Thinkpads Forum

I was playing around with my friend's 1-yr old HP DV1000 yesterday and when I was about to close the screen, one very very slight finger push slammed down the LCD screen. I was surprised at HP quality for that part.

I know this is a very minor thing but will Thinkpads loosen like that eventually? Or will the joints maintain its stiffness?

I was quite shocked at HP quality for that. Also, some of the HP's keys seemed like it was going to come off anytime soon...pretty bad for a machine that's barely 1 year old.

my T40p closes the same as on the first day, it is now 3 years old and I used it every day.

For my taste the T60p (15") hinges are a little too stiff. You need to hold the base to open the lid and I guess this will never change.

My ThinkPad T42 is doing great. The LCD hinges are great - work just like new. The keys are held in place as if they were new as well. The markings on the keys are also perfect. As a matter of fact, if I took some laptop cleaning solution and gave my T42 a quick clean you might think she was brand new. Although I have to admit, I do clean her up every 4 or so months.

Pretty good for a 2-year old machine. It was my first ThinkPad and I'm incredibly impressed with the build quality. It's doing so well that I feel a bit sad knowing that in a few months I have a new X60s to occupy most of my mobile use .

My A20 = I use it as a Lotus Domino Server and it works 365 days a year since 2000; Only one hdd faillure

X31 = never had a problem works everyday since 2003. Like new

T41P = same story

T60P

etc, etc,

My T42 screen hinges work the same as they did when I first got it. That's one of the selling points of Thinkpads, their sturdy and durable screen hinges.

My T42 is doing great too, and I too am somewhat sad about the T60 that is going to be delivered today. My T42 will be pretty much relegated to a closet shelf and will become my backup work computer, in the event my T60 has a catastrophic failure. It has served me well.

Although, I have to say, the T42, even with 1 GB of RAM, did tend to chug a lot whenever I had 10 applications open (which is all the time and necessary for the work I do - lawyering). Based on the reports I've been hearing, this shouldn't be a problem for the T60. Sigh, can you tell I've got T60-itis?

jagged wrote:I was playing around with my friend's 1-yr old HP DV1000 yesterday and when I was about to close the screen, one very very slight finger push slammed down the LCD screen. I was surprised at HP quality for that part.

I know this is a very minor thing

Actually this is not a minor thing, it's that HP is selling laptops of very poor quality. The buying public assumes because of the HP name that they are getting a good laptop.

jagged wrote:I was quite shocked at HP quality for that. Also, some of the HP's keys seemed like it was going to come off anytime soon...pretty bad for a machine that's barely 1 year old.

This issue with the keys, and other problems are simply the norm for this brand. If HP were to buy from a different vendor and have the notebook built to a standard the same as their printers, then the result would be acceptable. So in this particular case as the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

ThinkPad... the gold standard for notebook computers period. I live in a city that has many medical businesses. Cancer centers/speciality hospitals, reasearch centers and the like. We also have a university here know for it's business school. So when one goes into a Starbucks for example you see a lot of sales reps for the various drug companies etc. The "all" are using ThinkPads issued by their corporations. Most of the university students use ThinkPads.

So, the answer to your question is simple. Buy a ThinkPad and you will enjoy very long life, complete tech support and a comprehensive warranty policy. I know this from personal experience with many ThinkPads both personally and for my corporations.

I don't have my T60 yet, but one of the BIG reasons I bought it (and a T40, two T42s and an X41T, all in service) is that they hold up extremely well. Not just mechanically but battery-wise too. In fact I have converted several of my work associates to Thinkpads becuase the cost of ownership is quite low and the real cost of a Thinkpad is competitive with the low cost junk out there. My Dell friends toss batteries once a year (they tend to "fall off a cliff" rather suddenly) while mine march along. My T40 still runs a 4 year old battery with 50% of its original capacity left

Thinkpad hinges are indeed tough stuff. I received a X20 with some slop in the hinge, took it apart to discover thick, industrial-strength, full metal hinges that just needed their mounting screws to be tightened a bit. Functions just like new now.

Another thing I notice at the DV1000 was that the mouse pad looked shiny and it seemed as if there was a small crater in the middle from too much use while the card reader couldn't read memory stick duos well.

HP's consumer models are actually reasonable priced but I guess there's a reason why warranty is only good 1 year. I wonder how HP business models' quality are in comparison though.

jagged wrote:HP's consumer models are actually reasonable priced but I guess there's a reason why warranty is only good 1 year. I wonder how HP business models' quality are in comparison though.

Lemme help answer that. They suck. I've had two Omnibooks and the while mechanicals initially felt better than the consumer stuff, they quickly degrade. Electricals were horrible as well with various power problems (BSOD, not software or firmware related), battery charging circuits that didn't, intermittent mPCI connectors, etc. And then there's the service which was the worst ever. Getting an RMA was a nightmare, the work wouldn't be completed, and the worst part is that HP would outright lie. For example, when I complained that my battery charger didn't work (but the batteries charged fine when plugged into the other machine) they sent it back and claimed it was "fixed" by replacing the battery, including an invoice showing all the diagnosis and parts that were included. The machine not only still didn't work, but the battery was NOT replaced. I knew this becuase I had written down the smart battery serial number before sending it to them - and it came back to me like a faithful dog. The regular service depot (which HP does NOT own or operate BTW, they contract repair services) couldn't fix it so it was repaired by hand at the HP portable products engineering facility in Colorado. They had no formal tracking or process documentation in place there (which wasn't a surprise given its a design facility) and they machine got lost, then refound, then got buried since there was no queue, no priority system, nothing. While it sat there the warrantee expired and HP had the gall to tell me that they weren't obligated to fix it even though I had an open ticket for months prior to that. Overall it took 5 months to fix that one problem.

rvacha wrote:In fact I have converted several of my work associates to Thinkpads becuase the cost of ownership is quite low and the real cost of a Thinkpad is competitive with the low cost junk out there.

Precisely! When one takes into consideration the long life of a ThinkPad, suddenly it becomes not only price competitive, but inexpensive. Spreading the purchase price across the lifespan of the computer, owning a ThinkPad is a real bargain. Then let's take it one step futher. Factoring in the downtime with other brands as compared to ThinkPad, suddenly the ThinkPad becomes a very smart investment.

jagged wrote:I was playing around with my friend's 1-yr old HP DV1000 yesterday and when I was about to close the screen, one very very slight finger push slammed down the LCD screen. I was surprised at HP quality for that part.

I know this is a very minor thing but will Thinkpads loosen like that eventually? Or will the joints maintain its stiffness?

I was quite shocked at HP quality for that. Also, some of the HP's keys seemed like it was going to come off anytime soon...pretty bad for a machine that's barely 1 year old.

No, the Thinkpads will not loosen up like that at all; I have my decade+1 year old 701c and the screen hinges, as well as the TrackWrite folding mechanism, are just as tight and robust as the day I got them. All of the other 600 Series and 700 Series system I have had had tight, robust screen hinges and that never went away no matter how fast or slowly you closed it however many times. The reason that the TCO for the life of a Thinkpad is so good is that it actually *does* last a long time and is robust, a rare thing in the laptop market.


My HP ze5170 was, literally, obselete out of the box; HP's quality has gone down and they have been drifting towards more of a Dell-like stance on computers. It was kinda sad to hear of somebody like HP, which had high quality systems and lab equipment, eventually start selling those useful divisions off and concentrating on becoming a "media PC maker." Also, they keyboards and screens went to hell in a handbasket; the keyboard quality on my Thinkpads beats the HP's by lightyears, even the older OmniBook and Presario had better keyboards than my HP ze5170.

Well, it sure is nice to hear positive experiences from long time Thinkpad users!

I'm only on my 2nd Thinkpad (both T60's) and actually, I don't know much here who uses Thinkpads. Is it only here but most of my friends don't understand the concept of a work computer and think that Thinkpads are overpriced. They'd rather have a Macbook Pro or a multimedia notebook with all the bells n whistles usually.

But based on my experience from Acer, Toshiba, HP, Panasonic, Sony, etc, things start falling apart right after a year (way less than a yr in the case of my HP DV1000). I guess that's why the manufacturer probably guaranties their laptops for 1 year only. Because of it, I usually buy a new laptop almost every year and its getting expensive!

I hope my Thinkpads will not disappoint. Although it lacks some "cool" features I've had with my older laptops (glossy screen, card reader, firewire, good speakers, etc), my general impression is that it looks tough and will last.

Although I agree that Thinkpads have a track record of aging much better than the majority of laptops, I will say that my R31 has not aged as well as I would've liked. My R31 is about 3 years old now, with its screen creaking when I close the lid, the palmrest flexing, and the keyboard flexing around the Fn button. I've read on Wikipedia that the R31 wasn't manufactured by IBM in-house, but instead outsourced to Acer, so this might explain the problems.

Even so, when comparing my R31 to other notebooks of its time period, it still has much more robust and superior construction. For example, I've seen many a Dell Inspiron (from 2002-2003) with screens that flop (or even worse, have detached). Indeed, I've observed in my travels that most laptops in use today that are 3-5 years old are Thinkpads. I occasionally see an old Dell Latitude, Apple Titanium PowerBook, or Compaq Evo, but usually those seem to be in pretty bad shape, while the Thinkpads look almost brand new.

As such, I had considered buying a Dell Latitude D620, HP/Compaq nc6340, or Asus W3J, but settled on the T60 because Thinkpads simply have a record of being extremely durable (although the widescreens on those other notebooks tempted me, especially the W3J).

Finally, jagged- although it would be nice to have firewire and good speakers, Thinkpads have unique features that other laptops just don't have. For example, I would argue that no one comes close to the Thinkpad in keyboard usability, as the Thinkpad keyboard has just the right response rate and key depth travel. In addition, the ThinkLight is a priceless addition when you're trying to work on a dark flight and network connectivity options/security options are unparalled (my T60 can connect to pretty much any network with its EV-DO card, 802.11 a/b/g card, Gigabit ethernet connection, modem, infrared, and Bluetooth).

I will say though that some of the "cooler" features have disappeared from Thinkpads. I remember when IBM made the T2x series that they sold multiple quirky modular devices to fit the Ultrabay and the Ultraport. The ones that stand out in my mind are the Ultraport webcam, the keypad for the Ultrabay (I really wish they still made this one), and the WorkPad c500 (IBM equivalent of Palm V5) cradle for the Ultrabay (so that you didn't have to bring a separate cradle on your business trip).

I can't say for sure because I wasn't a ThinkPad devote in the days of the T2x, but I'm pretty sure that this model pre-dated USB ports. In the absence of a USB port, one would need a high-speed connector (usually parallel) and external power supply for the options you listed (except the keypad). Now that devices can connect at high speed and derive power from USB, the need for those add-ons has diminished.

-darren

darrenf wrote:I can't say for sure because I wasn't a ThinkPad devote in the days of the T2x, but I'm pretty sure that this model pre-dated USB ports.

The 600 and 770 series had USB ports, both of which predated the T2X series machines by several years.

Only USB1.1, but still very useful at the time.

Regards,

James

I just want to add that I got a R50e almost exactly a year ago. The hinges were stiff at first, but after a week of use they loosened up. I was afraid that they might get looser and looser as time passes (partly because it is an "e" model), but now a year later, they were exactly the same as a year ago.

Unfortunately, the keyboards of my ThinkPads don't hold up so well. I do a lot of typing, and my keys are all shiny. I remember a long long time ago when I used Toshibas (before IBM was in the notebook market) my keyboards always looked new. Maybe it's the color of the plastic?

A friend at work has a 600E that he uses daily. He curses it for working so well and not breaking, and thus no excuse for buying a new notebook.

My 2 cents.

We have been purchasing thinkpads since back in the X600 days. I can say on average we get 5 years of service out of these laptops.

Best part of thinkpads is the build quality! They age very well. Everything thinkpad I have still works like brand new and always fires up. Top quality components (resisters, capacitors, power supplies, etc.)

Ask the guys in the International Space Station how their A31p thinkpads are doing. They have 12 or so up there running the command and control systems using Linux!

I still have an IBM PS/2 Model 80 hanging around that runs Novell 3.12 - still fires up after 14 years. Can you say 320 mb ESDI disk drives?

The only thing I don't like about thinkpads is the way it all seems to be snap together plastic with screws here and there.
You'll never beat Aluminium exteriors (a la Panasonic Toughbook), but as far as internals go, yes IBM just pone.

;p

Some of HPs newer laptops have been "good"... but I wish to god HP/Compaq would stop making their own motherboards and just buy them from other companies.

I have a HP Desktop, and when I bought it it came with a customized installation of Windows, then I install Windows from another disc at a later date, and low and behold, the normal version ran better than the actual custom version.

Only problem I've had on a thinkpad was my T22's backlight exploding and chipping up the reflector sheet behind the screen.

Toughbooks are good; yet as far as operation go, you have to watch out for the weakest component in any system. My friend had a Toughbook and it had gone through hell, the chassis held up as did the keyboard, but the screen had some issues as well as some of the internals. If one makes a laptop, it can't just be a hardshell with nothing protecting the internals as well. That is like putting an egg in a hard steel case then dropping it from a building hoping the egg will survive.