T60P Model 2700 93U - Clear up misconceptions

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movado · #1 Post by **movado** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:09 pm

I finally recieved my T60P and have used it for over a week. I have also followed all of the forum discussions on the T60 models and now want to give first hand expereince and clear up misconceptions I have read on this web site.

1. Fan noise. It is hardly noticeable. Those that have complained about it must only use it in solitary confinemement.

2. Intel 3945 card. Works flawlessy in combination with my Linksys WRT54GS router and Apple Airport Express with excellent signal strength. Again those that have complained must be trying to pick up signal strength through their 24" cement block cell.

3. 15" TFT screen. Very vibrant screen. Given my deteriorating eyesight - I have adjusted it to 1024 x 768 resolution and installed MS Clear type. Just the right balance of screen real estate and image clarity.

4. Weight. The whole discussion of the 1/2 pound difference between the the 14.1' model and 15" is totally exagerated.

5. Keyboard. I must have lucked out and got the perfect keyboard. All the debate over the keyboard manufacturers is no longer an issue for me.

6. 2 x 1 Gig RAM - I have cranked up the number of applications running and have yet to experience blue screen crashes.

7. Pixels - not one dead poxel. I could not believe the thread on this discussion point. It made it sound that every other person had a defefective TFT screen. I should have known that it did not have any statistical validity - because only the ones with the bad luck would take the time to complain on a discussion board.

8. Price - yes it is a pricey model when you buy the best of the best. For those in Canada that want to save 15% off the retail price - order through Visa Perks.

Now for my credentials. I have been a long term user of the T models for the past 10+ years. I needed to bring to a close all the threads that I have read - because all the b/s had me rethinking whether I made the wrong decision in ordering this model. Now I now for usre I made the right decision.

T20 (256 ram, 20 gig HD)
T22 (512 ram, 30 gig HD)
T42 (1 gig ram, 40 gig HD)
T43P (2 gig Ram, 60 gig 5200 rpm HD)
T60P (2 gig Ram, 100 gig 7200 rpm HD)

I cannot imagine people comparing the performance of the T60 model to any previous model I have ever owned. This beats them all hands done.

Have any questions - just ask. I am here to clear up misconceptions and frutless debates I have read here for the past 2 months while I waited for mine to be delivered and at times questioned if I amde the right decision.

own6volvos · #2 Post by **own6volvos** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:19 pm

movado wrote:
2. Intel 3945 card. Works flawlessy in combination with my Linksys WRT54GS router and Apple Airport Express with excellent signal strength. Again those that have complained must be trying to pick up signal strength through their 24" cement block cell.

That same card in the T60 I had for 2 weeks couldnt get better than 60% to a access point in the next bedroom, through 1 interior wall, that was about 10-15 feet away. At school with access points everywhere the best it go was maybe 70-75% and liked to drop out.

Oddly enough, Broadcom and Atheros card never had these issues.

christopher_wolf · #3 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:37 pm

own6volvos wrote:
movado wrote:
2. Intel 3945 card. Works flawlessy in combination with my Linksys WRT54GS router and Apple Airport Express with excellent signal strength. Again those that have complained must be trying to pick up signal strength through their 24" cement block cell.
That same card in the T60 I had for 2 weeks couldnt get better than 60% to a access point in the next bedroom, through 1 interior wall, that was about 10-15 feet away. At school with access points everywhere the best it go was maybe 70-75% and liked to drop out.

Oddly enough, Broadcom and Atheros card never had these issues.

It is pretty much impossible to say whether one card or the other will work better in a given situation; they each have different internals and report info in a slightly different way. In addition, each user operates in a different environment and perfect variable or even acceptable variable control is nigh unto impossible.

Movado; glad you enjoy your T60.

#4 Post by **Kyocera** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:41 pm

movado wrote from sing sing:
2. Intel 3945 card. Works flawlessy in combination with my Linksys WRT54GS router and Apple Airport Express with excellent signal strength. Again those that have complained must be trying to pick up signal strength through their 24" cement block cell.

Lenovo sent me another intel 3945 card today, installed it and still can't use the wardens access point like I could with the t42 and t30!

Seriously though same result with the new card, i wanted atheros they said I had to take what it shipped with, thems the rules.

#5 Post by **RonS** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:17 pm

Movado - your experience with the T60 line largely parallels mine, but I don't think it's fair to label the problems some people experience as "misconceptions."

You received a typical T60 - which is to say, a fantastic machine. But for others, the fan noice that a few machines have is real, the blue-screen problem from add-on memory is reproducable, and the wireless glitches are, for some, frusterating. I've never seen a dead pixel on a Thinkpad, but I'm sure they exist nevertheless. Yes, these problems are few and far between, but those who have them have them 100%.

Perhaps this thread should be named "T60P model 2007 93U - Another perfect Thinkpad" rather than "Clear up misconceptions."

own6volvos · #6 Post by **own6volvos** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:05 am

RonS wrote:Movado - your experience with the T60 line largely parallels mine, but I don't think it's fair to label the problems some people experience as "misconceptions."

You received a typical T60 - which is to say, a fantastic machine. But for others, the fan noice that a few machines have is real, the blue-screen problem from add-on memory is reproducable, and the wireless glitches are, for some, frusterating. I've never seen a dead pixel on a Thinkpad, but I'm sure they exist nevertheless. Yes, these problems are few and far between, but those who have them have them 100%.

Perhaps this thread should be named "T60P model 2007 93U - Another perfect Thinkpad" rather than "Clear up misconceptions."

Maybe mine was a cursed lemon? It got returned about 2 weeks after for quite a few problems.

1. Left display hinge loose and would squeak and wobble when you opened the screen.

2. Fan started to make contact with the plastic shell of the case and would grind when it would cycle between "off" and "on"

3. That horrible Intel reception.

4. The kicker that broke the camels back was a backlight leakage blotch that came out about 2" from the bottom left corner (one with the loose hinge) one night after it had been left on my desk.

I am hoping that 3-4 months have honed out the assembly lines and the T60P I just ordered turns out to be perfect.

christopher_wolf · #7 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:22 am

RonS has a good point; yet I think there is a feeling that some people tend to blow things far out of proportion simply for the sake of doing so and looking important and listening to themselves complain about it.

Unfortuanately, there are some who do that and make classing different issues objectively on any given system more difficult for all and make it *very* difficult on the other users who actually do have valid issues but aren't heard or are treated poorly for all the noise the overblown and contentious ones generate. It isn't fair on either the people who are deciding how to spend their hard-earned money nor is it fair to those who bought T60s and are seeking guidance.

irfan · #8 Post by **irfan** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:14 am

I like my ugly looking black brick. Yes, the screen is not as good as I wanted. and yes, lenovo should have tested their software throughly before they have released it. Still, I like this black brick. It is built for what I am looking for: WORK!!!

scillyisles · #9 Post by **scillyisles** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:42 am

I have a T60P 2007-93G with 2Gb ram which I'm currently moving onto. In general, it is a well built machine with all the "Thinkpad" qualities that I have grown accustomed to.
However in one area it does not appear as good as my other Thinkpads and that is wireless reception. In the same conditions where my T41p and T42p perform flawlessly with good signal strength, the T60P either struggles or fails to get a connection. Both my T41p and T42p have the IBM 11a/b/g/ wireless card whereas the T6O uses the Intel card.

movado · #10 Post by **movado** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:11 am

I would add that our company has been rolling out entry level T60's for my professional staff. I have checked each one out to date (10) so far and not one dead pixel screen.

I have also checked out the signal strengths in open areas as they will be needed for setting up local area networks outside of the office. All 80% + at distances up to 40' using Airport Express.

These are facts based on numbers.

One thing I learned from this site is that Thinkpad Access Connections and Windows XP Wireless Network Connection do NOT get along and conflict. This causes signal drop off. Solution is to this is to go to Control Panel/Administrative Tools/Services/Wireless Zero Configuration and stop it runiing and set it "manual". This disables Windows Wireless Connection and allows Thinkpad Access Connection to operate freely.

P.S. I chose to be different and purchase my own T60P 2007 model and use it for home and work. I keep them for 1-2 years and then pass them onto my kids. I have given my T42 to my daughter in University and my T43p to ms son also attending University this Fall. No bias - - just FIFO method of allocation. I still use my T22 at home and have it connected to Airport Express and use it play Itunes off the stereo.

#11 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:28 pm

I have also checked out the signal strengths in open areas as they will be needed for setting up local area networks outside of the office. All 80% + at distances up to 40' using Airport Express.

These are facts based on numbers.

One thing I learned from this site is that Thinkpad Access Connections and Windows XP Wireless Network Connection do NOT get along and conflict. This causes signal drop off. Solution is to this is to go to Control Panel/Administrative Tools/Services/Wireless Zero Configuration and stop it runiing and set it "manual". This disables Windows Wireless Connection and allows Thinkpad Access Connection to operate freely.

It's great that the wireless is working for you and your company, I wish it was the same for me, I'm on my second intel card and it still won't connect as good at the cards in my t42 and t30, that is a fact based on my numbers, there are others who have had problems too. I believe I will get this worked out eventually, or switch to the verizon deal.

I have a brand new intel 3945 intel card that I would like to send to you and put in your machine to see if it works as well as the one yours shipped with, it took me about 20 minutes to switch them out last night, got the time? I'll pay shipping both ways obviously.

darrenf · #12 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:15 pm

movado,

Whew! Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions!

Bill, go ahead and close down the T60 forum. Apparently there's no longer a need for it.

-darren

christopher_wolf · #13 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:58 pm

darrenf wrote:movado,

Whew! Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions!

Bill, go ahead and close down the T60 forum. Apparently there's no longer a need for it.

-darren

Yup, it can be replaced with the Needlessly Obvious Sarcasm of the Moment Forum.

darrenf · #14 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:01 pm

christopher_wolf wrote:Yup, it can be replaced with the Needlessly Obvious Sarcasm of the Moment Forum.

I try to do my part.

-darren

christopher_wolf · #15 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:17 pm

darrenf wrote:
christopher_wolf wrote:Yup, it can be replaced with the Needlessly Obvious Sarcasm of the Moment Forum.
I try to do my part.

-darren

And that's the whole idea

#16 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:40 pm

Well this cleared up my misconceptions:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=26671

movado:

I have a T43p with intel 2200BG card. I now have a T60 with the 3945 card and the signal strrenght originating from airport express is down 50%.

What is wrong with the 3945 cards???

darrenf · #17 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:52 pm

Kyocera,

ROFLMAO!

-darren

[We need more emoticons, BTW. This would be a great place for the smiley that is rolling back and forth while laughing. The standard lol doesn't do it justice.]

#18 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:12 pm

movado wrote?:
I finally recieved my T60P and have used it for over a week. I have also followed all of the forum discussions on the T60 models and now want to give first hand expereince and clear up misconceptions I have read on this web site:
Quote:
I have a T43p with intel 2200BG card. I now have a T60 with the 3945 card and the signal strrenght originating from airport express is down 50%.
What is wrong with the 3945 cards???

Quote:
Intel 3945 card. Works flawlessy. in combination with my Linksys WRT54GS router and Apple Airport Express with excellent signal strength. Again those that have complained must be trying to pick up signal strength through their 24" cement block cell.
These are facts based on numbers.

I agree/disagree with you a lot/none, on this important/inconsequentianal issue.

movado · #19 Post by **movado** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:48 pm

eh Mr. Kyocera - yeh you.

It is obvious that you did not pick up on the answers that I got back. This included setting the zero wireless configuration off and to manual.

What's your problem in having to post this quote here? You seemed to miss the point under my list of misconceptions that setting the zero wireless configuration off - which I picked up in that thread actually fixed my problem.

You have other quotes of mine to pick out?

#20 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:10 pm

Yes mr. movado?

Initially you stated that it is a misconception that others on this forum are getting poor performance from the intel 3945. From this i assumed you were saying it can't be a problem because your t60 is not having such problems. And I just happend to be reading back and stumbled on a post by you with that very problem, imagine my surprise

movado · #21 Post by **movado** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:22 pm

The fact is that I actually learned something from this site that our own IT people could not figure out. Having both XP and Access Connections working results in conflict poor signal strength or none.

So what was originally a misconception that the cards are defective can become reality if people start to believ in it because there is no other answer.

I found my answer and that is all that matters in the end.

... and no I do not have time to swap my card for yours.

P.S. the last thing I expect from any moderator on this site is to ridicule someone that is genuinely expressing their experience with their producta taking the tiem to share in their experience. I couold have just read the threads like most - but I chose to participate.

Ridicule and saracasm turns me off and leads to non-participation. Maybe it is time to shut doen the forum and moving on. I am.

#22 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:34 pm

Your original list of misconceptions was what turned me off to start with, "solitary confinement", "cell block", "greatly exaggerated", and "I am here to clear up misconceptions and frutless debates I have read here for the past 2 months", all your words not mine. It's hard to tell wether you were appreciative of the help you got or not.

darrenf · #23 Post by **darrenf** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:35 pm

movado wrote:Ridicule and saracasm turns me off and leads to non-participation.

The reason that you're getting feedback that is, admittedly, harsh for this forum is that your original post in this thread was nothing but ridicule of others who are having trouble with their ThinkPads.

Had you shared your pleasure with your ThinkPad we would have all patted you on the back. Instead you belittled the users that come to this forum seeking assistance.

The irony that you yourself are one of those users is beyond funny.

-darren

codek · #24 Post by **codek** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:57 pm

I just got a t60p fully loaded and i must say the worst build quality ever. I went through 4 t60 all kinds to from the 1953 to the 2623's and now this. and there is a huge hump in the middle of my laptop and the flex is definitely a backbreaker I can press the plastic where my start button is and it goes down about 3mm and there is a noticeable hump on my keyboard. I don't know about ibm's anymore. I've had a couple of dell's xps laptops and they were perfect. I just dropped 2600 on this and it's going back. I love the look and the build quality of thinkpads, I will probably go with a 2623d6u and cross my fingers.

darrenf · #25 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:05 am

codec, that sounds horrible!

Can I ask why you sent the first three units back? Did they have problems as well?

-darren

codek · #26 Post by **codek** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:20 am

darrenf wrote:codec, that sounds horrible!

Can I ask why you sent the first three units back? Did they have problems as well?

-darren

1953d6u -best keyboard of the bunch.. nothing wrong just didn't know that you can get a dedicated graphics

2623d6u- pretty bad. computer won't power up. magically after two hours of charging it, it started working. keyboard sucked.

200784U- hump in keyboard and next to power button. flex not only on keyboard but next to power button. you couldn't find a worse flex on the worst dell.

I just paid $2630 for this comp with complete warranty. It's definitely going back. I'm scared to buy another one. I love the style and the usual supposed build quality of the thinkpads and might go with a 2623d6u.

darrenf · #27 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:55 pm

I just noticed that the cosmetic cover between the power and ThinkVantage buttons is loose on mine too. It looks like it needs to be glued down to keep it tight. I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't poked at it. I might crack it open tonight and see how it's attached. No flex in my keyboard, though (Alps on a 2007-83U).

Have you taken the keyboard out to see whether reinstalling it would fix the hump?

If you have the patience to get it taken, could you post a pic of the problem so that other users can compare it to their keyboards?

-darren

darrenf · #28 Post by **darrenf** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:58 pm

One other thought -- you might want to get the on-site warranty. The service rocks. They bring out whatever parts you say are broken, change them on the spot and you're set. Presumably they bring a replacement unit if the problem is too severe.

I've called for two repairs and in both cases the service rep showed up the next morning with parts in hand and did a fantastic job of installation. The repairs weren't minor either -- one was a mainboard replacement and the other was replacement of the bottom of the case and battery (due to broken battery rails).

I've been very pleased and presonally I would rather make the investment in the on-site just to avoid sending units back and forth waiting on Lenovo to build new ones.

-darren

christopher_wolf · #29 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:28 pm

darrenf wrote:Kyocera,

ROFLMAO!

-darren

[We need more emoticons, BTW. This would be a great place for the smiley that is rolling back and forth while laughing. The standard lol doesn't do it justice.]

Awww, you haven't found the extended simley set yet?

[img=http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/8963/362uv.gif]

christopher_wolf · #30 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:29 pm

darrenf wrote:Kyocera,

ROFLMAO!

-darren

[We need more emoticons, BTW. This would be a great place for the smiley that is rolling back and forth while laughing. The standard lol doesn't do it justice.]

Awww, you haven't found the extended simley set yet?

I am shocked

Although I have to admit, different smilies would be interesting now wouldn't they? I really like the "drinking buddies" one we have

These smilies can be really fun!

Really

T60P Model 2700 93U - Clear up misconceptions

T60P Model 2700 93U - Clear up misconceptions

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