T60 / T60p Return (or) Replacement Experiences

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#31 Post by **archer6** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:59 pm

dxben wrote:What is the deal with this "chicony" keyboard? What is that? Are there different keyboards shipping on the same unit?

What are alll these problems? I have a T41p from IBM and is everyone saying that Thinkpads have gone downhill since the Lenevo takeover?

Chicony, Alps, & NMB are the three suppliers of keyboards. Just like any other mass produced item, they use multiple suppliers on most components to keep up with production goals. The reports you see here are from individuals that all have different preferences. Myself, I have used all three and there isn't a "bad brand" just different in how they feel and sound. Currently in new T60 I have a Chicony and it's just fine.

Regarding the "All these problems". Much like you only see the cars with warranty faults at the dealers service department. The people here are mostly the ones that are experiencing some type of problem or characteristic.

After more than 10 years of using ThinkPads, my experience with my Lenovo Z60m and T60 is very good. I feel these are better products than the previous ThinkPads I have had. I spend all day every day on a ThinkPad so the only point being, it's not just a second computer for me.

Hope this helps.
Archer

NJRonbo · #32 Post by **NJRonbo** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:03 pm

Archer,

Both T60 models are the exact same.

The one I am keeping I prefer the keyboard and
alightly stronger WiFi -- although I just boiught a
PRE-N router and card and the WiFi signal doubled!

dxben · #33 Post by **dxben** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:19 pm

Ok this is overwhelming.

It seems that I want the Alps keyboard at least, the NMB at best.

Given that, and given the Tabook. how do i find the unit that has the following features:

2.1Ghz
5200 gfx
100gb 7200 drive
verizon built in
15th uxga
finger print
dvd-rw
and either alps or nmb keyboard?

This is so confusing

#34 Post by **archer6** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:32 pm

dxben wrote:Given that, and given the Tabook. how do i find the unit that has the following features:
2.1Ghz
5200 gfx
100gb 7200 drive
verizon built in
15th uxga
finger print
dvd-rw
and either alps or nmb keyboard?

Here is the EXACT model for you: 2007-94U
That is directly from the tabook and I insured that all your specs were met.
There is one exception and that is you do not have a choice of keyboards. It's whatever they build it with, as they have three different suppliers.
After you receive it, if you do not like the keyboard you can always call and ask for a different one. If they will not accomodate you, a new keyboard is only $40.
Personally, I have used all three on the various ThinkPads i've owned and used daily as my main computer. They are simply different in the sound, and feel. I have no particular favorite and I really use the keyboard a lot. For me the most important thing is the feel as opposed to the sound, as I type a very high rate of speed.

Hope this helps you.
Archer

pundit · #35 Post by **pundit** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:24 pm

archer6 wrote:You may get lucky and be refunded sooner, a friend of mine who is currently waiting and it's been 8 weeks, still no refund. When he calls it's in "processing".

I am fairly certain that's an anomaly. After talking to them a couple of times, their policy seems to be around 1(one) working week after they officially deem your product returned. Which is a few days after you ship your product off to them.

I have a tangible upper-bound on my return time frame; and it's all been inside a 2 week real-world time frame. Perfectly reasonable, I'd say.

There is no need for anyone to get worried.

pundit · #36 Post by **pundit** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:25 pm

archer6 wrote:
pundit wrote:I have legitimate uses for this delay, like proving my student status to Apple; you might be the tiniest bit annoyed.
I have returned product to Lenovo in the past and the wait was horrendous, this is why I asked you ealier about your wait.
What hoops must one jump through to qualify for the Apple Education Discount? I am a bit behind the curve on that one.

The usual; a copy of your student ID, a recent class schedule or such to be faxed to them before the goodness of your membership can be redeemed.

#37 Post by **archer6** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:00 pm

pundit wrote:The usual; a copy of your student ID, a recent class schedule or such to be faxed to them before the goodness of your membership can be redeemed.

Thanks Pundit !

off1c3r · #38 Post by **off1c3r** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:28 am

So what really turns everyone off from the T60? Is it the P version with the 7200 drive that makes too much noise for peoples likings.. or just cheaper build quality?

dxben · #39 Post by **dxben** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:53 am

archer6 wrote:
dxben wrote:Given that, and given the Tabook. how do i find the unit that has the following features:
2.1Ghz
5200 gfx
100gb 7200 drive
verizon built in
15th uxga
finger print
dvd-rw
and either alps or nmb keyboard?
Here is the EXACT model for you: 2007-94U
That is directly from the tabook and I insured that all your specs were met.
There is one exception and that is you do not have a choice of keyboards. It's whatever they build it with, as they have three different suppliers.
After you receive it, if you do not like the keyboard you can always call and ask for a different one. If they will not accomodate you, a new keyboard is only $40.
Personally, I have used all three on the various ThinkPads i've owned and used daily as my main computer. They are simply different in the sound, and feel. I have no particular favorite and I really use the keyboard a lot. For me the most important thing is the feel as opposed to the sound, as I type a very high rate of speed.

Hope this helps you.
Archer

Ok sounds good. I noticed that the 2007-93U is on sale though, and the only difference (I think) is the lack of Verizon. But isn't that basically a PCMCIA card anyway that can be added at a later date? Or is that built into the internals of the 2007-94U? Seems for the sale price its worth adding later, especially since I don't plan on using it right away anyway, and currently have a verizon data plan for my Windows Mobile XV6700 pocket PC that can be tethered by bluetooth or USB anyway..

And just to double check this, the UXGA is the better of the two 15" options?

astro · #40 Post by **astro** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:20 am

dxben wrote:And just to double check this, the UXGA is the better of the two 15" options?

SXGA+ is 1400x1050 resolution, on a 15" screen that is 117 pixels per inch
UXGA is 1600x1200 resolution, on a 15" screen that is 133 pixels per inch

Both of the 15" screens have Flexview/IPS technology.

#41 Post by **archer6** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:13 pm

dxben wrote:I noticed that the 2007-93U is on sale, the only difference (I think) is the lack of Verizon. But isn't that basically a PCMCIA card anyway that can be added at a later date? Or is that built into the internals of the 2007-94U?

On the ThinkPad the Verizon EVDO is built in with the antenna attached to the right side of the display. Personally I don't like this for several reasons. 1) This is the first generation, in a laptop. 2) Yes, you can accomplish the same thing with a card, thereby saving some money. 3) The antenna protrudes enough that if you have a case that properly sized for a 15" Thinkpad it will be a tight fit. This based on the experience of associates of mine that have the T60P w/EVDO and wish they had not ordered it.

dxben wrote:And just to double check this, the UXGA is the better of the two 15" options?

Both the SXGA+ & UXGA are great displays, it's matter of personal preference, and what you use your computer for. For design, modeling and rendering, Animation,Video, Photoshop, etc. one might prefer the UXGA. However, for all other work, Office, email, web research, etc I prefer the SXGA+. As you know certain web pages have very small fonts, with UXGA it can become nearly impossible to read. And my eyesight is 20/20. Even using Firefox with the ability to change sizes, not all web pages respond to this. And even the ones that do, it's very time consuming to have to continue to adjust text size while browsing.

I ordered my T60 before the T60P's were available, also because I had an immediate need. I purposely chose a model without EVDO and the Fingerprint reader. I have a Fingerprint reader on my T43 and it just does not work for me. But that's just me, as I was recently fingerprinted for a new passport and they had a hard time getting prints. By chosing a model without those two features I saved a lot of money. And just in case you are not aware, if you spend some time negotiating with the Lenovo rep on the phone, they will discount whatever model you choose. I saved more than I would have imagined.

Where did you find it for sale, and what is the price? Perhaps I could assist with that as well.

dxben · #42 Post by **dxben** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:19 pm

Here is the link to the sale price for the 2007-83u.

I got it with an extra 1GB of ram (2GB total) plus the 3 year on site extended plan, for $2749.

you think i could have gotten it for less if i haggled? it was already drastically discounted so i somehow doubt it.

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... er=200783U

#43 Post by **archer6** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:38 pm

dxben wrote:Here is the link to the sale price for the 2007-83u.
I got it with an extra 1GB

Perfect, your price is spot on, % of discount is the same as I negotiated on a T60P that was not on sale. Same as the discount % on my T60.

bart · #44 Post by **bart** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:40 pm

finally got the refund for the 76u I returned, took *almost* 2 weeks!

#45 Post by **archer6** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:45 pm

bart,

T60 2007-68U 14" SXGA+ - exchange
T60 2007-76U 15" SXGA+ Flexview - returned
T2500 1GB 100GB 7200 X1400

What was your exchange / returned / new purchase experience like? What caused this chain of events?

Thanks!

bart · #46 Post by **bart** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:53 pm

Overall i'd say that lenovo is doing a good job trying to keep me happy

The return is hassle free, the only pain is waiting for the refund, does take a while.

Exchange was simple, i just called them and complained there are 2 dead pixels and they are very annoying because they are 1.bright 2.in the center of the screen. The sales rep said if I wanted an exchange, he could send it in 3 weeks(if I sent my TP immediately) and I jumped for it(I believe they do not charge shipping in this case, yet to see if that's true).

The tp reached them on 04/14, and the sales rep updated me that the new TP would ship 28th april. There isn't anything available to track this online though, so guess wud have to take the sales rep's word for it.

bart · #47 Post by **bart** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:59 pm

archer6 wrote: What caused this chain of events?

Reason for returning the 15" is here - http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=22714. Did not ask for a 15" replacement because I like the 14" inch better interms of size, weight and form.

#48 Post by **archer6** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:01 pm

bart wrote:Overall i'd say that lenovo is doing a good job trying to keep me happy

I agree, they are working for you. I have had a similar experience in the past and it certainly contributes to my loyalty to the brand.

Thanks for your timely response!

ibm meister · #49 Post by **ibm meister** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:06 am

I sold my perfectly good T40 in hopes of new Think Pad horizons: Z60 M sent back for networking problems never resolved and it's tubby size.

T60 15"XGA sent back for dark corners on dosplay and overall terrible display quality... also tubby

2623D6U sent back because of choppy dvd playback unresolved now waiting for replacement D6U. In a forum found skipping problem answer if I need it on this one (Why should I have to even have to??)

Not as fast as touted. No Big deal, I am SO SORRY I sold my T40 for a mere $750. It was 2 years old and like new. No problems.

If this next one is bad I may actually go on Tiger Direct and get a refurb T40 and be happy again. Months of aggrivation with Lenovo and it's not over yet.....

lovebeta · #50 Post by **lovebeta** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:38 am

Folks, sadly I am considering to return my T60 due to some reason. I am wondering about the shipping cost though. So who's responsible for the return shipping? Also will Lenovo refund my original shipping charge (which is 20$ btw). Thanks!

pundit · #51 Post by **pundit** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:59 am

lovebeta wrote:Folks, sadly I am considering to return my T60 due to some reason. I am wondering about the shipping cost though. So who's responsible for the return shipping? Also will Lenovo refund my original shipping charge (which is 20$ btw). Thanks!

Mine was paid for both ways. (As in I wasn't charged for shipping in the first place, and was sent shipping labels/boxes to send it back after I called up for the return).

They did ask me if I had gone through tech-support and attempted to resolve my problem first, and the instant I said yes, they were very willing to do all this for free.

NJRonbo · #52 Post by **NJRonbo** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 3:27 pm

Lenovo also just paid for my shipping costs both ways
when it came to returning a bad unit and getting another.

bart · #53 Post by **bart** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:44 pm

I got the replacement 2007-68U today. Came with a pixel-perfect TMD panel, APLS keyboard, Sony battery.

*Was not charged for shipping*

#54 Post by **archer6** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:20 pm

bart wrote:I got the replacement 2007-68U today.

Congratulations!
How long did it take from order to delivery day?
Thanks
Archer

pundit · #55 Post by **pundit** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:23 pm

Has anyone who's returned their machine received their entire refund? If yes, how long did it take in total?

smugiri · #56 Post by **smugiri** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:29 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:*fictional conversation between me and Shimodax*

Me: Hey, the FCU is great, but I seem to still hear some noise
Shimodax: Mmmm? Oh...Those would be the Users at this point
Me: Is there anything I can do?
Shimodax: Why yes there is; come up with your own utility
Me: Ah, I see...I think I have just the right thing in mind
Shimodax: Oh yes?
Me: Indeed....

Presenting the UART, in its most basic form; now available for admins and operators everywhere... http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/A67232.htm

Tired of RMA'ing keyboard peripheral after keyboard peripheral? No need to return units making higher-than-optimal levels of noise; simply dial in the compensation settings and apply the UART (Note: Noise may get worse before getting better...this is usually only temporary. Results may vary) As a bonus, the effects are efficient as they last for quite awhile.

Coming soon to a computer network near you!

This one's quite good Chris: actual one of the best posts I have come across in a while.

#57 Post by **archer6** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:55 pm

pundit wrote:Has anyone who's returned their machine received their entire refund? If yes, how long did it take in total?

Based on your post here, it sounds like you are still waiting for the refund?
The reason I'm monitoring this so closely as I had a very bad experience when returning product for credit (just a year ago). So I don't have a lot of confidence in their process. I finally got my refund, after numerous emails, phone calls, and many wasted hours...6 Months Later! True Story.
How long has it been for you?

#58 Post by **archer6** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:22 pm

Actually, the only reason I order (some times) from IBM/Lenovo is the 30 day return policy. When I purchase from a reseller like Euclid Computers, between the discounted price & no sales tax I end up saving hundreds of dollars. In addition I also save time, since they (usually) have it in stock I get it the next day. Each time I go to the Lenovo site, their is hardly anything in stock. More often than not it's "ships between 3-6 weeks". Want to buy direct? place your order & wait & watch your estimated shipping date move out further each day. The process of buying direct from IBM/Lenovo can be excruciating. I'm not a gambler, but the experience of ordering from Lenovo certainly seems like a crap shoot.
I'm still holding back on ordering the T60P I want because I hate to get caught up in the (waiting/wondering) uncertainty of dealing with Lenovo.

pundit · #59 Post by **pundit** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:13 pm

archer6 wrote:Based on your post here, it sounds like you are still waiting for the refund?
The reason I'm monitoring this so closely as I had a very bad experience when returning product for credit (just a year ago). So I don't have a lot of confidence in their process. I finally got my refund, after numerous emails, phone calls, and many wasted hours...6 Months Later! True Story.
How long has it been for you?

No, I have not.

I was told 6--8, then 5--9, then 8--10 and today 10--12 business days after receipt of the machine on subsequent calls over the past 4 (business) days. You can see the pattern there, I am sure. I have not really wasted any time, as each call has lasted under 1 minute including the 10 second wait period.

Today is the 10th business day of my wait after my return was "deemed received" by their factory. It's the 14th business day after it left my home. According to the dude I spoke to today: "You should definitely see credit within this working week."

And 12 business days after receipt will be Wednesday. We'll see.

The bean counters who were worried that frivolous returns were costing Lenovo (and hence them in turn) ought to also be able to calculate how much Lenovo can make off my few grand on holding it for a few weeks.

This period lets me feel less guilty about my return.

pundit · #60 Post by **pundit** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:23 pm

Plus it gave me the 50 or so hours I needed to finish Metroid Prime 2 with 98% logbook scans and 99% item collection.

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