Thinkpads Forum

According to this review http://www.notebookreview.com/default.a ... nkPad+T60p,
ATI FireGL V5200 with 256MB < ATI X1600 256MB. Scroll down to the benchmark section and you'll see the 3D Marks 05 result comparing a T60P to an Acer TravelMate 8204WLMi.

This is mind boggling to me. Their CPUs are the same. If a FireGL V5200 256MB is essentially an X1600 256MB, why would the scores be so much different? System hardware design? size of RAM? anything that's missing?

ehsu wrote:This is mind boggling to me. Their CPUs are the same. If a FireGL V5200 256MB is essentially an X1600 256MB, why would the scores be so much different? System hardware design? size of RAM? anything that's missing?

It's the nature of the drivers. The 5200 claims to be optimised for "Professional 3D applications" and not for games. If you load ATI's generic drivers for the x1k series on a computer with the v5200, the gap should be much narrower.

As the name states, FireGL cards are strong in OpenGL, not DirectX. Most of the modern games use DirectX.

On the other hand the X1600 is a gaming card, so it does have intsructions fine tuned for gaming.

Run an OpenGL benchmark and see the result.

There should be no real difference. The hardware is the same, only the drivers change. And that review doesnt tell us the resolution at which 3Dmark05 is run. I can change a lot. You can google it easily.

X1600, 1024x786, 32bits
3DMark05: approx. 3700

4100 was exceptionnal for a x1600. And the drivers can change things a lot. Try installing x1600 drivers instead of V5200 or Omega's. The reviewer did not optimize the drivers.

As others have said, the x1600 and V5200 are the same chip. IBM is notorious for clocking the p-model chip lower than they do on the non-p models for reliability.

That wouldn't be a problem *except* presently the overclocking utilities I've tried don't recognize the V5200.

Still, it's a decent step up from the 9600/128M in my T42p.

-darren

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to purchase the T60 and I want to get the T60p model mostly due to the video card offered. I am trying to decide whether I should get a 14.1" (mostly for portability sake) or a 15" screen. My old Inspiron 8200's UXGA LCD was really nice but the system was larger overall. However, if I cannot get a 256MB FireGL with a 14.1" then I know that I'll be getting the 15" for sure .

Besides that, a couple questions for all you Thinkpad gurus :

Do you see or will they ever use an nVidia video chipset in the future? I know they had one on a G4x series notebook a while back, but not anymore. The reason why I favor nVidia more is because of their driver support. (I also help modify drivers on a site called www.laptopvideo2go.com , so I know how good the drivers can be over ATi's).

About getting the V5200 to run as the x1600, what are the differences in clock speeds and would you guys recommend clocking it up (if it is underpowered as darrenf has stated) to normal speeds a safe thing?

Thanks all I appreciate all the info you can give me,
John

Kamika007z wrote:Do you see or will they ever use an nVidia video chipset in the future? I know they had one on a G4x series notebook a while back, but not anymore. The reason why I favor nVidia more is because of their driver support. (I also help modify drivers on a site called www.laptopvideo2go.com , so I know how good the drivers can be over ATi's).

Actually, I am very interested in the answer to this question myself. nVidia's (Linux) driver support is much better---or at least existent---when compared to ATI for newer chipsets.

I am looking to replace my aging T40.

I want basic business functionality on the road (basically VPN access and email), but we will use it for games at home. I was planning to order the T60P because I wanted better gaming performance, but based on this, it sounds like the T60 would perform better than the T60P. I can update drivers and such, but I'd really rather not have to work on it to get decent gaming performance.

I've been comparing, and I'd appreciate any thoughts over what I'd really be losing if I went with T60 instead of T60P. I don't care about fingerprinting or a lot of the business type additional functionality. My T40 meets my basic business needs, so I assume the T60 would meet these easily as well.

I've got the T60P and was wondering if you could load the T60 x1600 drivers on this model.

-Todd

Kamika007z wrote:Hey everyone,

I'm looking to purchase the T60 and I want to get the T60p model mostly due to the video card offered. I am trying to decide whether I should get a 14.1" (mostly for portability sake) or a 15" screen. My old Inspiron 8200's UXGA LCD was really nice but the system was larger overall. However, if I cannot get a 256MB FireGL with a 14.1" then I know that I'll be getting the 15" for sure .

Besides that, a couple questions for all you Thinkpad gurus :

Do you see or will they ever use an nVidia video chipset in the future? I know they had one on a G4x series notebook a while back, but not anymore. The reason why I favor nVidia more is because of their driver support. (I also help modify drivers on a site called www.laptopvideo2go.com , so I know how good the drivers can be over ATi's).

About getting the V5200 to run as the x1600, what are the differences in clock speeds and would you guys recommend clocking it up (if it is underpowered as darrenf has stated) to normal speeds a safe thing?

Thanks all I appreciate all the info you can give me,
John

You can get the V5200 on both model, 14" and 15".
The difference between the x1600 and V5200 is minimal. You can overclock it easily, at least it was the case for the V3200.
And I dont think lenovo will go with nvidia in the near future. Ati gpu are just the best "mobile" gpu you can find. Nvidia has better stuff performancve wise, but there are all for desktop replacement laptop.

Kyrai wrote:I am looking to replace my aging T40.

I want basic business functionality on the road (basically VPN access and email), but we will use it for games at home. I was planning to order the T60P because I wanted better gaming performance, but based on this, it sounds like the T60 would perform better than the T60P. I can update drivers and such, but I'd really rather not have to work on it to get decent gaming performance.

I've been comparing, and I'd appreciate any thoughts over what I'd really be losing if I went with T60 instead of T60P. I don't care about fingerprinting or a lot of the business type additional functionality. My T40 meets my basic business needs, so I assume the T60 would meet these easily as well.

Theres no way a T60 performs better than a T60p. The T60 doesnt have a x1600, but a x1300.
And the T60p is just about its graphic card... And the Flexview IPS screen if you get the 15" model.

Thank you for the reply everyone. Much appreciated!

So there isn't a Flexview version for the 14" LCD?

Thanks,
John

Correct - no IPS 14".

FYI: I was able to overclock the V5200 using PowerStrip, but ATI Tools doesn't work so I don't have an easy way to find the upper bound. Does anyone know of another way to (easily) identify the highest reliable OC speed for memory and core?

-darren

Whats the base GPU and memory speed?

PowerPlay on
core: 209.3
mem: 135

PowerPlay off
core: 398.3
mem: 324

I read somewhere that the native clock on the x1600 is 470/470 but I haven't confirmed that.

-darren

Yeah, i read that too... :s

The clockspeed of the x1600 is 470/470 vs 400/325 for the V5200...
It is supposed to be the same chip, isnt it? And hopefully, the exact same memory chips.

Is should be possible to have the V5200 work at 470/470 without any problem, no?

Two things might prevent that. One, if you are running on battery (even for a moment while moving between desks) and the chip is OC'd the laptop will likely lock up, or such has been my experience with T4xp models. Two, the cooling system may not be capable of adeqautely cooling the chip at those speeds, but this will show up in defects and lockups.

The latter isn't usually a problem because ATI Tool can be used to identify the point at which corruption begins (well before lockup). Unfortunately, ATI Tool doesn't recognize the V5200 and won't run the test.

The V5200 is really pretty zippy, even without OCing. My hope is that, by the time games require more speed, the OCing tools will support the V5200.

-darren

I just received my T60p (a bit disappointed because of the chicony keyboard). Looks like the last beta of ATiTool works with the V5200...

And there is something wierd... the program says the V5200 has 16 pixel pipelines, instead of 12. Is that possible?

I am going to test the overclocking capabilities of the V5200 very soon.

Kel Ghu wrote:I just received my T60p (a bit disappointed because of the chicony keyboard).

Which (model #) type T60P did you buy?

2007-83G

Kel Ghu wrote:2007-83G

I don't know what the Lenovo policy is in your area. However here in the US if a user calls and complains about the keyboard there is a chance that they will send another brand out. If not they are only $40 US to buy one and install it yourself.
My T60 also came with the Chicony, I'm evaluating it first before I call for a replacement. Largely because it seems to be a rather nice keyboard. Certainly different that my NMB on another one of my Thinkpads. So I'm taking a wait and see approach presently.

It doesnt work that way in europe, especially in switzerland.
I will have to tell them the keyboard has some serious problem. Did it once already...

Anyway, this thread is about the graphic card. And I say, the graphic card rocks.

looks like the V5200 is not overcloking-friendly... My system kind of freeze or crash.
Memory overclocking makes the screen go blue(of death) with a memory parity error.
GPU overclocking makes the screen go light blue (windows usual blue) and freeze.

I can just confirm that it's not going to work at 470/470 as a x1600.

BUT it looks like the V5200 has 16 pixel pipelines instead of the announced 12. ATiTool shows 16 pixel pipelines even if I change the drivers and stuff (currently have omega's)... It makes it equal to a x1800 with lower clock and memory datapath of only 128bits wide. I hope it is not a bug from ATiTool.

I would not use the ATItool (this after a fried FireGL chipset). As mentioned above powerstip is a better tool if you know what you're doing. But seeing as the cooling for a laptop is limited - I would stick with powerplay defaults.

Remember - overclocking may damage your system and most laptops are air cooled.

a31pguy wrote:I would not use the ATItool (this after a fried FireGL chipset). As mentioned above powerstip is a better tool if you know what you're doing. But seeing as the cooling for a laptop is limited - I would stick with powerplay defaults.

Remember - overclocking may damage your system and most laptops are air cooled.

Agreed, thanks for the informative post.

Archer

Kel Ghu, it sounds like you OC'd your chipset to 470/470 without using ATI Tool to test for max speed, correct? That is indeed a bad idea as the laptop power bus may not support drawing that much power to the GPU.

Also, as a31pguy said, the cooling may not be adequate to run that fast either. Still, ATI Tool is, IMHO, the best tool for determining your max clock speeds. I haven't had any trouble using it to OC my T42p but YMMV. I've used ATI Tools, ATI Tray Tools, RadLinker and PowerTools. All have pros and cons but any OC-related problems have been due to the speed setting, not the program used.

Thanks for the heads up on ATI Tools -- I'll go grab that latest version right now!

-darren

No, I used the ATiTool to find the max GPU and memory speed, but i can't even change the GPU speed by a few Mhz without having the system frozen. Im not crazy nor did I push the graphic card upto 470/470.

I OC'ed my T43p's V3200 by 70/50 and have been using it to play games without any problem this last 9 months. Thanks to ATiTool.

And personally, ATiTool is better than powerstrip to me. Finding max core and max memory is all we need

Gotcha. Yeah, I'm having trouble with it too. I can adjust the clocks with success but as soon as I start the automatic max-finding-tool-thing I get a lockup. I don't think it's caused by a GPU overheat condition because in one of my two tests the computer became unresponsive for 5 seconds before the screen went black. During that time the mouse cursor was responsive and moving on the screen. If the GPU had frozen I shouldn't have seen the mouse cursor move.

Sounds like we need to wait for another beta release. On the positive side, the "scan for artifacts" function does seem to work. It should be possible (with a lot of patience) to OC with PowerTools and test with ATI Tool.

-darren

Do Omega drivers now work with the ATI V5200 or not?

thx,

Kersten