Thinkpads Forum

Intel gave at the Munich Airport the first real world benchmark session on the new Core2 Duo Conroes. The processors are being shipped already to selected OEMs!
They are supposed to run circles around the Core Duos and still have a coffee break in between.

Interesting to see that processors are almost plug-in compatible to the usual Core Duos.

Of Course: The new ThinkPads with Conroes!

http://business.thgweb.de/2006/05/24/intel_conroe/
(scroll down)

So, who would be so still buy an expensive T60, when the T61 are already peeking round the corner?

I guess, in August I will get me one of those.

Thanks for finding the article. Quite interesting.

According to the roadmap that somebody else found, the T61 is not supposed to be released until January 2007. There is supposed to be a "minor update" in August, this seems to indicate a speed boost, rather than a new processor.

In the article it mentions that the chip will be released to OEMs in a couple of weeks, but that does not explain how they can demo ThinkPads with Core 2 Duo already. Obviously the meaning of this statement is a little obscure and there is proof that Lenovo, for one, has been working with Intel on design already (which makes sense -- you would think it takes longer than 6 months to take a new chip from design to market).

There is no hint or indication in the article that the Core 2 Duo "run[s] circles" around the Core Duo. They did mention that they were not permitted to publish benchmarks results at this time.

The possibility that the Core 2 is compatible with Core Duo pinout and bios was discussed in a previous thread.

My personal opinion? Bringing 2 CPUs together has brought a big leap in performance over Pentium M. The difference going from Core Duo to Core 2 Duo is going to be a lot less.

astro wrote:Thanks for finding the article. Quite interesting.

According to the roadmap that somebody else found, the T61 is not supposed to be released until January 2007. There is supposed to be a "minor update" in August, this seems to indicate a speed boost, rather than a new processor.

In the article it mentions that the chip will be released to OEMs in a couple of weeks, but that does not explain how they can demo ThinkPads with Core 2 Duo already. Obviously the meaning of this statement is a little obscure and there is proof that Lenovo, for one, has been working with Intel on design already (which makes sense -- you would think it takes longer than 6 months to take a new chip from design to market).

There is no hint or indication in the article that the Core 2 Duo "run[s] circles" around the Core Duo. They did mention that they were not permitted to publish benchmarks results at this time.

The possibility that the Core 2 is compatible with Core Duo pinout and bios was discussed in a previous thread.

My personal opinion? Bringing 2 CPUs together has brought a big leap in performance over Pentium M. The difference going from Core Duo to Core 2 Duo is going to be a lot less.

Sorry, my mistake (and I should study more German grammar). I got confused with Merom and Conroe. They are the same, but different. Conroe is far more powerful than the Merom. I got the benchmark data directly from Intel and Conroe seems to be by far the most powerful consumer CPU on the planet.

However, what makes me wonder is, when Intel announced the Yonah in January this year they also showcased the new ThinkPads. The T60 then appeared a few weeks later on the market. If they showcase the Merom now, again with ThinkPads, why would the first Merom ThinkPads appear in Q1/2007. There are already private Conroe benchmarks on the internet.
We have May 2006 now. A delivery delay of app. 9 months seems a bit too long, doesn't it?
If Intel is ramping up on July 23, as annnounced, IBM/Lenovo has always been among the first to present their new stuff.

Strange...

astro wrote:My personal opinion? Bringing 2 CPUs together has brought a big leap in performance over Pentium M. The difference going from Core Duo to Core 2 Duo is going to be a lot less.

Especially when they increased the L2 to core bandwidth, as for some very intensive applications that use two cores sharing the same die and L2 cache, that can be a limitation. I am also thrilled to see EM64T support for the Merom; which, for sure, will allow the native addressing of more than 4GB of memory by the processor itself.

Combine this with a doubling of both the L2 cache and the number of FP/sec that can be done (not to mention the addition of two extra pipelines) and you will certainly get a snappier processor for even 32-bit roles (as there will be some form of WOW32 running 64bit Windows platforms by the time Microsoft does get around to it).

Should be interesting to see the benchmarks come out.

No thinkpad will ever have Conroe.

Theyll have Merom

Conroe is far more powerful than the Merom.

Nope. Theyre the exact same core. Merom just has more power saving features, a slower FSB to conserve power and slower clock speeds. architechturely, they are exactly the same.

I am also thrilled to see EM64T support for the Merom; which, for sure, will allow the native addressing of more than 4GB of memory by the processor itself.

All Intel's 32bit chips can support up to 64GB memory, since the P3... with the exception of the Banias. Intel processors use 36 memory addressing pins and the reason you cannot see the full 4GB in windows is because of the way the bios handles it... just like in a 16bit system when the "max" was 64k or whatever, the full 64k was not avaliable to the system. This is due to memory overhead, same thing with 32bit. the chip can see up to 64g's, but when the bios maps it, it goes for the first 3 GB, addresses it, and the last gig is put in a memory hole... 25%. if the BIOS is smart, it can still address that memory by mapping it after the 3-4GB memory hole, in the 5GB "spot"

One of the things that is going to increase performance substantionally on these chips is the ability to complete SSE instructions in one cycle... its also a 4-issue wide core, should be pretty awesome.

i wish i could see if that t61 comes with a DVI port http://images.thgweb.de/2006/05/25/inte ... books1.jpg

Roisin wrote:i wish i could see if that t61 comes with a DVI port http://images.thgweb.de/2006/05/25/inte ... books1.jpg

I highly doubt it. Its a Napa refresh, so Lenovo is probably gonna use the same exact machine, maybe slap on a video upgrade, and brand it T61.

In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if the reason its not coming out earlier than January is so they can ship with Vista preinstalled.

The last intro date I saw for Merom was August; the published date from the first of the year was September. This is around the same time Thinkpad traditionally/usually intro's its new models. The T5500/5600 will have the 2MB cache...the T7XXX series will 4MB.

The major revisions to the MOBO/chipsets will be in Q1/Q2 07 when it will sit in "Santa Rosa" equipped platforms:

It would use Crestline GM chipsets using ICH8M, and support "Kedron" 802.11.n/a.b.g wireless LAN, EM64T and "Nineveh" LAN. Typical Merom chips might be the T5000 or T7000 microprocessors. Such T7000 processors will clock at 2.33GHz, 2.16GHz, 2GHz and 1.83GHz, with 667MHz system buses and 4MB of cache, apart from the 1.83GHz model. Intel will also roll out Celeron M chips using Merom cores.

(from the Inquirer)

lithium726 wrote:

Roisin wrote:i wish i could see if that t61 comes with a DVI port http://images.thgweb.de/2006/05/25/inte ... books1.jpg

I highly doubt it. Its a Napa refresh, so Lenovo is probably gonna use the same exact machine, maybe slap on a video upgrade, and brand it T61.

In fact, I wouldnt be surprised if the reason its not coming out earlier than January is so they can ship with Vista preinstalled.

Yeah, that is going to be interesting with Vista. Before/after xmas or whenever MS thinks they can ship. I am quite sure it will be delayed longer. With the urgently required first patches and service packs to deal with the most prominent exploits I count with summer 2007. Then I highly doubt that PC manufacturers will wait that long. My guess is we will see the first Merom based notebooks by end of this year with XP (potentially with a free Vista upgrade, but who would upgrade anyway with a fully installed hard disk?)
Vista is going to be a huge mess in terms of OEM/consumer deliveries.

What I got from the Intel reports was, that Merom is kind of pin compatible with the current Core Duo, so T60 Thinkpads will need only marginal modifications (BIOS update?).

lithium726 wrote:No thinkpad will ever have Conroe.

Theyll have Merom

Conroe is far more powerful than the Merom.

Nope. Theyre the exact same core. Merom just has more power saving features, a slower FSB to conserve power and slower clock speeds. architechturely, they are exactly the same.

I am also thrilled to see EM64T support for the Merom; which, for sure, will allow the native addressing of more than 4GB of memory by the processor itself.

All Intel's 32bit chips can support up to 64GB memory, since the P3... with the exception of the Banias. Intel processors use 36 memory addressing pins and the reason you cannot see the full 4GB in windows is because of the way the bios handles it... just like in a 16bit system when the "max" was 64k or whatever, the full 64k was not avaliable to the system. This is due to memory overhead, same thing with 32bit. the chip can see up to 64g's, but when the bios maps it, it goes for the first 3 GB, addresses it, and the last gig is put in a memory hole... 25%. if the BIOS is smart, it can still address that memory by mapping it after the 3-4GB memory hole, in the 5GB "spot"

One of the things that is going to increase performance substantionally on these chips is the ability to complete SSE instructions in one cycle... its also a 4-issue wide core, should be pretty awesome.

No, since P3, Intel CPUs can use PAE which is a trick to go beyond 4GB but at cost of performance (and it has a BIG hit).
With a 64bit CPU you won't get any performance hit.

BTW, the 3GB thing can be solved with the correct option to be passed to the NT kernel. You'll then be able to use 4GB.