Thinkpads Forum

Thanks for the DX9 link Pascal. I've found out it has nothing to do, I installed but still those mentioned games froze. Either they're unsupported by the FireGL or a piece of software is causing the freeze. Geoff Cramond's GP4 didn't work properly neither in my T42p, but in my old T30 it did: The FireGL is not compatible.

I thought I'd report on my experience. I had found that my T60p, running Vista, was hanging (or doing a panic shutdown) during use of SecondLife - some investigation showed that this was due to high temperature (CPU > 100 deg.C)


Interestingly I think the physical cooling system is capable of
handling cooling under this load, it's just that the BIOS doesn't direct it to.

Now whether the fan etc is out of spec, or whether the T60p thermal design is good enough is another matter

Summary of what I found (this is also after applying a Dyson vacuum to the air vents in the T60p)

Idle - BIOS control - 62 CPU 69 GPU
SecondLife+1 minute - BIOS control - 84 CPU 92 GPU
SecondLife+10 minutes - BIOS control = 92 CPU 100 GPU
... at this point I stopped since I know what happens...
SecondLife++ - Manual set fan speed to 4600 RPM -> Drops to 77/85 within
1 minute, stabalized at ~ 73/83

Right now I'm settling on tpfancontrol with
Level=55 0
Level=59 1
Level=63 2
Level=66 3
Level=69 4
Level=73 5
Level=76 6
Level=78 7
Level=80 64

The last value is warned against, but without it the cooling is marginal.

I believe the BIOS algorithm is inappropriate.

With this control I managed to soak-test Secondlife for > 2 hours last night with no hangs/crashes. Previously 15 mins or so was max.

Idle remains around 60/68, and my desktop power profile runs the CPU in adaptive mode, with Powerplay set to max performance (dropping it to lowest doesn't appear to result in any noticeable drop in temp)

finally - a clarification on the term "Idle" - by this I mean with my usual apps running - there's quite a lot, just nothing graphically intensive or spinning CPU & CPU usage is ~40% @ 1Ghz. Vista Aero interface is also enabled.

I've tried fan speeds up to the 7 you list, which keeps the fan under 4k RPM. This is just not sufficient as for one it doesn't noticeably cool the system at all when I change the fan from BIOS (2900-3400 RPM) to manual settings (3900).

And even with the fan set to 3900 RPM I'm still running consistently at 108-110 C GPU. The machine is like new and I've blown out all the fan vents with compressed air.

I had my first overheat = instant power off last night. It looks like things are only going to get worse if I don't open this thing up and void the warranty.

Great thread!

My T60p has been getting progressively more and more unstable over the last 6 months. Found out that CPU running at around 80 degrees Centigrade was the likely cause.

Vacuuming out the fan vents and blowing very hard into them to dislodge dust etc seems to have done the trick! Now running at around 60 degrees and stays up for more than a few hours now.

I decided against more major surgery as it's a company machine.

--Ricko

did anyone find a good thermal pad for video card?

In particular, the GPU temperature tends to get quite high--much higher than other components. The following is the data from my T60 after 2 hours of use.

CPU 44°C (0x78)
APS 32°C (0x79)
PCM 33°C (0x7a)
GPU 72°C (0x7b)
BAT 50°C (0x7c)
BAT 27°C (0x7e)
BUS 36°C (0xc0)
PCI 40°C (0xc1)
PWR 41°C (0xc2)

What program are you using to get this data?

TPfancontrol : http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=17715

there is one guy on this forum says he is using 0.19 version for T60, so I am wondering if it is real?

The best is 0.18svc witch runs as a service or the initial release. Other version have strange behaviour from time to time. I try them all before I step back to 0.18svc.

Try by yourself...

When using the GPU instensively (games), my thinpad goes hot and powers off.
it easily reachs 100.

i am not sure if this is a normal heat security behavior. has anyone noticed this?

Hi, I have T60p for some time and now i'm used to the fan noise And when the noise is missing i start to wonder Whats wrong
It idles around 70 too.

darrenf, tell me please how do you OC your card?
All the tools i tryed doesnt recognize my v5250?

Best regards

Blowing in the heat sink worked great for me, compressed air is not even necessary. It removed a lot of dust and the temperature dropped by about 10-15°C under load (WoW with full details in complex zones). The computer no longer crash, previously the GPU reached easily 100+°C, now it's around 85°C. When browsing the GPU is around 65°C.

This is with a T60p & FireGL 5200, Lenovo driver 8.362.0.0.

I have been trying to monitoring properly and "hack" the fan speed with tpfancontrol without success.

Eventually I tried to blow in the fan to remove the dust and I was amazed by the quantity of dust that was inside (the laptop is only 6mo old and stored in a sleeve when off). I also used compressed air to clean the heat sink fan properly.

then I tried again to hammer the GPU with Real TimeHDRIBL and the system only went up to 72 degrees max.

let's see how it goes over the weekend.

Holy cow! I have my 15.4" T61p apart in front of me, and its updated cooler looks like it will swap over to the T60 for a perfect fit! Same size, same bolt holes, etc.

GPU temps on the T61p are about 20C lower at idle than my T60, under load they are closer to 30-40C lower. Biggest change I spotted off the bat is it uses the keyboard as a thermal transfer point, and the heatsink above the GPU is bent at one section, allowing it to meet both northbridge and GPU with copper, instead of a thermal pad like the old T60 design.

Yea, can I get on this, too? I need a utility like that for my T60p with a FireGL V5200. Sometimes lowering it from Maximum performance to Balanced, or Power Saver does the trick, but boy, why did I get a Core Duo T60p if I'm only going to run it at half the speed because of a ventilation problem????????? That is not cool. And I've bought NOTHING but Thinkpads for 10 +years and I've never had problems like this.

own6volvos wrote:Holy cow! I have my 15.4" T61p apart in front of me, and its updated cooler looks like it will swap over to the T60 for a perfect fit! Same size, same bolt holes, etc.

GPU temps on the T61p are about 20C lower at idle than my T60, under load they are closer to 30-40C lower. Biggest change I spotted off the bat is it uses the keyboard as a thermal transfer point, and the heatsink above the GPU is bent at one section, allowing it to meet both northbridge and GPU with copper, instead of a thermal pad like the old T60 design.

Nice but still have to know about how high are the GPU and MCH. Also, there is a system to fix the fan assembly over the GPU on T60. Is it the same on T61 ?

Your both T6x have 15,4" screen ? Will you try the swap ?

Splaktar wrote:I've tried fan speeds up to the 7 you list, which keeps the fan under 4k RPM. This is just not sufficient as for one it doesn't noticeably cool the system at all when I change the fan from BIOS (2900-3400 RPM) to manual settings (3900).

And even with the fan set to 3900 RPM I'm still running consistently at 108-110 C GPU. The machine is like new and I've blown out all the fan vents with compressed air.

I had my first overheat = instant power off last night. It looks like things are only going to get worse if I don't open this thing up and void the warranty.

I had the same overheat problem with my GPU (100C+) a few months ago, and it turns out that Lenovo forgot to remove the plastic layer between the thermal compound and GPU, so the GPU was covered by that layer instead of having direct contact with the compound. My GPU temperature has never been beyond 85C since I removed the layer by myself.
PS: I was having the same kind of worry before I opened my T60, but a Senior technician from Lenovo told me that I won't void my warranty by doing so. I don't know if it is true, but at least he told me that over the phone.

Pascal_TTH wrote: Your both T6x have 15,4" screen ? Will you try the swap ?

The T61p is widescreen, and my T60 is 4:3 flexview.

Also, the laptop is owned by Lenovo, and its just in my possession for my review (which should be up on NBR in the next couple of days ). while I would *like* to try a heatsink assembly swap, that would be a bit too much for the loaner machine. Measurements of things on the other hand I am all for.

I dont think the heights will be a problem, as they look practically identical from looking at the spacing from the bottom of the plate to the PCB surface.

I have a T60p that I believe is affected by this GPU overheating problem.

Would I be able to fix it by removing the existing thermal cushion (which looked like a foam pad to me) and replacing it with just Arctic Silver 5? Or would I need to put a "copper plate" on there as well? Where does one get copper plates?

I think this thread has been very effective in sharing information and identifying the problem, maybe someone can consolidate all of the "fix" information into one easy post.[/i]

Bagels4All wrote:I have a T60p that I believe is affected by this GPU overheating problem.

Would I be able to fix it by removing the existing thermal cushion (which looked like a foam pad to me) and replacing it with just Arctic Silver 5? Or would I need to put a "copper plate" on there as well? Where does one get copper plates?

I think this thread has been very effective in sharing information and identifying the problem, maybe someone can consolidate all of the "fix" information into one easy post.[/i]

I don't think simply replacing the thermal cushion with AS5 can solve your problem. The thermal compound is thick for a reason, namely to fill the 3-4mm gap between the HSF and the GPU die. Unless you apply 3-4mm thick of AS5, the HSF/AS5 won't be able to have direct contact with the GPU chip.
Basically, I think it is a bad design. Although I heard that there exists two rev. version of the FRU part #41V9932 (the HSF for all Core Duo processors and maybe some 2MB cache Core 2 Duo processors), and one of the rev. version has a better design and makes the GPU much cooler. Look at the post by ronan_zj:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=47164

I don't really utilize the graphics card. My T60p overheats and turns off if I set it down on the bed or a couch cushion to use it. On hard surfaces, I have not had this problem. So I tend to keep it off the bed

own6volvos wrote:

Pascal_TTH wrote: Your both T6x have 15,4" screen ? Will you try the swap ?

The T61p is widescreen, and my T60 is 4:3 flexview.

Also, the laptop is owned by Lenovo, and its just in my possession for my review (which should be up on NBR in the next couple of days ). while I would *like* to try a heatsink assembly swap, that would be a bit too much for the loaner machine. Measurements of things on the other hand I am all for.

I dont think the heights will be a problem, as they look practically identical from looking at the spacing from the bottom of the plate to the PCB surface.

That's the kind of tweak I only try with loaned laptops or hardware, not mine ! Yes, I also suppose components have standard hight (or nearly). Some comparatives picts of the fan assembly will be very nice to know if swap is possible. Also, can you look carefully at the other fixing parts ? I'am sure it will be fine on the CPU side but for the GPU, according to picture, there are some different plates to fix the fan assembly to the roll cage.

dickeywang wrote:

Bagels4All wrote:I have a T60p that I believe is affected by this GPU overheating problem.

Would I be able to fix it by removing the existing thermal cushion (which looked like a foam pad to me) and replacing it with just Arctic Silver 5? Or would I need to put a "copper plate" on there as well? Where does one get copper plates?

I think this thread has been very effective in sharing information and identifying the problem, maybe someone can consolidate all of the "fix" information into one easy post.[/i]

I don't think simply replacing the thermal cushion with AS5 can solve your problem. The thermal compound is thick for a reason, namely to fill the 3-4mm gap between the HSF and the GPU die. Unless you apply 3-4mm thick of AS5, the HSF/AS5 won't be able to have direct contact with the GPU chip.
Basically, I think it is a bad design. Although I heard that there exists two rev. version of the FRU part #41V9932 (the HSF for all Core Duo processors and maybe some 2MB cache Core 2 Duo processors), and one of the rev. version has a better design and makes the GPU much cooler. Look at the post by ronan_zj:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=47164

Using as many AS5 as the pad is useless. You need to find a copper plate as thin as the pad. Look at my picture, it's exactly the same height as the fan main plate of a T41p fan assembly (and for sure from most ThinkPad fanassembly). The pad is a bit thiner in the GPU contact area, at this point, it fit exactly the copper plate.

http://www.tt-hardware.com/img/news5/news130807_4.gif

has anyone tried the following:
1. underclock the CPU.
2. turn off one CPU
I am wondering if the above would make significant difference. i really don't like the way my T60 fan runs constantly. most of the time I use my laptop for internet and ms word and i don't really need all the power.

By using some software like RightMarkCPU, you can create profiles for any use. Those profiles can fix the CPU multiplicator so you can choose any max frequency. You can also force the CPU to stay at the lowest frequency.

You can not disable one execution core... That's not possible.

I have been following this thread because I have some freezing issues that I suspect were caused by my GPU. I just found this update from Microsoft that addresses the same issue, and thought it might be helpful for others.

"There are stability issues with some graphics processing units (GPUs). These issues could cause GPUs to stop responding (hang)."

It is available here:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=938194

I'm not sure if this update is part of Windows Update, or if it's only for those who have these issues. It may be so new that it hasn't trickled out yet.

Pascal_TTH wrote:You can not disable one execution core... That's not possible.

you can disable one CPU in bios.
i have also followed this thread. what makes me wonder is that some people can have their thinkpad run all evening without the fun turning on (using tpfcontrol) while others like me can't:
here is an example:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=26491

mattbiernat wrote:

Pascal_TTH wrote:You can not disable one execution core... That's not possible.

you can disable one CPU in bios.
i have also followed this thread. what makes me wonder is that some people can have their thinkpad run all evening without the fun turning on (using tpfcontrol) while others like me can't:
here is an example:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=26491

I'am not sure that the second core is physically disable it's more a logical disable to ensure compatibility with older OS. I never check if it have an impact on the heat. I will reboot now and disable the second core.

PS : Not great, it seems the CPU stays a full speed with one core disable and temp goes higher...

I have a T60p with a very hot GPU. I have sent it in to be "repaired" multiple times (and had my planar/motherboard replaced) with no change. It's become so bad that it will overheat and shut down just sitting idle at the desktop in Window XP.

Does the T61p have this same issue? It uses an entirely different GPU chipset, so I was thinking of buying one while the current sale is going on, but I feel like I'm setting myself up for another disappointment, especially since Lenovo seems to be refusing to admit there is obviously a huge problem with the T60p.

Chead, re T61p and heat, you may want to check out this thread:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=49263

Also below is a post yesterday by FNAFHE in the thread -
No MORE WUXGA on T61P?

"I have a T61p, and the same LCD running 2.4 GHz, great laptop if its running single chanel ram.

If I put in dule chanel (2x2GB ram = 4GB) it will overheat and power off. I'm considering asking for my
monie back if the next one does the same thing (they are sending me a NEW one to see if it will work
'my 2 cents: Motherboard is a design flaw')"