Thinkpads Forum

I have some very NEW and very BEAUTIFUL news that just came from Lenovo!

I have been bringing up this topic for three days now on multiple forums and have gotten many responses, almost all the same. I understand that many have researched this and gone to the tabook and informed me that this is a mistake. It is not a mistake.

This SPECIFIC MODELT60 14.1" ($2,949.00 web price, now on sale for $2,099.00) model IS IN FACT AN IPS SCREEN.

Please click on the link, go to "Continue" as if you were going to buy it, then look the the left side of the screen where it shows the specifications. Look where it shows display:
Display type: 14.1 inch SXGA+ IPS (1400x1050) TFT Display with wide viewing angle and high density display (Standard)

I saw this a few days ago and this is why I have been bringing up these discussions. I found out it is true and not a mistake.

It is NOT MENTIONED IN THE TABOOK, however, on the technical specs that the sales use, which is correct, IT IS IPS and they have in fact confirmed it. I made them confirm it multiple times because I was almost convinced by the people on this forum that it was a mistake.

IT IS IPS so TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS!!!

IT IS A SWEET SALE AND THE ONLY 14.1" IPS SCREEN THEY CURRENTLY OFFER!

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Though there is one problem that I am worried about.

I know IPS technology improves viewing angel significantly, though i have heard that it decreases response time, as well as contrast ratio. I do not know how much it decreases it but that information would be very very helpful in my decision for a 14/15" T60 model.

I also know the flewview screen is IPS, though i do not know if IPS is the only reason they call it flexview. If so, then the 14.1" IPS i described above is also a flexview.

I also need to know if the flexview screens also lose response time and contrast ratio becuase if it reduces them enough, I will not be getting an IPS screen.

Any correct information about these screens response time/contrast ratio would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Dude, your just hitting all the forums with this.

Buy it and as soon as it is shipped they will post your serial number. You will then be able to get the make and model of your screen and verify whether or not it is IPS. Even if it isn't it is still a good price. Win-win situation.

Okay, that link didn't work for me. But if you go to the web site and look at the 200764U that's listed there, it does say:

"Display type: 14.1 inch SXGA+ IPS (1400x1050) TFT Display with wide viewing angle and high density display (Standard)"

Hmm. This contradicts the tabook. Typo? Change in the model? I have the 200762U (basically the same model) and would have liked that screen if it were available.

Mandrake wrote:Dude, your just hitting all the forums with this.

Well, I did not know about thinkpads.com until yesterday.

I have know about notebooksreview.com for years.

I am just trying to let everyone know in case they only go to one site.

Besides, I have only made two threads about this news, one at each site

If it's true it's a good news. I am quite doubtful though. Why would a 14.1" T60p have a normal screen while this 64U has an IPS?

IBM messed up specs on their web page from time to time. Sales people probably didn't verify it in person either.

I have a question though, and it needs to be answered by somone who actually owns a T60 or T60p 15" or 14"

If you own a Flexview screen, how is the contrast ratio and response time?

Do you get any blur when scrolling or moving too fast, or gaming?

Also, how does this compare to the non-flexview (non-IPS) screens concerning the same differences?

Thanks you!

kashton wrote:I have a question though, and it needs to be answered by somone who actually owns a T60 or T60p 15" or 14"

If you own a Flexview screen, how is the contrast ratio and response time?

Do you get any blur when scrolling or moving too fast, or gaming?

Also, how does this compare to the non-flexview (non-IPS) screens concerning the same differences?

Thanks you!

Contrast is a little lower (like 400 vs. 500) and response time is not a problem for me. I've been playing some high action movies (The Island, WoW, LoR, etc.) and I've seen no blurriness whatsoever using factory installed WinDVD. Scrolling is, of course, no issue. Crystal. Gaming I'm not into but if there were a weak spot that would pinpoint it right away...

If you are someone who watches a lot of movies or does photo or video editing on your pc, you may notice the few greyer shade of the blackest black. Most, however, would not notice with normal computing. IPS is noticably brighter than TN, however. Which actually (probably) accounts for the 1/5 less contrast (brighter panel washes out same blacks to look slightly greyer).

VIEWING ANGLE is something you did not even ask about and it's the BIGGEST DELTA. You've never seen anything like it because only CRTs & IPS LCDs don't invert color at extreme viewing angles...and nobody picks up their 100lb CRT and look at it from 180 degrees at the bottom!

At about (estimate) 185 - 190 degrees (panel pushed all the way back and down on a table) I can still make out every color. State of the Art!

I knew about the wide viewing angles of the IPS screen technology, I am just trying to figure out if the response time decrease and contrast ratio decrease are worth the wide viewing angles. Thanks for responding!

Actually, I don't think wide viewing angles are that useful in notebooks. I don't want that my neighbour for example in airplane or train sees what I'm doing with my laptop. If there's narrow viewing angles like in non-IPS displays that's (almost) only positive from my point of view.

There are actually micro-louvere covers made by 3M that fit a laptop screen and
limit the viewing angle quite a bit.

pekka wrote:Actually, I don't think wide viewing angles are that useful in notebooks. I don't want that my neighbour for example in airplane or train sees what I'm doing with my laptop. If there's narrow viewing angles like in non-IPS displays that's (almost) only positive from my point of view.

I can understand that people would not want wide viewing angles for security reasons. That makes sense.

But,

1) I really don't think the poor viewing angles on the TFT ThinkPad screens would stop someone from seeing what you're doing if they're sitting next to you on a plane or train. On these screens, the image quality degrades quickly if you move your head or the screen even slightly. But it degrades no where near the point where you can't see what's on the screen. You would definitely need something like the 3M cover Christopher mentions (and even that, is it good enough for such close quarters?).

2) Even if people have a preference for the lesser viewing angles of the TFT, that's no reason not to offer some models of the 14.1" screen with IPS (as is done with the 15" that comes in both). I think it would be easy to make everyone happy on this matter.

pekka wrote:Actually, I don't think wide viewing angles are that useful in notebooks. I don't want that my neighbour for example in airplane or train sees what I'm doing with my laptop. If there's narrow viewing angles like in non-IPS displays that's (almost) only positive from my point of view.

You need to look at this...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=46522

When I use my Dell D610 I'm constantly adjusting the screen depending on how I'm sitting! It really is a pain in the butt.

I also wish that this is true, but I will bet my current T60p that this is not a flexview 14" display. The lastest tabook (March 06) has it listed as a regular 14" with 150nits. The flexviews have 200nits.

(A) I'm 99% sure it's not a Flexview on the 14".

(B) As far as I know, IPS displays have higher contrast then TN, not lower. At least according to all specs I've got on the IBM LCDs. Look here:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

(C) In general, IPS displays have higher response times than TN. That may be bad, but it also may vary quite a lot between different manufacturers. The best IPS LCDs have response time that are low enough for everything, but the very extreme. I don't think that such LCDs are available on laptops. Then again, the TN LCDs on laptop aren't exactly comparable to the desktop 2ms models either. IMO, the ghosting due to high response time may differ between TN and IPS, but it will be somewhat subjective and hard to measure, unlike all other fields where IPS will hold a noticeable advantage.

(D) Comments like "I prefer narrow viewing angles so that my neighbor on the airplane cannot see what I'm doing" make me laugh. Kinda like saying "I'd rather not have a car, because if I do, it might get stolen". Not to mention that horizontal viewing angles of ALL of today's screens allow your plane neighbour to see what you're doing just fine. If you don't want people to see what you're doing on your laptop, don't use it near them.

I took advantage of the lenova sale and ordered a 2623D7u which was priced $100 less then the model in question here. The major difference is that the 2623 comes with a 9cell battery instead of the 6cell, and 512m of RAM instead of 1gig, and hopefully a IPS on the 2007. After Reading Kashton's post here, I opted to change my order to the 200764u in hopes that it does come with an IPS screen! I figure I can take the chances that the screen is in fact IPS and pay ~$100 more for more memory and possilby an IPS! Also, they are throwing in an additional 512meg RAM stick as a promotional offer right now. Click on customize and buy and you will see it. So, you get 1.5gigs of RAM with the purchase of the 200764u. Not bad at all in my opinion.

hey myrighteye, I am glad that I could help in some way, let me know how it goes - i will probably order one myself

I am so friggin tired I had to stay up all night studying for a psych exam ARGGG

sorry i had to vent, i thought i would share it with you all

kashton:

I've made lots of posts regarding ThinkPad T4x displays, some including pictures comparing FlexView to non-Flexview, etc.

I am willing to bet my T43 that this 200764U is NOT flexview (aka IPS). why? because I can't find ONE SINGLE display manufacturer who makes a 14.1" SXGA+ IPS panel. just check ID Tech, LG.Philips, BOE Hydis, Samsung, TMD, etc.

also, see this thread which has some info on the new 200nit (non-IPS) display:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=20267

This wouldn't be the first time that the online description of a Thinkpad was wrong, particularly WRT IPS displays.

As the IBM/Lenovo sales folks see the same screen that we can pull up for a particular machine, they're only parroting the description they see on their display, they don't have any "special" knowledge or insights.

When in doubt, check the TABOOK.PDF, it's the final word.

Regards,

James

JHEM wrote:James at thinkpads dot com
2.9K+ posts and all I've got to show for it are some feathers.

soon to be 3000! wow, that's impressive.

hoya wrote:soon to be 3000! wow, that's impressive.

And this is no. 3001!

I do have a life....., Really! I do.....

Regards,

James

can I get bananas until I get to 3000 and then get like a monkey?

kashton wrote:can I get bananas until I get to 3000 and then get like a monkey?

Monkeys and Bananas? Not really; you do, however, get feathers.

JHEM wrote:This wouldn't be the first time that the online description of a Thinkpad was wrong, particularly WRT IPS displays.

As the IBM/Lenovo sales folks see the same screen that we can pull up for a particular machine, they're only parroting the description they see on their display, they don't have any "special" knowledge or insights.

Having recently spoken to a number of people at IBM in sales, parts, and technical support, about the manufacturers of the different keyboards, I can say that it's true nobody over there seems to know much about the nature of particular parts in the notebooks. When I said I was looking for a particular manufacturer, everyone responded with either a sort of silent denial that I had said anything or an immediate and vociferous disavowal of access to any remotely probable means for gaining such knowledge.

When I said the word "tabook," I got similar confused and "just back away slowly" sort of responses.

It baffles me that the customer support people at IBM don't even know about the resources that are freely available online, let alone have other resources. But it does seem to be the case.

I also second the remark that there are a lot of odd mistakes on the website. Remember those of us who when we did parts lookups on our T60s it said we had Pentium M processors?

Heck, even the parts lookup application on my T42 doesn't detect the optical properly. It says that it's a CDRW/DVD, while it's the Multi Burner. The online databased has this mistake, and it probably uses information from that database. I once called IBM support to ask about the warranty on this Multi Burner, he was suprised to know that I have it in the first place...

Well, there isn't any 14,1" SXGA+ IPS panel avalable. When looking over the T60 14" TFT part lists, one can see that the estimated TFT-panel suppliers are Samsung, BOE-Hydis and TMD. However, none of these LCD panel suppliers offers an IPS/FFS 14" SXGA+ panel to date.

See also the available 14.1" SXGA+ panels from:

- Samsung
- BOE-Hydis

...which are all just TN panels.

I just got word from my Lenovo account manager that Lenovo will have a T60 200703U in 2nd week of April. The pricing on this model with be 1849.00, cost. I have included the basic specs below.

200703U - $1849.00
P T2500, 14" SXGA, 512MB, X1400 128MB, 100GB 7200 RPM, GIBIBIT, CENTRINO ABG, Bluetooth, MULTIBURNER, Finger, 6 CELL, 3 YR DEPOT/EasyServ.

The only drawback is that this is an EDUCATION model! It will be avaiblable from 04/06. I am not sure of delivery times.

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Currently using a T43 2669C6U

per the TABook, there are NO flexview (IPS) 14 inch display panels..
none, nada, zip..
the website gets screwed up all the time and they are not responsible for those errors (including any pricing errors)..

it has been common NOT to put the top thinkpad models on the website..
who knows really why..?!
they all have various speculative answers but no one with the real answer seems to ever say anything..