T60 vs Macbook

[christopher_wolf]

Well it seems these things CAN happen with a MB or MBPro. My MBPro CPU Core temp reached up to 80 degrees while under full load. Its not bad at all. The outside casing is very warm but not what I'd call hot. The heat issues also seem to be resolved in the newer models. Some people report temperatures similar to T60.
However they are really really freaking quiet compared to any other Laptop. Why oh why can't I have a T60 with the noise of a MBPro? Anyone know at what intervals the Fan of the T60 would kick in if I'd keep it about 70 degrees idle (at GPU)?
Maybe I'll just go for a Sony...

Because most people want laptops that run cooler than 80 degrees most of the time on their laps. I would rather have a fan that runs a bit, ideally the ability to control the fan in exchange for lower CPU and system temperatures; after awhile, the temps will reduce the MTBF of the overall system. This is the same thing that people complained about in what they thought they saw in the T43; "Heat! Fan! WAH!"

Further, since it uses the same Intel chipset that other laptops have used without such heat issues (the T60 being one of them), one should expect similar behavior out of it and not large fluctuations.

Also, my friend appears to have found a little bug with the MacBook Pro. If you take the battery out and power it only with AC mains, both cores peg to 1GHz and don't budge. On either Battery+AC or AC alone, the scaling works just fine. It seems to be related to the SMC.

See; http://www.increw.com/the_news/latest_n ... tery..html

[astro]

There are some things to love about Apple design, though:
http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/index.b ... id=1483267

It's great that it is so thin, yet they still find space to do stuff like this. Shame about the heating issues.

[archer6]

There are some things to love about Apple design, though:
http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/index.b ... id=1483267

It's great that it is so thin, yet they still find space to do stuff like this. Shame about the heating issues.

I really do agree here.

After all, I started with a Mac, have continued to use their laptops (personal use) over the years and currently have a very nice Titanium PowerBook G4.

Admittedly as a tech guy, a CEO & businessman, I tend to be very passionate about product design, engineering, sales and marketing. Part of what fuels my frustration with Apple is all the opportunities they have squandered, their pompous attitude, and repeated reluctance to take responsibility for issues (such as the current heating problem) and provide a resolution that makes the customer feel as though they matter.

A perfect example of this (if you research powerbook history) is in 1992 just the 2nd year for the PowerBook brand they already captured 34% of the market segment. Apple not only created the PowerBook, but the "notebook" size and form factor as well! First there were the portable computers (nicknamed luggables) then the laptop, then the notebook computer as created by Apple.

So, just exactly what did they do to grow beyond 34% market share.....nothing. Why? Because they where having overheating problems with the PowerBooks! True! Isn't that amazing that then and now they continue to release products that are not ready for market. Thereby allowing Toshiba, Compaq, and others to immediately step in and grab a big slice of the pie.

History repeats itself, MacBook Pro introduced - heating problems. Then MacBook introduced, even more severe heating problems!

Additionally as an early adopter, I like to have the latest model and because of way they handle product launches (lack of inventory, significant problems with early models, etc) I end up having to sit back and wait until they finally get it sorted out. Presently I would really like to have a MacBook Pro, as I avoided the Aluminum G4 PowerBooks because of their problems. So I'm still waiting, and waiting...

[christopher_wolf]

There are some things to love about Apple design, though:
http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/index.b ... id=1483267

It's great that it is so thin, yet they still find space to do stuff like this. Shame about the heating issues.

I really do agree here.

After all, I started with a Mac, have continued to use their laptops (personal use) over the years and currently have a very nice Titanium PowerBook G4.

Admittedly as a tech guy, a CEO & businessman, I tend to be very passionate about product design, engineering, sales and marketing. Part of what fuels my frustration with Apple is all the opportunities they have squandered, their pompous attitude, and repeated reluctance to take responsibility for issues (such as the current heating problem) and provide a resolution that makes the customer feel as though they matter.

A perfect example of this (if you research powerbook history) is in 1992 just the 2nd year for the PowerBook brand they already captured 34% of the market segment. Apple not only created the PowerBook, but the "notebook" size and form factor as well! First there were the portable computers (nicknamed luggables) then the laptop, then the notebook computer as created by Apple.

So, just exactly what did they do to grow beyond 34% market share.....nothing. Why? Because they where having overheating problems with the PowerBooks! True! Isn't that amazing that then and now they continue to release products that are not ready for market. Thereby allowing Toshiba, Compaq, and others to immediately step in and grab a big slice of the pie.

History repeats itself, MacBook Pro introduced - heating problems. Then MacBook introduced, even more severe heating problems!

Additionally as an early adopter, I like to have the latest model and because of way they handle product launches (lack of inventory, significant problems with early models, etc) I end up having to sit back and wait until they finally get it sorted out. Presently I would really like to have a MacBook Pro, as I avoided the Aluminum G4 PowerBooks because of their problems. So I'm still waiting, and waiting...

True, although keep in mind that Apple has gone through many changes since that time. I still remember my old Titanium Powerbook, then I took a look at the first gen Powerbooks that Apple brought out after that and they run significantly hotter for no reason that I could discern; I decided to wait awhile before looking at them again and, for the most part, all the problems seem to have been corrected and futher refined.

The only thing that I could complain about is that they are no where near the flexibility of IBM/Lenovo when purchasing their systems; also, compared to the older Powerbooks, they have taken away alot of things that proved *very* useful to people working in the field, engineering, labs, and so on. After that, the design, on the outside at least, seemed to become simpler and "not as complex" to appeal to even more people. Functionality has either been not moved upwards in priority as a goal or other things have come up to its level for the designers of the newer Apples.

[foodle]

Finally had time to go into the local Apple store to check out the new MacBooks. The floor models seemed slightly warm to the touch, but nothing outrageous. My main interest was in the keyboard. IMHO, the keyboard was ok, but definitely not as good as a Thinkpad's (even the Chicony ). The key travel/stroke of the MacBook keys seemed really shallow. I can't find the exact spec online, but it didn't seem anywhere near the Thinkpad 2.5mm stroke. I still have to think about it, but that may be a deal breaker for me.

Magnetic latch was pretty slick. Strong enough to feel secure. Not so strong that it was hard to open.

Another thing that gives me pause is the lack of a built-in expansion card slot (PCMCIA or ExpressCard). Mainly I'd want to use this for an EVDO/EDGE card, which I'm firmly convinced will someday save my bacon on the road. Another point in favor of Thinkpads, since they not only have the EVDO card built-in, but have a PCMCIA slot.

The black MacBook holds a strange attraction for me, extra $150 be [censored]. Maybe I'm just so used to Thinkpads, that I expect/demand all laptops look matte black.

[archer6]

Finally had time to go into the local Apple store to check out the new MacBooks. The floor models seemed slightly warm to the touch, but nothing outrageous.

I went to the Apple store today, with of 3 of my colleagues, all of whom purchased black MacBooks on the day they were introduced. 2 out of the three have the heat & paint flaking problem. 1 is very severe regarding the paint flaking, the other one is just barely beginning to display the problem. The one without any finish problems runs very warm but not "hot" as the other 2 do. So these 2 were brought in.

While waiting at the genius bar we overheard a conversation that suggested Apple "serviced the MacBook floor models" before putting them on display for the consumers to try out.

The wait was very lengthy as there were many more MacBook owners with their computers waiting to consult with a genius. Based on a number of owners "comparing notes" while waiting, we heard that it's happening predominately to the computers that are being used to do heavy video editing, computational work beyond just email and web surfing, therefore these are the ones that are heating up more than when just idling & affecting the paint finish. The owners of white MacBooks had no perceptible problems with the finish. Their only issue was heat and in just one case it was severe enough to cause the computer to crash repeatedly.

So the general consensus amongst the approx 14 owners waiting there, is that it's safe to buy one if it's only going to be used for basic tasks. When pressed for more specifics at the "genius bar", the staff avoided a direct answer to questions posed about heat, finish blistering and flaking off.

Once it was our "turn" to be waited on, the genius asked some questions and took the 2 machines into the back. We waited and waited, then finally he appeared with 2 new MacBooks in sealed boxes and proceeded to walk briskly up to the sales counter. After conversing privately with a person at the register, he called us up to the counter and they returned/exhanged them for the new units.

We were so elated that once the paperwork was done, we left quickly to avoid any questions from the observers that were still still there waiting for their turn at the genius bar.

[zixy_tris]

Hi,

I just went today to compusa and saw apple Macbook. It was freakin hot on the bottom. I guess its better to not to have Macbook then Kids.

[RonS]

Anyone who would sit there and let themselves be burned sterile probably shouldn't be reproducing anyway.

[foodle]

Visited the Apple store again (I think it's an addiction) and the keyboard is growing on me. Key travel is shorter than the Thinkpad keyboards, but I find that this increases my typing speed, despite feeling weird. I might just have to get a black one so that I stop wasting so much time thinking about the purchase . However, I doubt it'll be my daily workhorse as it's lacking a few key features that my Thinkpads have (e.g. Verizon EVDO).

Also here are a couple of Macbook vs Thinkpad comparisons:
http://pjlinux.blogspot.com/2006/05/app ... d-t40.html
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2006-05/mac ... oard-irks/

[archer6]

Visited the Apple store again (I think it's an addiction) I might just have to get a black one so that I stop wasting so much time thinking about the purchase . However, I doubt it'll be my daily workhorse

OK foodle -

OK... OK... I'll admit it... I'm addicted (ThinkPads & Macs)

There probably is a Black MacBook with my name on it, so I too can stop wasting time thinking about it....

[christopher_wolf]

Anyone who would sit there and let themselves be burned sterile probably shouldn't be reproducing anyway.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11/22 ... th_laptop/

You cannot *imagine* the joy I get from posting that

If I were to actually get a MacBook, I would probably go with the black one; but it is hard to say. The Z61t is dual core, WSXGA+, and has a little webcam (the first thinkpad to have one built-in for a very long time). The keyboard looks OK and I am guessing it would seem similar to the thinkpad's.

[archer6]

If I were to actually get a MacBook, I would probably go with the black one; but it is hard to say. The Z61t is dual core, WSXGA+, and has a little webcam (the first thinkpad to have one built-in for a very long time).

I'm quite sure that the new T61t will prove to be a very nice machine. IMHO a superior notebook capable of much more than the MacBook. A much better primary use notebook.

While I'm getting closer to purchasing a Black MacBook, it's for secondary usage only. I would never even think about using it for my primary computer (or even a MBP for that matter). However that said, it's simply my humble opinion, as it applies to my situation.

In my particular case it would be just to have something different for the fun of it. I must admit I'm attracted to the design and "look" of it.

Having tried the keyboard, while it's useable, it's quite odd. The keys are flat on top, instead of being concave like every other keyboard I've used. As a result, it's easy to "slip off a key". However that would probably something that would be less of an issue as one gets used to it. The "shiny display" can be quite distracting under many conditions. The heat is just something I will adapt to unless I get one that's way out of spec, then it's return it immediately for another one. I plan on opening it up and using it in the Apple store before leaving. Since they have wifi in their stores that will also give me a chance to try that out as well. Regarding the flaking of the paint, I'm not really sure about that one, as the more research I do here on the web, the more I read about this being an issue. Last night I found an interesting article about it on a EU web site, however I forgot to capture the link so that I could post it here.

So in the final analysis my intellect says "don't be stupid & buy one" however the counterpoint to this is "new laptop lust".

Color me lustful....