T60 as Gaming Computer

[archer6]

I have not tried any games yet, as I'm guilty of "work.work.work".

Now that I have this new T60 I would like to hear from those of you with gaming experience. What kinds (titles) of games run well with the machine I have, etc. Strategy Games, Adventure Games, Single Player etc.

In browsing around gamespot.com I found "Civilization IV" which is interesting, I'm just not sure if it will run with my graphics card.

Here are the specs of my T60:

2007-73U Core Duo
T2500 2.00 GHz - 2GB ram - 15.0" SXGA+ 1400x1050
100G @5400 rpm - DVD-ROM/CD-RW / 24X/24X/24X/8X21 speed
ATI MOBILITY RADEON X1400 M54 / PCI Express x16 / 128MB GDDR1

Your feedback is appreciated
archer

MOD EDIT: No double posting archer

[pundit]

[snip]

What kinds (titles) of games run well with the machine I have, etc. Strategy Games, Adventure Games, Single Player etc.

[snip]

2007-73U Core Duo
T2500 2.00 GHz - 2GB ram - 15.0" SXGA+ 1400x1050
100G @5400 rpm - DVD-ROM/CD-RW / 24X/24X/24X/8X21 speed
ATI MOBILITY RADEON X1400 M54 / PCI Express x16 / 128MB GDDR1

Your feedback is appreciated
archer

I am certain that all the genres you mention will run perfectly fine with the specs you mention---especially Civ IV, as it is not (relatively) a very system resource intensive game at all.

[archer6]

pundit-

thanks for the fast response and the info, as I'm ready to try this now.

Cheers!
archer

[pundit]

On a related note: I've not gamed on the PC in a couple of years (But do check out the occasional game demo, usually to be blown away yet disappointed at the same time. Weird, I know.)

The only thing that I've found remotely exciting (and will potentially warrant a windows partition for a few weeks), is Spore. I would be lying if I said I weren't excited.

[southy]

Wow! That concept of Spore looks SOOOO cool! So many great ideas! Wow. I really want to try this.

[kwramm]

civ 4 should run easily. it even runs on my old fujitsu notebook with only 32 mb vram. just get the latest civ patches and all will work well

[Hamid]

For startegy games, you can play ALL available games with a relatively high detail settings on a T60 with ATi X1400. The most resource consuming strategy game I have seen to far is EA's Generals series. The code is very bad. I mean very very bad. It consumes a lot of system resources for nothing. The code seems to be optimized for consuming maximim resources !!!!!

RPG games, one of the best (if not the best) available graphic engine is in World Of Warcraft (WoW)from Blizzard. Generally Blizzard games have a very good quality in terms of software and WoW follows the same rule. Very good environment and you can set your detail level to very high detail. The rest of RPG games should run without any problems.

Note: WoW is addictive !!!!

Adventure games should run fairly good since they require low FPS (Frames Per Second), so they won't push the GC so hard.

And finnaly, First Person Shooter Action games. They DO require high FPS from the GC in order to be well played. Another major concern in these games are LCD latency which will affect your shooting accuracy directly. I was wondering how much the LCD latency is T60 notebooks?

For the Action games, you can play even latest modern games without any problems,but not with High details. Depending the game you may need to lower the resolution and/or detail level. Recentl action games, like Half-life 2, will put a lot (and I mean a alot !!!) of load on the processor. For professional gaming, the ideal FPS is 100. If you want to enjoy the game in Single player, you may increase the detail level to enjoy the game more (by loosing some FPS), but since it is single player, it makes sence.


Driving games, should be fine with relatively high detail (Not highest settings for all games).

HTH,
Hamid
(Former Pro Gamer, still play Warcraft III and WoW!)

PS: The above assumes that yiou don't have any driver issues with the game. High end gaming GCs get driver updates frequently to solve issues related with some games.

[bonehead]

if your looking for instant fun try first person shooters. (Quake X, CS Source)

personally, if im not playing with/against other players, i dont feel like i am gaming.

[kd78]

I found that the original Battlefield 1942 by EA runs really well on the t60 with x1400. I have it playing at highest resolution and highest settings and it isn't bad. I am going to try out battlefield 2 as soon as I can go out and purchase it. I hope it works just as well.

[astro]

personally, if im not playing with/against other players, i dont feel like i am gaming.

Agreed. Counter-Strike:Source has been my addiction for over 18 mths now.

However, for a single player game, I am struggling to find anything more intense than Call of Duty 2 -- which happens to run very well on my desktop Radeon 9600XT.

[archer6]

if your looking for instant fun try first person shooters. (Quake X, CS Source)

personally, if im not playing with/against other players, i dont feel like i am gaming.

I plan on doing both online and offline gaming as I spend some time in airplanes without connectivity.

Keep sending in the suggestions, I appreciate your feedback.

archer

[Teerex]

How about the screen latency as someone else asked about? does the screen make the 'reaction' slow in CS:S?


Thanks

Rex

[ehsu]

Just a side note:

My T42 9600 64MB crapped out on me when I was playing Act of War. The CPU/GPU/RAM were too hot to cause the fan (which was just being replaced in Janurary) died. This is the second time my fan has died. T42 doesn't have an efficient cooling system.

At least T60 has improved a lot in cooling the CPU/GPU than T4x. Hopefully it won't crap out like mine when you create many units.

[Teerex]

... noone?

How about the screen latency as someone else asked about? does the screen make the 'reaction' slow in CS:S?


Thanks

Rex

[pundit]

... noone?

How about the screen latency as someone else asked about? does the screen make the 'reaction' slow in CS:S?


Thanks

Rex

Does "No" help? I don't know what they're talking about. Unless it's an artifact of a particular kind of screen which I haven't had the chance to use.

[Kamika007z]

There shouldn't be any latency on a notebook LCD becuase it is "theoritically" connected to the main board via a flex-cable.

I want to be able to run CS:S on my T60 as I have been a gamer of CS since 1999 (maybe even before that), so I'm hoping the T60p I just purchased will run it well enough!

I have a Dell Inspiron 8200, maxed out with modified hardware and I could get a good 40-50fps using my Quadro4 700 GoGL 64MB card.

...I just wish these systems had an option of having nVidia's as available GPUs to purchase as an alternative.

If curious, here's my Inspiron 8200's configuration :

Dell Inspiron 8200/Precision M50 Workstation:
2.40Ghz Pentium 4-M | 1.5GB DDR PC2100 RAM | 15.1" UltraSharp SHARP LCD | NVIDIA Quadro4 700 GoGL 64MB (BIOS Hacked to 210/480) | Intel PRO/Wirelss 2915ABG Network Connection | Hitachi Travelstar 60GB 7200rpm | Toshiba SD-R6112 [DVD-R/W] | Synaptics Touchpad/Trackstick Support | Latitude C/Dock II Docking Station

To Do/Upgrade Checklist:
*Upgrade P4-M to 2.6Ghz (max it out)
*Upgrade 1.5GB DDR RAM to 2GB
*Install another antennae into system for improved wireless range *COMPLETED*
*Integrate Synaptics Touchpad/Trackpoint instead of Alps Touchpad/Trackpoint *COMPLETED*

[Teerex]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm curious to hear how CS:S runs on your t60p.


Rex

[Kamika007z]

I'll let you all know once I get it in. Right now, I'm looking at a 1 month from now ship date

I hope my machine doesn't have any quirks!

[kd78]

I tried out the single player demo of battlefield 2 and it runs OK.

Unlike the original battlefield, I can't run it in highest resolution. I have the x1400 so maybe someone with the firegl can comment on how battlefield2 runs? I would like to know to see if it is worth the upgrade (i am within my 30 days)

[archer6]

I tried out the single player demo of battlefield 2 and I can't run it in highest resolution. I have the x1400 so maybe someone with the firegl can comment on how battlefield2 runs? I would like to know to see if it is worth the upgrade (i am within my 30 days)

Precisely - I am in the same quandry. I want the better graphics for work and games. However my hesitancy is concern over what I would received in the T60P, in terms of quality, dead pixels, fan issues, etc. It seems that quality control is an issue these days.

If I could be confident that I would get a good machine I would go for it in a nanosecond. The thought of starting over and placing an order with an unknown availability and delivery time is not attractive. Then having the feeling like I'm rolling the dice, is rather unpleasant.

I'm open for thoughts, opinions & comments....

[kwramm]

just wondering, are there authorized IBM/Lenovo dealers in the US or is it mail order only?
I told my the dealer I'm going to order from to give the notebook a system check and a dead pixel check and only then I will take it. They're charging a small service fee (about $30) for this, but basically this was okay with the dealer, so I feel pretty confident the machine I will get will work as promised.

[archer6]

just wondering, are there authorized IBM/Lenovo dealers in the US or is it mail order only?
I told my the dealer I'm going to order from to give the notebook a system check and a dead pixel check and only then I will take it. They're charging a small service fee (about $30) for this, but basically this was okay with the dealer, so I feel pretty confident the machine I will get will work as promised.

I'm not aware of any dealers in the US other than resellers that will not open the box and inspect the computer for any defects. Most have very strict return policies with not much consideration for the customer. They sell the computer to you, and if there is a problem, one must deal directly with Lenovo.

[kwramm]

guess I'm lucky. but then again the t60p is more expensive in europe anyway

[Army Chief]

Not to be a killjoy, but I'm still trying to figure out when people began thinking of ThinkPads as gaming machines. In the dozen or so years that I've owned and used them, IBM/Lenovo has never designed a notebook with gaming in mind -- to be honest, they've only recently taken an interest in the general consumer market.

ThinkPads have historically been business-first machines, and I don't see a reversal of the trend in the T6X series. So, while I can readily appreciate that high quality and top-tier component specifications make many ThinkPads suitable for some forms of gaming, I still don't understand why someone would buy one of these machines for this when there are a host of dedicated alternatives on the market.

Don't get me wrong: I think we've all played something or other on a ThinkPad before, but I'm just surprised by all of the game-related discussion that I see on this board nowadays. It's almost as if we have an entire sub-set here who owns a ThinkPad primarily for running resource-intensive gaming apps. If so, I think these guys might have purchased the wrong computer.

When you invest in an unapologetically business-oriented machine, things like non-optimal screen configurations, limited video memory options, multi-input-challenged keyboards and such shouldn't come as much of a surprise, no? Again, my purpose here isn't to rile feathers at all, but I guess I just don't "get it." Why are so many new ThinkPad users seemingly so preoccupied with the machine's gaming performance? Is this just a case of fast processors and good performance making them suitable for non-traditional/business uses?

Chief

[kwramm]

I think getting a $ 3000 machine just for gaming is a bit extreme, but at least in the case of the t60p, which is a pretty powerful machine, it's quite interesting to discuss what it is capable of when not using it for its primary purpose (i.e. work).

If it were not for the price, the t60p would be a nice gaming notebook. The emphasis is on notebook since I don't regard those dual sli / raid sata "notebooks" as notebooks anymore. They're getting too hot, they're too heavy and too big. They fall more in the line of portable computer, whereas machines like the thinkpads are really much more mobile.

There's also multimedia notebooks, but those seem to be more geared towards DVD and TV watching with their widescreens and remotes and consumer-imaging needs with their card slots and what not. Most of them don't make great gaming notebooks either.

I think proper *mobile* gaming notebooks (around 6/7 lbs) do not even exist. When you want something like that you just have to take a pick from the most powerful mulitmedia or business range a vendor offers and find out if it runs games or not.

Despite the price I think that at least the t60p line offers a whole lot for someone who doesn't use the notebook just for work (as in my case). I work as 3D artist at a quite well known game company here, so I'm happy the t60p have fire gl cards in them, which is great for work, but I'm also curious how it plays games. But I think it will do well for most genres - maybe not FPS though.

[Army Chief]

A terrific -- and most enlightening -- reply, kwramm. Many thanks!

Chief

[archer6]

Not to be a killjoy, but I'm still trying to figure out when people began thinking of ThinkPads as gaming machines. In the dozen or so years that I've owned and used them, IBM/Lenovo has never designed a notebook with gaming in mind --
Chief

In the dozen or so years that I've owned ThinkPads it has been 100% business. I have never (until the T60) even considered gaming. The partial list in my signature below represents many ThinkPads that have never, ever seen a game. I dont' even own a desktop for games. I have always used ThinkPads because it' my main computer for work and it's mission critical that I have a machine that I can count on. Especially since I am constantly on the road. Each and every ThinkPad I have purchased (including the T60) has been for business purposes with no thoughts of gaming whatsoever.

That said, now that the ThinkPad T60 series comes with lots of resources I thought perhaps it might be fun to try some games. I purposely started this thread entitled "T60 as Gaming Computer" to grab the attention of those who do have gaming experience and would like to share experience thoughts etc. Especially since I have never played a game and would like to try one that runs suitably on my T60.

To all of you who have answered my request for game suggestions, information, experiences, Thank You!

[Hamid]

There shouldn't be any latency on a notebook LCD becuase it is "theoritically" connected to the main board via a flex-cable.

No offense, but what exactly are you taking about?!?!?!?!?!?!??! LCDs do have latency, The basic LCDs come with 25ms latency. Best LCDs I have seen have a 2ms latency.

I have unable to find the Part number mentioned on IBM/Lenovo's website for 15" SXGA screens on the LG-Phillips website. But what I have seen on their website all their15" SXGA Notebook LCDs had a 25ms latency.

HTH,
Hamid

[a31pguy]

Been gaming on my a31p and z60m for some time now. I have a dedicated overclocked desktop with a ATi x850 PE which is water cooled.

The problem with laptops are that the hard drives are quite a bit slower than their desktop companions. Further the GPUs on laptops are limited as to the number of pipelines in comparison to their desktop versions. While my ATi x850 with 256 mb of DDR3 VRAM has 16 pipelines and can overclock - my x600 with 128 mb of DDR3 VRAm only has four. In terms of real world metrics, my SATA drives on my desktop can push upwards of 100 mb per second while the SATA drives on my laptop push about 50 mb per second. My ATA-6 drives on my a31p only push about 25-31 mb per second.

The CPU has never been an issue - except when it comes to heat - the laptops try to strike a balance between speed, heat, and battery life. While my desktop run at full power and never has any heat issues.

That said - my z60m with a 2mb cache on a pentium M approaches my desktop in terms on playabibility but never matches it. The Pentium 4M suffered the same heat related issues as the Pentium 4A. I think the Core Duo will also suffer the power and heat issues as the Pentium 4-M and Pentium 4D. However, it remains to be seen. Which is why I'm waiting to see the results on heat related failures before I jump to Core Duo.

My a31p - being older technology, can only play CSS in DX7 mode with frame rates of 50-77 fps. My z60m can play CSS with DX9 mode and full shaders at about 100+ fps in 1024x768 with the GPU getting quite hot and the fan at full blast. My desktop in comparison can push some obscene frame rates.

I think the better way for a mobile user to get the gaming power they need would be for a gaming docking station to integrate either a high rpm, large diameter fan that injects the cool air directly through the case or for some hybride liquid/air cooling to be attached directly from the dock to the thinkpad while docked. The bios would see the dock and unlock the frequencies of the GPU to be at a higher level and the power management features would be set to high performance.

The other problem is that the mobile GPUs are sometimes underclocked/limted to extend battery life - as in the Apple MBP. But this is the design of a business machine - when the battery life and CAD driver peformance are more important than throughput and GPU DirectX performance.

[archer6]

Been gaming on my a31p and z60m for some time now.

a31pguy-

Brilliant!

Kudos for your exemplary post. I learned a lot from you today, this is exactly the information I was looking for.
I now have many things to think about, as the info you provided was very interesting, comprehensive & stimulating. I am now viewing this from a different vantage point.
In the meantime my PSP is looking better & better....

Thanks,
Archer