Thinkpads Forum

Anyone out there return their T60 or T60p?

I'm seriously considering returning mine and would like to hear your experiences.

How long before you recieve your refund?

Anyone return one and order a replacement at the same time? Turnaround time?

Do they apply the "credit" against the new replacement? Or is it a seperate transaction?

Your responses are appreciated.

Thanks, Archer6

I'm about to do the same with mine, primarily for all kinds of little annoyances I am not used to with consumer laptops, which cost about half as much and do not require an IT department to manage.

What's the single biggest reason you would consider returning?

Mine would be driver conflicts and the general lack of knowledge of Lenovo support staff in Atlanta (yes, every once in a while you get a seasoned pro but most of the time it appears to be their first or second day).

Stefan Bruckel wrote:I'm about to do the same with mine, primarily for all kinds of little annoyances I am not used to with consumer laptops, which cost about half as much and do not require an IT department to manage.

What's the single biggest reason you would consider returning?

My display is not very bright, a striking comparison is side by side with my T42 which has been the my best ThinkPad to date. My T60 is not as fast as I expected, even after I added another 1 for a total of 2GB ram.

I'm irritated that Lenovo does not list all avaliable models on their site.

I had no knowledge of the "tabook" which is a pdf document that lists every model and configuration. I found out about the tabook after finding this forum but it was too late as I just recieved my T60.

Had I known earlier (about tabook) I would have ordered a 2007-96U which is a T60P model with a 7200rpm hard drive.

As a very loyal and long time ThinkPad user it's a tough decision. If I return this one, will the next one be better or worse? I have learned a lot on this forum.

Most of the time I have had very good service and fast turnaround times if I needed to send it in. However recently after much time on the phone over a wifi problem with my T43, they asked me to send it in. It came back 3 days later with a new "system board" but that did not fix the problem. It ended up being a driver issue!

Finally, if I was to give up on ThinkPads what would I buy?

I replacement. Having had experiences with Toshiba, Sony, HP, Dell, there is nothing out that that excites me.

What other brands of notebooks do you like, or have experience with?

Thanks, Archer6

macbook pro - runs windows just as well as the thinkpad. overall an excellent computing experience. the userbase is just as excited about mbps as thinkpad owners about their Ts.

ageyfman wrote:macbook pro - runs windows just as well as the thinkpad. overall an excellent computing experience. the userbase is just as excited about mbps as thinkpad owners about their Ts.

I'm running OX 10.4.5 on my Titatium PowerBook G4, so I'm familiar with the interface. I would be very interested in hearing about your experience with the MacBook Pro. I have not seen one, but I'm keen on it now that it runs windows.

Are you running windows on yours? If so, any feedback you have would be appreciated.

Thanks Archer6

In response to Archer6 above, my consumer laptop experiences are similar. The best one I ever had was my first SONY, on Win 98. I had it for 5 years, with no problems, ever. I stuck with SONY for two subsequent purchases, but one died immediately and was returned, and the other developed problems after about a year. No more SONYs for me. One of my kids has an HP, nice, but the hard disk died in the first year... I currently use a Gateway, but it's cheap and plasticy, and the keyboard fell apart after just a month. I bought all Dells for the office computers and the Server, and I thought of a Dell laptop, but I could not find a configuration I liked (I like the 2 7K 100 Gig drives I have in my T60p... now if I could only get it to work reliably)... The screen is not as sexy as in the consumer laptops, but I don't care for wide screen, and I like 1200 x 1600.

Where do I find this TAB book you write about? Would have been nice to have, I agree. I probably bought more than I need... I have no need for the 9 cell battery, security chip, fingerprint reader etc. I just want a sturdy reliable laptop that I can have for 5 years without it breaking down, since it's such a hassle to replace computers these days.

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitute/psref/

All the references to tabook are in the Forum FAQs

Sounds like you did indeed buy alot more than you need; what other Thinkpads did you conisder before going for a T60?

You could probably get by with a T4X Series or another similar Thinkpad instead of forking out that much for a new T60p.

archer6 wrote:How long before you recieve your refund?

The process is seamless, and I had my return shipping and such paid for as well. The wait time on the refund is 8--10 business days.

I second pundit. return is totally hassle free, i've shipped back 2 systems, yet to get the money credited back though. guess takes about a week or so after they receive the system

archer6 wrote:
Finally, if I was to give up on ThinkPads what would I buy?

I replacement. Having had experiences with Toshiba, Sony, HP, Dell, there is nothing out that that excites me.

What other brands of notebooks do you like, or have experience with?

I have the same problem as well. My T60 is less than ideal - 2 things
really bother me - the rough edges around the palm rest and an
intermittent high pitched whine/whistle. But I feel I'm overly critical
with the Thinkpad because it's supposed to be my dream machine.
It is very stable, runs cool and is plenty fast for me (with only 1GB).

However, if I were to return it, I can't think of what else I would
want to get. I've owned HPs and Dells through work before and
even without being as critical of them, I know I didn't like them as
much as I do the T60. So I've decided to live with the T60 and its
little foibles. I will send it back for service if the problem with the
whine gets worse.

Anoop

I think there are only two choices, Thinkpads and MacBooks. Now that MBP's will run Windows, I'm almost tempted to cancel my 2007-76U. However, due to my situation, it would cost me an extra $1,000 to get a MBP that equals the 76U.

The big advantage of Thinkpads is that you can actually try them out and return them if you are unhappy. Apple only gives you 14 days to return something and they aren't nearly as flexible as Lenovo. Besides that, if you've opened the box you pay a 10% restocking fee.

I ordered my 76U on the 4th of this month and each day the ship date moves out one more day. I'll send the salesman an email next week to see where I am in the queue.

pundit wrote:
The process is seamless, and I had my return shipping and such paid for as well. The wait time on the refund is 8--10 business days.

pundit-

What are you purchasing to replace the T60p you returned?

My expectations are (admittedly) quite high, as the previous ThinkPad's I have owned have all been excellent.

However last month I ordered two new ThinkPads, the T60 for me, and a Z60m for my Son. Interestingly, both these have the LG display and Chicony keyboards. Side by side the display on the Z60m is so much brighter & clearer than my T60, it makes the T60 look dim and dull.

Very discouraging. I feel like it's a crap shoot to order again, waiting for the delivery and all the while wondering if I will get a "good one". Then after a lengthy wait... taking delivery only to find a poor keyboard or some other problem(s) like the many different issues I have read about on this forum.

I have not returned my T60 yet, or ordered the T60p that (on paper) meets my needs exactly, the 2007-96U. I find myself struggling over this decision.

Any Thoughts? Anyone else care to comment?

Thanks, Archer6

archer6 wrote: My expectations are (admittedly) quite high, as the previous ThinkPad's I have owned have all been excellent.
...

Any Thoughts? Anyone else care to comment?

hmm...I think there's too many of us that have been thrilled
with our past machines and the present ones don't seem to live
up to that build quality. Unfortunately, with the cut throat
competition and cost cutting all around, I doubt we will
ever get machines that measure up to that build quality.
It might help to be a little less passionate about these
machines.

This forum is great. I'm glad it exists. Without it, I would
have thought I was losing it. Now at least I know others
are seeing similar problems and going through similar
pain.

Anoop

archer6 wrote:pundit-

What are you purchasing to replace the T60p you returned?

I don't really know. It's a toss-up between:
a. A 14" T60 variant of the machine I had (specs below)
b. An X60 series machine with a docking station and screen (oh, if they ONLY had more than 1024x768 screens on the cute little things)
c. A comparable MacBook Pro (identical to specs below)
d. Some not-evil company's laptop[1]
e. Screw it all together and grin and bear it until Merom+fancy new OSs (Leopard, Vista, Shiny new distribution with XGL) is out.

[1] Not being the most pragmatic person, my thoughts on these matters don't really revolve around technical issues. For instance, (I feel) Apple is evil because of the way they use Free software and don't reciprocate. Also, companies that use ATI cards are evil because ATI is evil. Sony is evil because of the whole DRM fiasco. Lenovo is not all that not-evil because of my recent incidents with them. I can go on, but see the pattern?

At the end of the day, some company like Dell will end up least evil (Dell's Linux driver support, at least on very-high-end workstations is nothing short of stellar). But then I'll say Dell just isn't "cool enough" and owning one wouldn't make my insides feel all warm and fuzzy. And hence Dell isn't really under consideration either. My point being, whatever the line of thought, I'm in danger of painting myself into a very uncomfortable corner.

*fictional conversation between me and Shimodax*

Me: Hey, the FCU is great, but I seem to still hear some noise
Shimodax: Mmmm? Oh...Those would be the Users at this point
Me: Is there anything I can do?
Shimodax: Why yes there is; come up with your own utility
Me: Ah, I see...I think I have just the right thing in mind
Shimodax: Oh yes?
Me: Indeed....

Presenting the UART, in its most basic form; now available for admins and operators everywhere... http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/A67232.htm

Tired of RMA'ing keyboard peripheral after keyboard peripheral? No need to return units making higher-than-optimal levels of noise; simply dial in the compensation settings and apply the UART (Note: Noise may get worse before getting better...this is usually only temporary. Results may vary) As a bonus, the effects are efficient as they last for quite awhile.

Coming soon to a computer network near you!

Pundit & Anoop...

I share your feelings and agree with both of you.

Thanks for reminding me that I'm in good company! I too, appreciate this forum.

I try not to obsess or overreact to what some people might view as minor issues, and I'm failing miserably. Time for me to find the humor in all this.

Thanks Guys!

Archer6

After less than a week of owning my first Thinkpad, I'm
in the process of returning my T60 for an exchange.

You know, I expected so much from Lenovo and in the
end, I was sorely disappointed.

For the amount of money they charge, I would think that
I would have gotten a system that was problematic free.
In my case, the wireless network card was throwing all my
other computers off the network and couldn't hold a connection.
Tech support feels that I may have an electrical shortage inside.

Then there's the speed. This thing has a T2500 dual-core
processor, 7200 hard drive and 2 gigs ram. I don't find it
particularly fast. My desktop has the same specs and it's
far slower than that.

The only reason I even considered going with a replacement
was that I was so very much impressed with the keyboard and
build quality on this unit.

As far as the return...

So that I would not have to be without a laptop, I just ordered
a new T60. When it arrives, I send back the defective unit and
get a refund.

At that point I have another 30 days to decide if I want to stay
with Lenovo or not.

In this and other threads I had indicated I was ready to return my T60 based on all the problems I had with it... all those problems culminated in me having to reinstall the system from scratch, as I got caught in a loop where the security chip made the system unbootable. Extremely annoying and the worst "get to know your new laptop" experience I have ever had (never mind the $$$ it will cost me in hours trouble shooting with my IT consultant).

Much to my delight, following the reinstall, the system is working flawlessly. Everythig works, systme is lightning fast, hibernates properly, has the best and most reliable wireless network connections I have ever experienced, etc.

I am conclusing that I had a corrupt install shipped to me from Lenovo. It wasn't obvious at first, which is why I spent a week thinking these were all "normal Lenovo features"... given this is my first Lenovo experience.

In any case, all issues have resolved with the system reinstall... and I am now completely satisfied with the T60 and it does meet all expectations I had, which were high indeed....

Perhaps some of the others with new T60 machines with multiple problems would also benefit from a complete system reinstall... maybe they are having some problems shipping properly configured software on some machines. Mine is a 2623 DDU with 2 gig memory. Good luck!

Stefan,

How did you go about that system install?

Did you make a Recovery CD set when you
received the laptop?

I actually did a system recovery when I upgraded
from a 5400 to 7200 hard drive. Despite the reinstall,
I'm still having the same problems with the system
dumping memory the second I attempt to use an
external notebook webcam.

NJRonbo wrote:
I actually did a system recovery when I upgraded
from a 5400 to 7200 hard drive.

NJRonbo-

I have been considering the same thing you did (upgrade from 5400-7200 hard drive)

My question is how much speed difference did the 7200 provide? Was it worth it? I'm torn between doing that or returning my T60 for a T60P that already has the 7200 plus upgraded graphics etc.

Please Advise,
Thanks, Archer6

archer6 wrote:My question is how much speed difference did the 7200 provide? Was it worth it? I'm torn between doing that or returning my T60 for a T60P that already has the 7200 plus upgraded graphics etc.

You may already know this, but you don't need to get a T60p to get the 7200rpm drive. See my T60's specs in sig.

archer,

I have had 2 laptops prior to the Lenovo with
a 5200 rpm drive.

Where I *really* see the lag is with software installation.
The amount of time it takes software to install on a 5400
hard drive is noticeably slower than a 7200.

Other than that, is there a HUGE difference? Perhaps
slightly in the system bootup and loading of programs
during startup.

It's an expensive upgrade option, but in the end, I
wanted a cutting-edge system that had the best of
everything.

NJRonbo wrote:archer,

It's an expensive upgrade option, but in the end, I
wanted a cutting-edge system that had the best of
everything.

NJRonbo-

When I calculate the cost in parts (my labor) taking into consideration the time as well, if leaves me wondering if I might not be better off with the T60P. For the cost difference between the two.

With the T60P I would be getting not only the 7200 drive, but also 256 video memory with advanced graphics, a higher resolution display and hopefully an Alps or NMB keyboard. Also I notice in the tabook that the 2007-96U only comes with a Hydis display which is certain to be much brighter than the display on my T60 which is dimmer when placed side by side with my other ThinkPads.

The hold up for me is making the decision; do I want to wait for an undetermined amount of time after ordering it? All the while wondering what I will get in terms of components and functionality?

I wanted to start out the new year with a new ThinkPad as I ususally do. However this time my experience has been very time consuming and frustrating. If I have to wait another 3-5 weeks to start over again and then receive a machine that has other problems as many people are experiencing here on this board, I would be very disappointed.

I do graphic & industrial design and use software that requires a lot of resources, and at the time of my original order I did not know that the T60P series was available.

I just want a solid ThinkPad that functions correctly so I can get on with things.

thanks for your feedback.

Archer6

In the spirit of the OP's question, one tiny snag in the process is the duration for receiving your refund. When they say a "certain number (6 -- 8) of business days after the return", they mean "... business days after the return was entered into their system."

Since there is an arbitrary delay between when the actual return took place (the package was signed for as received in their end) and when the return "enters their system," you need to be ready to wait for just a bit longer than you might have calculated initially.

I have legitimate uses for this delay, like proving my student status to Apple; you might be the tiniest bit annoyed.

Archer,

My biggest mistake was not going for the T60P
to begin with, though I really didn't need the 256
video memory.

I simply thought the T60 was the top of the line.

pundit wrote:I have legitimate uses for this delay, like proving my student status to Apple; you might be the tiniest bit annoyed.

I have returned product to Lenovo in the past and the wait was horrendous, this is why I asked you ealier about your wait.
What hoops must one jump through to qualify for the Apple Education Discount? I am a bit behind the curve on that one.

Archer

NJRonbo wrote:Archer,
My biggest mistake was not going for the T60P
to begin with.

NJRonbo,
I did the exact same thing. Only I knew of the T60P series, however it did not appear on the Lenovo Web Site. When I called and asked the sales rep he was uninformed and said that the P models would not be released until Sep/Oct. Shortly after placing my T60 order and receiving the computer, I came across this forum. I learned then about the tabook which lists all models for sale. It's there that I identified the 2007-96U T60P which is EXACTLY the computer I need and want.
At this point, I just do not know about starting all over and having to go through the hassle of returning the T60, waiting for the refund and then starting all over ordering the T60P. The last time (and only time) I returned a product to them the wait for the refund was 7 weeks!
In my opinion ThinkPads are the best, but at the moment this waiting and wondering is a pain.

What's that latest with you decision wise?
Thanks,
Archer

Archer,

UPS is due to pick up my Lenovo today.

Keeping the replacement.

I had no idea it took 7 weeks for a refund. Holy Cow!

What am I to do otherwise?

NJRonbo wrote:Archer,

UPS is due to pick up my Lenovo today.

Keeping the replacement

You may get lucky and be refunded sooner, a friend of mine who is currently waiting and it's been 8 weeks, still no refund. When he calls it's in "processing".

What replacement are you keeping?

Thanks,
Archer

What is the deal with this "chicony" keyboard? What is that? Are there different keyboards shipping on the same unit?

What are alll these problems? I have a T41p from IBM and is everyone saying that Thinkpads have gone downhill since the Lenevo takeover?