Thinkpads Forum

NEEDLESS BACKSTORY:
Recently I had some problems with wireless connectivity with my previous thinkpad, using an Into PRO/Wireless 2915 ABG. The mysterious problems were characterized by random disconnects and an inability to reconnect, stalling at the "Associating Wireless Device" stage. I tore out my hair, replaced every component in the system, including the wireless card with a matched model replacement. After a lot of contact with the labs at IBM regarding the problem, they want my current unit to study as it apparently exhibits with consistency this problem they've been trying to track down.
END NEEDLESS BACKSTORY.

So as far as a replacement system goes, they cancelled my order for a replacement T60 and provided me one on the house... but then they told me I had better change out the wireless card included in the new replacement, an Intel PRO/Wireless 3945ABG, for another model, which they named over the phone as part number 40Y7026. Their stated reason was that they were aware of some "touchiness" with the card in my current system, and as far as these problems go, these same defects are far worse in the 3945 ABG. I was told "off the record" that, given my pressing need for a stable connection, I would "definetely want to switch that part out" as it is "far touchier" as far as problems like the ones I've experienced go.

This is all too gossipy to be solid, as far as I'm concerned, as the tech working on the problem might have been overly cautious, but I felt it was worth throwing out there.

Atheros cards seems to have fewer problems, but they still have some issues (at least the IBM 11a/b/g II card that shipped on the T43).

see this thread for some other info:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=20680

That's a very interesting story. Especially the part where you get a free T60.

It's true that when I read around on this topic, in general people seem to favor the Atheros cards. The 40Y7026 looks like it's the Atheros AR5006EX. But there are also people reporting problems with this card on the Z60t. The Atheros card gets caught in a loop while trying to connect to a weak signal and jams the CPU up to 100%, slowing down the whole system. People seem to think it's a driver problem, but haven't gotten a driver update yet.

See these threads:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=16638
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=20619

I'm hoping this won't be a problem with the T60, since I ordered one with the Atheros card.

It's odd though if it's true that the Intel card is so touchy. Because almost all of the new T60 models come with the Intel card. There are very few options with the Atheros. Despite that, it's also a little weird that they didn't just send you a T60 with the Atheros card.

donking! wrote:That's a very interesting story. Especially the part where you get a free T60.

I left out the part about shelling ~$600 out of pocket for replacement parts and routers to try to fix the problem.

Believe me, having driver problem such as CPU load when caught in loop is absolutely better than causing the router reboot itself constantly. Right now I am using linksys pc card to connect to the internet wirelessly which have no problem at all after the nightmares with 3945ABG. I did too ordered the Atheros based wireless chipset from Amazon. Hopefully it will clear up the problem.

helloooooooooo 1802 error...

to the above poster - cancel the order. it wont work. you have to get an IBM specific card in order for the machine to boot normally, if you put an OEM card in there (say, direct from intel or dell or something) itll kick back an 1802 error - unauthorized card.

Huh? No, I'm not going to cancel the order. I did ordered the "IBM specific card" from Amazon. check the links
.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BR ... oding=UTF8
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 8425101115

Guys,

I have been discussing my problem in another thread.

My WiFi has been absolutely useless in my T60 2623D7U.

It doesn't connect. Then it might connect, and when it does,
it knocks all the other computers off the network.

Spoke to Lenovo tech support. The guy on the phone thinks
I might have an electrical shortage in my network card. A
replacement T60 is on the way.

However...

After reading all these threads, I can see that it's an issue
with the Lenovo laptops and most likely, the replacement that
I receive will have the same issues.

What do you guys suggest I do? After spending nearly $3K
on this laptop I am not in the mood to spend more money to
replace a network card. I'd rather dump this laptop and buy
another brand.

sovereignty68 wrote:Huh? No, I'm not going to cancel the order. I did ordered the "IBM specific card" from Amazon. check the links
.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BR ... oding=UTF8
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 8425101115

sorry, ignore me then... I didnt know amazon carried IBM certified parts. my bad.

no need for the "youre a dumbass" face, twas a mistake.

NJRonbo wrote:Guys,

I have been discussing my problem in another thread.

My WiFi has been absolutely useless in my T60 2623D7U.

It doesn't connect. Then it might connect, and when it does,
it knocks all the other computers off the network.

Spoke to Lenovo tech support. The guy on the phone thinks
I might have an electrical shortage in my network card. A
replacement T60 is on the way.

However...

After reading all these threads, I can see that it's an issue
with the Lenovo laptops and most likely, the replacement that
I receive will have the same issues.

What do you guys suggest I do? After spending nearly $3K
on this laptop I am not in the mood to spend more money to
replace a network card. I'd rather dump this laptop and buy
another brand.

As far as I know, it has been a known issue with Intel 3945ABG, if other brand notebook carries same Intel WLAN MiniPCIe, I believe you'll experience same problem. Did you send it back the T60 already? Or are they sending you a advanced replacement? I have quality build problem with my notebook and was looking forward to replace it.

no need for the "youre a dumbass" face, twas a mistake.

No, sorry, I didn't mean "youre a dumbass" and I never thought that way. Just a "I don't think so" face. Sorry if I offended you.

Did you send it back the T60 already? Or are they sending you a advanced replacement?

Just placed an order on Friday for an advanced
replacement. I keep my current T60 till that
replacement arrives.

What should I do here? Obviously, the replacement
will have the same network card installed.

Anything I can have Lenovo do while my replacement
is in the building stage -or- should I just dump Lenovo
and go with something else?

I have *never* had this sort of problem before. I have
three other laptops in my home that work *flawlessly*
with my wireless network.

Why not try the Atheros card. Have you done that? Seems like with all you've been through Lenovo ought to give you one. They're not very expensive anyway, I think.

You can try ask them to replace the WLAN card with 40Y7026. They will have to charge you as you are purchasing it seperately. Or better yet, buy 40Y7026 ($46-$49) off from other site and install it yourself. If it is a trouble for you, you might want to start looking at other brand.

I didn't know Lenovo would offer advanced replacement. I have very bad qualtiy T60 here and I was hesitated to send it back because I need to use the notebook at work. BTW, I have exact same model as yours.

NJRonbo wrote:Anything I can have Lenovo do while my replacement
is in the building stage -or- should I just dump Lenovo
and go with something else?

Didn't sovereignty68 say in the other thread that it was an incompatibility with all laptops that use the Intel 3945 chipset? In which case, how is changing vendors going to help, unless you ditch the Core Duo too?

You should try a non-Centrino wireless like donking! suggested.

Astro,

Would simply changing to another router (I have Linksys)
solve the problem?

Also...

Are you saying that most all dual-core processors come
with this same Intel network card so that going with a
different brand will probably garner the same results?

Are you saying that most all dual-core processors come
with this same Intel network card so that going with a
different brand will probably garner the same results?

You can do a google search "3945ABG Linksys problem". You'll see what I'm talking about in this thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=23087

Are you using WPA or WPA2? If you are, you might want to try WEP and see how it goes.

Although I'm not sure Intel 3945ABG will have similar result with different brand of wireless routers... but to me for sure that is Linksys has some incompatibility with it. It can't be coincidence that Linksys and Intel 3945ABG users are having similar problems. I cannot say or sure it is all 3945ABG's fault, it may have something to do with Linksys for not cooperating with Intel's. At this very moment, there are very few Wireless mini PCIe card supporting new intel pci express laptop motherboard. So far I only found Intel 3945ABG and Atheros based chipset - AR5006EX are available.

I too, like donking!, suggest you to try use non-Intel(Atheros) based wireless without the hassle of returning the notebook and buying another. Lenovo offer Atheros-based anyway. You can see my or donking!'s previous posts for part #.

NJRonbo wrote:Would simply changing to another router (I have Linksys)
solve the problem?

This seems a little drastic, esp. since you have all of your other boxes setup already.

As donking! and sov.68 suggest, when your new laptop arrives, and if the software update does not work (though sov68 seemed to think it did), then I would definitely tell Lenovo that "you heard there was a problem with 3945 and the router you have" and refer to the Google results, etc. and try and get them to take the machine back and install an Atheros network card for you.

NJRonbo wrote:Are you saying that most all dual-core processors come
with this same Intel network card so that going with a
different brand will probably garner the same results?

Sorry, I feel like an [censored]... I ASSumed that you knew about Centrino technology. In a nutshell, Intel's "Centrino" platform is the combination of a particular Intel processor, Intel controller chipset and Intel wireless chip. Only laptops with a valid combination of these three can have a "Centrino" sticker on them. The latest in the Centrino line is the combination of the Core Solo/Duo processor, Intel 945 Express chipset and Intel 3945 wireless chip. As sov68 said, most laptops available (from all vendors) will be using this combination of chips to achieve "Centrino" branding.

Have a read here (click on "Product Info" at the bottom left of the animation):
http://www.intel.com/centrino/

You guys have been great so far. Appreciate the
help and only have a few more questions to ask...

Atheros based chipset - AR5006EX are available

Okay...

Assuming I can get Lenovo to install this chipset in my
computer -- is this a good WiFi chipset? Would you expect
it will fix my current problem?

Is it a good card? Does it perform well?

I'm even willing to go out and buy the network card with
the chipset if you guys can provide me with a link to a
retailer and can confirm that it will be compatable with
my current T60.

If I can just swap out the network cards on my own, is
there a place I can find the drivers for this?

Thanks. Will be looking for your replies. I'll also call Lenovo
this morning and talk with them.

Here's the direct link to Lenovo product page:
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 8425101115

And here's the link to Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BR ... oding=UTF8

I do not know how well it perform yet, because I just ordered the card yesterday. I will get it by Tuesday or Wednesday, til then I will have the result. But according to many users and my past experience with Atheros chipset, their product is excellent. Atheros usually have better range than Intel's and has better stability. But those are just my opinions. You'll have to experience them yourself to tell how well or worse they are. I ordered it from Amazon because they have good return service... just in case the card don't work out, I can return it to Amazon.

I'm running a 2623DDU with the Centrino moniker so I'm using the Intel wireless adapter. I use a Linksys router and access point on one network that currently supports 2 other T'pads and 2 PBooks without any issue.

Are you on the latest BIOS, driver revisions, etc? I believe you would be after all of the work that you've done to support your purchase. Have you tried downloading the driver package from the model support matrix, deinstalling and removing the adapter. Boot without it, clear the Reg & shut down. Reinstall the adapter, reboot, cancel "New Hardware Found" routine. Install the driver bundle from the the download point and restart.

I've ordered the Atheros card for near term compatibility with other OS(s), but I don't want to mess with the success I've had with the Intel right now.

The only thing that I don't like about the T'Pad wireless so far is common across most laptops. When you put them in a dock with the lid down to use an ext. display, kb, mouse, etc. the signal holding is awful even at relatively close range, so you have to work with the lid partially open. This can be dicey as the lid close/suspend switch has a high activation point and in my case puts the open display in the way. I wish there was an external antenna connected through the dock.

Someone please repost that Lenovo link for the
PC card as the way it is formatted, it will not open properly.

I'll order the Atheros card today. Hopefully this will be the answer.

Is there instructions' on Lenovo's site on how to install?

Where do I find the right drivers?

Thank You guys!

...and yes, been through firmware revisions with Linksys.
I think I have done everything I can thus far to resolve the
issue.

You know what?

On second thought...

Please do post that IBM link again for the Atheros card (it's
not formatted correctly).

However...

I'm calling Lenovo tech support later today and giving
them hell.

They are shipping out units that have a known "issue"
with some routers.

They owe me an Atheros card and I want one shipped
to me at no charge, express delivery.

That's the least they can do for the amount of money
they charge for their product.

Let's see if my demands are met or not. I'll let you
know later this evening.

Do a search on Lenovo with "40Y7026".
In search results, #1 is the driver download, and #3 is product description.

Hardware maintenance manual for T60:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62733

Hope this helps.

Guys,

I called Lenovo suppport.

I gotta say...one of the BIG plus issues about IBM
is their tech support. I love the fact that I can call
and not get a foreigner on the phone. That was the
reason why I didn't want to get a Dell -- always
outsourced tech support.

Every phone call I made was answered by a very
polite and accomodating person who was eager to
assist.

Now....

They never heard of an "Atheros" card. However,
after mentioning the product located here....

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 8425101115

...they figured I needed a standard generic A/B/G wireless card.

Since I asked it be offered and shipped overnight at no
charge to me, they had to fill out a complaint form which
IBM will answer by phone within the next 48 hours.

Personally, I can't see why they won't take care of me on
this if they want to keep me as a customer.

Thanks, everyone, for your help. I'll keep you updated.

I see that you guys are not familar with IBM's technical support. Here's how you go around things.


1. Call them up and tell them you have a problem with such and such. You've tried so many things to fix it, etc. Make it technical.

2. Next, tell them you've narrowed it down to a whichever part that you want to replace.

3. Lastly, give IBM support the FRU# of your broken item, i.e., the FRU# of the item that you actually want. NOT THE ACTUAL FRU# of your WiFi card, but the FRU# of the Atheros card. Simple isn't it?

Okay...

So there is an Atheros card? It's not the card listed in
the link I provided above or am I confused again?

How do I find out the FRU# of the Athero scard for my T60.
I have Customer Service calling me back shortly so if you
guys can help me out here, I might be able to get *exactly*
what you think I should be getting.

Please be specific with everything because many of us are
newbies here and we really rely on the advice you give.

Part #40Y7026 is for the Atheros WiFi card in the T60 series. $49.99 from Lenovo's website.

NJRonbo wrote:Okay...

So there is an Atheros card? It's not the card listed in
the link I provided above or am I confused again?

How do I find out the FRU# of the Athero scard for my T60.
I have Customer Service calling me back shortly so if you
guys can help me out here, I might be able to get *exactly*
what you think I should be getting.

Please be specific with everything because many of us are
newbies here and we really rely on the advice you give.

The link I provided you is the one you should be look for. I'm completely sure Model#/Part# 40Y7026 is Atheros based card that all of us are looking for T60. If you need more help on how to install it, many of us will assist you.

I posted this link many times. Check the compatibility section, T60 is clearly listed.
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... 8425101115

I just talked to IBM support and they finally helped me get my system running, although I am not 100% pleased with the result. ("Backstory": I have a new T60 2007-76U with Intel 3945 abg card and Linksys WRT54GL router/gateway. I was able to ping the router and even DNS servers provided by the cable company, but NOT able to access the Internet with the laptop!) After talking for a while with the IBM tech, the solution that worked was to remove Access Connections and use the standard Win XP Pro utilities to manage the wireless connection. The tech had a "suspicion" that the problem was a conflict between my wireless card (and drivers) and the Access Connections software. (I suspect they have had a few phone calls from all of the postings!) He suggested that they would work out the problem and just to wait until a new version of Access Connections was uploaded (he didn't specify a timetable).

Now, the good news is that IBM tech support was excellent in this case, much better than anything I've encountered to date in the computer world. The bad news is that it appears Lenovo is shipping a partially defective (or at least not fully functional) product. I am contemplating sending it back on that principle, since one pays the premium price for a better-than-average quality system. I am still in my 30-day return period and could just wait a few months until they "get the kinks out" of these systems.

poekhali

Why don't you do what I am in the process of doing...

Make a polite demand that Lenovo send you a 40Y7026 card
at their expense?

It *seems* that might correct the problem as it also seems
obvious that the Intel cards in these laptops are causing problems.

BTW, I removed access connections and it didn't fix the problem.