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T60 outdated? T61 as well, going straight to T62 in Q1/200/?
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:55 pm
by beeblebrox
I have been looking forward to upgrade to a new Dual Core Notebook.
Thought, that Core 2 Duo would be my next purchase, this fall. Should have been something like the T61?
But, Intel is already showing fully functional Dells with the successor of Merom, which has not even hit the market in volumes. Scheduled for Q3/2006.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2778
So, in Q1/2007 there will be Windows Vista with Intel "Robson" technology. Who is going to buy Core 2 Duo notebooks then, which instantly looks like museum inventory?
It really seems to me that the moment to slide your credit card for your new purchase, your gadget instantly becomes outdated...
... and on your the way to the store exit, the salesman puts the new model on the shelf.
Re: T60 outdated? T61 as well, going straight to T62 in Q1/2
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:24 pm
by christopher_wolf
beeblebrox wrote:I have been looking forward to upgrade to a new Dual Core Notebook.
Thought, that Core 2 Duo would be my next purchase, this fall. Should have been something like the T61?
But, Intel is already showing fully functional Dells with the successor of Merom, which has not even hit the market in volumes. Scheduled for Q3/2006.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2778
So, in Q1/2007 there will be Windows Vista with Intel "Robson" technology. Who is going to buy Core 2 Duo notebooks then, which instantly looks like museum inventory?
It really seems to me that the moment to slide your credit card for your new purchase, your gadget instantly becomes outdated...
... and on your the way to the store exit, the salesman puts the new model on the shelf.
They also showed "T61s" with Merom and further capability; Intel has already rolled out some demo models of the quad-core Kentsfield already.
It seems to me like Intel has suddenly sprung into "Attack Formation" and is preparing for a blitzkrieg or some sort of rush to get the systems out and deployed whilst AMD is going about trying to fortify their position with the AMD2 and a possible merger with ATI.
The good old hardware wars seemed to be over for a few years where you could safely buy a new system and know, not if it would be trumped...because it would, but *when* it would be trumped. Meaning that the rate of the increase of performance didn't keep growing exponentially. It seems like all that is about to change somewhat in the coming years with Intel, AMD, and others gearing up.
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:49 pm
by snife
I'm waiting on the T96 personally.
Seriously, I thought this was a joke when I first read the title post - why are people so concerned about whats coming out in the future, with that attitude you will never buy any piece of technology as there is always something better and cheaper coming out.
The T60 is a great machine, if you need a new machine now then you should buy now IMHO.
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:03 pm
by kwramm
gotta agree with snife. If you need a kick [censored] machine now, get a t60p and jump over your own shadow...or just keep waiting and make the same post in 6 months again asking if you should get a t62 or wait for the t64 instead
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:16 pm
by jvarszegi
That's a skewed article if I ever saw one. As if hybrid hard drives were made specifically with Windows Vista in mind.
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:48 pm
by rockefella
You should just collect them all, like baseball cards! Get the T60 now, then the T61, and so on!
As for me, I think the T60 and the Core Duo will be plenty sufficient for MS Word, Excel and Firefox for several years to come.
I don't see why I'd need the latest and greatest CPUs for a business machine, particularly since I have a strict policy of never installing any game software on my work computers.
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:06 pm
by BillMorrow
thinkpads, at least the higher end thinkpads, all have three year warranties.. extendable to five years..
unless you buy computers to feed your ego rather than your actual needs, a current model should last through its warranty period and beyond..
2010 for current models..
and unless vista (which should have been in my [censored] mailbox by now) is far more demanding and far more productive than XP, why bother with the newest and fastest until you need it..?
the ONLY reason i get a new one every time (so far) is i run the web site..
otherwise why bother..
this argument has gone on and on and on for 15 years with computers and far longer with other major goods..
do you buy a new dishwasher every year..?
<sigh>
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:29 pm
by GomJabbar
rockefella wrote:You should just collect them all, like baseball cards! Get the T60 now, then the T61, and so on!
I love that idea!
My wallet doesn't.
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 7:56 pm
by bri
It does seem, however, that the *1, *2, etc. later models in the series retain at least a 50% resale value over the *0 model (seems to me while looking at the X20, T20 and T40 series) while they are at the most 6 months newer ...
Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:00 pm
by CupOfJoe
BillMorrow wrote:do you buy a new dishwasher every year..?
Excellent point... Granted the advancements in dishwasher technology may be on a somewhat different pace than that of computers -- but you still gotta look at the pertinent point here: are your dishes continuing to be washed adequately?
-CupOfJoe
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:59 am
by drblue
do you buy a new dishwasher every year..?
A valid point. Yet, do your dishes get bigger by 30% (or the complexity of the dish shape increase by 30%) every year? If it does, you certainly need a new dish washer every year
In the computer world, dishes do get bigger by 30% every year. For example, the megapixels on digital cameras have gone from 1-2M to 7-8M during only 5-6 years, and you need much more processing power, disk space, etc. Granted that my old T21 (PIII) could handle 8M pixel photos quite well, working with those (e.g., ACDSee or Photoshop) is much more pleasant to work with T60.
My point is that the time you need a new computer is "when you feel you need it" -- whether it is when your computer is absolutely obsolete or when you want to achieve only 5% performance improvement.
Having said that, if a new T-series with a better processor comes out in the near-future (3-4 months), and I don't need a new computer now, I would wait. Some model changes are more important than others, and it seems this new processor (arguably 20-30% faster) well qualifies as something that you may want to wait for. I bought one recently only because I need it (and more importantly because my computer pays for it
).
Re: T60 outdated? T61 as well, going straight to T62 in Q1/2
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:19 pm
by NeoMatrix
My guess is that Vista will
require machines with this technology to run at speeds that users expect.
It is never a good time to get a new computer...something new will always be around the corner. So, you buy a new computer when you need one and/or when your current computer is obsolete.
Re: T60 outdated? T61 as well, going straight to T62 in Q1/2
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:41 pm
by archer6
Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2006 11:05 pm
by chrisnyc
As several have said, it all depends on your needs. My T42 with Pentium M 1 GHz processor and memory upgraded to 1 GB is hardly "obsolete" to me, nor is Windows XP which I have gotten to know and like, and the T42 is capable of doing everything I need to do, which is nothing more intensive than occassionally ripping music tracks or burning a CD or DVD. My T42 is going on a year old now and I have over two years left on the warranty.
Bill -- I didn't know that Lenovo offered up to a 5 year warranty. Can a 3 year warranty (Thinkpad Plus) actually be upgraded to 5 years ? Not that that's really needed, as I'm sure I'll have a new computer by then.
That having been said (about the one-year-old technology still being just fine for me) -- my 4 1/2 year old Dell Inspiron 8100, while it still works, I do consider "over the hill" and obsolete ; in addition to the case creaking and being about to fall apart, functionally it balks and slows to a crawl even doing some of the basic taks I mentioned.
So for those of us who use our Thinkpads for "regular" type tasks, we don't need to worry ourselves over the latest processors, etc.
Will I be waiting another 2 years to buy a new Thinkpad (or possibly another brand -- I have an open mind) ? I don't think so !
Re: T60 outdated? T61 as well, going straight to T62 in Q1/2
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:53 am
by snife
NeoMatrix wrote:
My guess is that Vista will
require machines with this technology to run at speeds that users expect.
It is never a good time to get a new computer...something new will always be around the corner. So, you buy a new computer when you need one and/or when your current computer is obsolete.
I dunno - i have been doing most of my Vista testing on a T60 (not a p) with the X1300 and only 512MB of ram, granted I have not been photoshopping on it, but the basic OS and office 2007 I have no speed complaints with; I've not really confirmed this with any testing but the latest beta 2 seems much faster than the february CTP.
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:40 pm
by archer6
chrisnyc wrote:My T42 with Pentium M 1 GHz processor and memory upgraded to 1 GB is hardly "obsolete" to me, nor is Windows XP which I have gotten to know and like, and the T42 is capable of doing everything I need to do.
So for those of us who use our Thinkpads for "regular" type tasks, we don't need to worry ourselves over the latest processors, etc.
I find that every so often, there is a particular model that turns out to be one of my favorites. In that category is my T42. (it's actually a tie now w/T60)
When you have a computer that's as nice as the T42 and it's meeting your needs you're all set. The beauty of being in your position is that you can indeed use it for a long time and truly enjoy the value of it's durability, reliability & functionality....
The icing on the cake is all the money you save and as they say; laugh all the way to the bank....
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:19 pm
by FlexOink
I dont agree 100% with the pattern of thinking in which people say that "its never a good time to buy hardware".
I agree that technology is going to be progressive, and you'll just have to accept it, because indeed you will have absolete hardware 1 week after you bought it.
But, the upcoming Core 2 Duo is 64bits, wich is sorta a new era in processor-world. I for one would hate to spend 3000 dollar on a machine that is the last one of the 'old 32bits technology', a last of its kind.
Taking into account that you buy a Thinkpad for 3+ years I'd wait for either the T61 or certainty that the T60 motherboards will support the new meron processor.
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:47 pm
by kwramm
32 bit will be around with us for a long time in the consumer area. Just think of it. Vista is delayed. Vista 64 bit will come after the delayed 32 bit version. Then all the XP apps will slowly adapt to vista. Even MS admitted that full 64 bit computing won't be a thing Vista will achieve. Instead they plan to make a full 64 bit move after Vista (maybe? they're MS hehe).
Until then I would call 32 bit pretty safe, given the fact that we already have 64 bit computing with XP 64 Bit edition and nobody seems to care as far as the mainstream computing world is concerned. As long as the majority uses 32 bit a lot of companies won't bother to release 64 bit versions as well. I don't see that changing with Vista.
One major reason I can see to wait for 64 bit is being able to address more than 3 GB RAM in yout T6x.
The only other reason I can think of are specialty applications, like 3D rendering (you really want to do that on a notebook?!), CAD, math and simulation or 64 bit dependent coding.
And don't forget, in 3 years your merom may be 64 bit ready, but it's still a slow 3 year old CPU. Just like with the powermacs. Sure you can run OS X with your 200 MHz G3, but it ain't pretty or particularly productive.
I would still call it too early to bother "is my cpu 64 bit or not?". 32 bit computing isn't going away over night. Lots and lots of people will still be using 32 bit software and hardware for years to come. Just as there are still lots of people who use windows 98
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:47 pm
by jjesusfreak01
Remember though that Windows Vista 64bit isnt the one you want to go for at the moment because of a lack of driver support. Although the newer processors may be faster, 64 vs 32 shouldnt be an issue.
Well, ive been beaten to the post...
Re: T60 outdated? T61 as well, going straight to T62 in Q1/2
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:25 pm
by NeoMatrix
NeoMatrix wrote:
...My guess is that Vista will require machines with this technology to run at speeds that users expect...
Just as I thought, the following article says that the hybrid hard drives will be
required for a system to get "Vista Premium" labelling.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/06/12/hybri ... a_premium/
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:02 pm
by wantathinkpad
Fall in love with thinkpads the beauty, the quality, the service. Not whats on the inside.
I can't begin to describe (although i didn in a post in APril)how much I love my thin, reliable T43 and the service. I don't want any other laptop until this one starts showing its age. Which wont be for years.
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:51 am
by Nilonym
wantathinkpad wrote:I can't begin to describe (although i didn in a post in APril)how much I love my thin, reliable T43 and the service. I don't want any other laptop until this one starts showing its age. Which wont be for years.
QFT, wantathinkpad. My T40p will be four years old in March. It's on its fourth motherboard (original T40ps had trouble with the video cards overheating), third keyboard, second set of plastics, and second LCD. In fact, the only original part is the hard drive. That may sound like I've had a lot of problems, but I work for a video game company and use my notebook hard for 12 hours a day. When I've had a problem, the on-site service had it repaired within 24 hours.
I'll be upgrading to a Santa Rosa based T61 in April, but it will be with a touch of regret. This old girl has been my faithful companion for four years, and whereas I usually view "old" electronics with disdain, I want to find some way to let my T40p retire gracefully and with dignity.
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:44 pm
by cybyte
Will the T61 have a new top of the line video card? 512mb?
please say yes
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:00 pm
by tomh009
The integrated graphics in Santa Rosa (Intel GMA X3000) will also incorporate hardware transform & lightining, pixel shaders and vertex shaders, so the performance should be quite good.
But admittedly it will not be targeted at gaming, unless you count Sudoku in that category. ; )
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:20 pm
by cybyte
lol. Well that was disappointing then. I was hoping for a dx10 video card
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:25 pm
by agarza
Nilonym wrote:, but I work for a video game company and use my notebook hard for 12 hours a day. When I've had a problem, the on-site service had it repaired within 24 hours.
Gotta love your work! The Thinkpads are the most reliable laptops on the world, maybe your T40 was not equipped with the long fan (or maybe IBM didn't manufacture those at the time T40's were out to the market)
I love gaming, love to encode songs and transfer those to my Sony MP3 player.
People should not be worried if when you buy a new laptop it becomes quickly
outdated is not. Here in my country is very expensive to get a Thinkpad:
Code: Select all
Windows® XP Profesional Original | Intel® Core™ Duo T2300 (L2 Cache: 2MB) Processor | Memoy: (est./máx.) 512MB (533MHz / 2GB) PC2 4200 DDR2 | HDD: 60GB (5400 rpm) | LCD: 14.1" TFT XGA (1024x768) | CD/DVD | Combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW (24x24x24x8x) | Módem 56K V.92 | Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
For that configuration the price is about 1760USD (without SXGA+ screen, without FireGL card and without 7200rpm)
And you can't configure it, I take you should contact a representative and ask for a different configuration.
This machine where I'm typing on (T42p: is less than one year old, because I bought it from a woman who worked at IBM Mexico) She offered it for 1050USD. I agreed. But the machine is brand new.
How would you think I feel that I invested in getting a Pentium M 745 processor instead of getting a Core2duo machine? It felt good. Pentium M are quite fast, about 100% improvement over a 1.6GHz P4.
IF you want a decent Thinkpad and don't like to wait a lot of time, wait until Centrino Pro comes out, but you would later
regret you didn't wait more to get a hybrid HDD, well, that's the way technology is. Is hard to keep up but the important thing is to valorate what you have.
Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:26 pm
by tomh009
cybyte wrote:lol. Well that was disappointing then. I was hoping for a dx10 video card
The GMA X3000 is supposed to be DirectX 10 compatible.
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:58 pm
by claudeo
The bottom line is this: If you can buy it, it's already obsolete.
So take a deep breath and jump... life's too short.
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:58 pm
by Nilonym
claudeo wrote:The bottom line is this: If you can buy it, it's already obsolete. So take a deep breath and jump... life's too short.
I somewhat disagree. There is a difference between never being happy with what you have, and making a smart decision about when to upgrade. I've waited four years to upgrade - I can certainly wait another four months so that I can get in at the start of a new platform.
I think that this is sage advice for those who are always wringing their hands about missing out on the Next Big Thing, but there is nothing wrong with maximizing your value based on a little research.
Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:08 pm
by RUSH2112
claudeo wrote:The bottom line is this: If you can buy it, it's already obsolete.
So take a deep breath and jump... life's too short.
I agree. It's the same idea with cars. I do not think I've kept a laptop for more than six months (average 1-3 mo) because every time I bought one, I would almost instantly begin wanting to upgrade.
I have had my X60s since August, which I think is a new record for me. I *hope* to keep this for at least another year or so, but we'll see. I've already been tempted to get an X60t.
