer than the cpu area when on a soft surface) I simply placed it on book when using it in bed which was no major hardship. I now have a table which overhangs my bed and is quite handy, there are also trays designed for sitting a notebook on a soft surface.

Anyway - from my evaluation of the T60 so far, I am of the opinion that the majority of users who liked the T4*, will like the T60 even more so and as a fan of ThinkPads (who has also used many other notebooks), I think it will be bad if people are persuaded to buy another manufacturer because of horror stories about inlet locations (the picture you posted would not happen for years in an area of normal dust, or more likely never for most business users) or exaggerations over the impact of wireless switches, windows keys or minor colour changes.

snife wrote:

Rose wrote:I am sorry that I’m expressing my disappointments about the T60 in such a harsh way, but even I had high hopes of the new T60. And one of the main distinct differences between a consumer laptop and a quality business laptop is the durability and usability of the machine. I think grandma might be using her machine on the kitchen table 90% of the time, where as the newer generation of people like for instance my self, use my laptop in the bed 90% of the time.

I find it odd that you specify a business notebook when you use it 90% of the time in bed, don't get me wrong, i use my machine in bed sometimes but i use it 8 hours a day on a desk, on a desk in hotels, on a tray table on a plane, on a table in a coffee place etc etc, I think this would be typical of a business user - not a consumer who may be more likely to use a system on the sofa or in bed. However, for my T30 (on which the memory slots seemed to get warmer than the cpu area when on a soft surface) I simply placed it on book when using it in bed which was no major hardship. I now have a table which overhangs my bed and is quite handy, there are also trays designed for sitting a notebook on a soft surface.

Anyway - from my evaluation of the T60 so far, I am of the opinion that the majority of users who liked the T4*, will like the T60 even more so and as a fan of ThinkPads (who has also used many other notebooks), I think it will be bad if people are persuaded to buy another manufacturer because of horror stories about inlet locations (the picture you posted would not happen for years in an area of normal dust, or more likely never for most business users) or exaggerations over the impact of wireless switches, windows keys or minor colour changes.

By 90% I meant the time in which I use my laptop at home, no matter if its business related work, for private use or the computer just laying there turned on, doing its work. Well at work I use my desktop computer. Other than that I too use the computer in the car, on the train, carrying the computer with me placing it in my lap. One of my most frequent places would be in the bloody toilet. Might be that my habits are a bit more radical than the average user. But I’ve seen to many laptops with the same kind of construction to know that this is not a good enough solution. In fact it’s a hell of a limitation not being able to use a 3000$ laptop on a surface of your desire.

Since this is a conference forum and not a promotion forum about the T60, I think its nothing wrong about enlightening and debating about the construction of the T60 regardless of if it’s a positive or negative insinuation. I mean the Yonah CPU, the new graphical chips and a third USB-port are all things that are blessed by the users. Unfortunately the air intake location, the lack of a S-video and also still a missing DVI port are not.

I am sitting with a T60p, and even though it is a pre-production sample, the design is final. And there are no intake in the bottom of the machine, there is one on the side of the machine (Where the USB are on a T43) and one at the back of the machine (where the printerport is on a T43).
This dual intake seems to work, it is much quiter than the T43.

SuperLudwig wrote:I am sitting with a T60p, and even though it is a pre-production sample, the design is final. And there are no intake in the bottom of the machine, there is one on the side of the machine (Where the USB are on a T43) and one at the back of the machine (where the printerport is on a T43).
This dual intake seems to work, it is much quiter than the T43.

Lucky Ludwig

That is a relief, I do like the multi-intake design...But the PCIMCIA bay on the T4X Series is the biggest intake of them all anyway, so putting the intake on side and the outlet on the other isn't that huge of a leap.

SuperLudwig wrote:I am sitting with a T60p, and even though it is a pre-production sample, the design is final. And there are no intake in the bottom of the machine, there is one on the side of the machine (Where the USB are on a T43) and one at the back of the machine (where the printerport is on a T43).
This dual intake seems to work, it is much quiter than the T43.

what screen size is that laptop? 14.1 or 15"?

SuperLudwig wrote:I am sitting with a T60p, and even though... [snipped] .

And how do you find the keyboard? Is it as good as the previous Thinkpads (and I assume you have experience with them).

I tried a Z60 Thinkpad side by side with a T43 at Office Depot, and I didn't like the Z60 keyboard. Compared with the T43, the keyboard feels mushier and sounds nosier. It doesn't have quite the tactile feedback as the T43 keyboard.

But what's most annoying about the Z60 keyboard is that the keys are sticky, and consequently your fingers don't move as fast between the keys as they do on the T43. I'm not sure why, but it feels as if the plastics the keys are made of have a lot of rubber in them.

So far all indications are that the T60/p line have the same keyboard as the Z60, and if that's the case, it would be the beginning of the end of the Thinkpad keyboard glory.

Well, keep in mind that various keyboards exist on all the Thinkpads; NMB, China, etc. All made by different companies.

I tried out a Z60t versus my T43 at an Office Depot and was impressed with the keyboard which actually seemed to be very similar, if not made by NMB, to the NMB Thai keyboard on my T43. I don't know, however, if anybody has thoroughly explored all the keyboard options on the Z Series Thinkpads.

All in all, I think they will keep up the keyboard options they have had on the T4X Series; changing the keyboard at this point would serve very little to no point and I think Lenovo knows that.

It's a 15"

I think that the question of keyboards are a matter of taste. Personally i think it is better than on the T43, but i also liked the Z60t keyboard better than the T43.
The overall impression of the machine is that the quality is at least as good as the T43. It just feels 'nicer' somehow.

Just checked a 14" T60 and again no fan inlet on the bottom - that will teach me to get baited by rash presumptions.

Rose wrote:I think grandma might be using her machine on the kitchen table 90% of the time, where as the newer generation of people like for instance my self, use my laptop in the bed 90% of the time.

Watch the assumptions and perjoratives. This grandma uses her TP in many different locations.

And while you're at it, don't post images without a warning to dialup users in the subject line. Links only. I fixed it for you!

Nonny: Im sorry about the image. I didn’t know a significant amount of people in this conference where still using 1200 baud modems. The image was 32k and would consume a whole 4.8 seconds of your time with a 56k modem. But ill be posting links from now on so hopefully you wont need to remove them.

My assumptions are no assumptions but what is shown on the images and illustrations of the T60. The illustrations that prove my “assumptions” are these.

http://212.247.50.175/it/rose/t60/t60base_ill1.jpg
Illustration of the base with major air-intake in the rear corner. Taken from the maintenance manual.

http://212.247.50.175/it/rose/t60/t60base_ill2.jpg
Illustration from inside underneath the fan assembly. Seems at least to me that air passes in from beneath and out the vents in the back and the right side. Also from the maintenance manual

http://212.247.50.175/it/rose/t60/t60base.jpg
Picture of the base. Here you can clearly see the fan through the holes of the air intake. Picture is from Lenovo site.

Of course there is the possibility that I might be wrong. That some part of the construction of the T60 has been changed prior to production. Few people would be happier than me. But I doubt it.

SuperLudwig wrote:It's a 15"

I think that the question of keyboards are a matter of taste. Personally i think it is better than on the T43, but i also liked the Z60t keyboard better than the T43.
The overall impression of the machine is that the quality is at least as good as the T43. It just feels 'nicer' somehow.

Like Smilodon, I also compared a T43 and Z60 side by side at Office Depot. Whatever one's preferences are, the keyboards definitely had a different feel.

I like the T43 better. The Z60 felt more clicky clacky and had less subtle touch and feeback. The T43 felt more firm and solid. I mean, the Z60 felt like a good keyboard, but to me not as good as the T43. And again, they definitely had a different feel. They're not the same.

So I'm hoping the T60 does not have the same keyboard as the Z series, although it appears that they do.

I just wanna point out something to all the noobs out there... There is an air intake at the bottom of ALL notebooks! And the outlet is usually on the side or rear. It is the same way for ALL notebooks! The air intakes at the bottom are usually very small, but there are several of them... And the fan is usually placed at the air outlet. No need of a fan at the intakes as long as the fan at the outlet provides enough depression to have the air getting in at the inlets.

Please, stop telling people things you don't have a clue about...

I think the key thing people are forgetting is that they are using cage fans these days in laptops instead of normal "fans". This means you can make it really wide, but very short in height. With the thin laptops these days, it is the ONLY option to move a lot of air through the laptop.

Unless you made some tract inside that directed air from the side to come up below the cage fan, you don't have any other option but to go from the bottom.

Hmm had the impression that the air intake of T4X and probably earlier models as well had an intake above Mic and headphone-output along with the whole PCMCIA port, one of the reasons why there is such a gap between the enclosure and the "springy flip" and small holes in the bottom of the flip.... Can't find a single hole on the bottom where it feels like air intake when the fan is spinning at near to maximum speed, probably didn't look close enough (most likely)
Does anyone know where it is on the T4X series, so i don't cover it unnecessarily ?

Rose wrote:Nonny: Im sorry about the image. I didn’t know a significant amount of people in this conference where still using 1200 baud modems. The image was 32k and would consume a whole 4.8 seconds of your time with a 56k modem. But ill be posting links from now on so hopefully you wont need to remove them.

Sarcasm gets you nowhere since I'm one of the people who uses dial-up from time to time.

I can see were this will be a problem!

About 2/3 years ago, when doing service for Compaq or Toshiba; for the life of me I can't remember which one it was!!

But there was a model that would come in on a frequent basis, it was always due to random "shutdowns" and "lockups", 99.999% of the time it was always the same problem! Clogged inlet to the fan, when I looked at the picture it started bringing back memories!

I have a similar picture of one of the laptops I worked on, I wanted to send it to the manufacturer, due to the fact that it was a bad design! and it was costing them a TON of cash in warranty repairs that could have been avoided.

The solution was simple, but customers always nodded their heads and 3 months later the machine was back for the sale problem!!!

I just cleaned out a Toshiba notebook's heatsink a few days ago and it looked exactly like the picture the original poster linked to.

The problem with the older Toshiba heatsinks is that the fins are way way way way way too thin and close together. It might sound good in theory, but in reality any dust gets stuck on the fins. Current notebook heatsinks don't seem to be designed this way so this should not be a problem any more.

OK, i see that Rose had evidence to back up the assumptions (it is still an assumption if you haven't physically confirmed it IMHO) but those of us who have seen T60 systems confirm that those holes are no longer there so this is a non-issue.

This Rose character sure gets excited about stuff and likes to take it out on other posters....

My T60 review model should be in soon and I always test heat, I'll let ya know.

fbrdphreak wrote:This Rose character sure gets excited about stuff and likes to take it out on other posters....

My T60 review model should be in soon and I always test heat, I'll let ya know.

Nice...I'm looking forward to your review.