Thinkpads Forum

Why no one talks about newly released T60ps featuring T2700? It's because T7600 is just round the corner?

I believe that the T2700 is just a 2.33MHz processor. The T7600 is a 64-bit version of that chip, right?

Personally, whenever I buy a new piece of equipment - notebook, cellphone, car, etc - I know that within months it will no longer be the latest model.
And, since I don't upgrade all my gear every few months, I don't waste time looking at what I could have if I did. That would just be frustrating.
So, I spend my time trying to get the best out of what I've got. It seems to me that that's what this forum is all about.

Just my 2 cents.

Also, processor compute performance isn't the bottleneck in most applications right now. The memory system and disk are usually what are slowing your apps down. So another 300MHz in CPU frequency won't make a noticeable difference to most people.

Out of interest, are the processors on the T60's upgradeable? e.g. will I be able to drop a T2700 into my T60p which currently has a T2600?

from what I have read here, yes.

Anthony S wrote:Personally, whenever I buy a new piece of equipment - notebook, cellphone, car, etc - I know that within months it will no longer be the latest model.
And, since I don't upgrade all my gear every few months, I don't waste time looking at what I could have if I did. That would just be frustrating.
So, I spend my time trying to get the best out of what I've got. It seems to me that that's what this forum is all about.

Just my 2 cents.

Brilliant! ...

"Just my 2 cents" yes, but practicing the concept above ...Priceless!
Thanks for bringing some common sense and practicality to the party...

I thought the advantage of new merom based CPU ( i.e. T7XXX series ) is not only speed, but also using about 20% less battery, and a lot less heat.

I for one am looking forward to see the new processor available to T60 or X60 series of thinkpad.

foodle wrote:Also, processor compute performance isn't the bottleneck in most applications right now. The memory system and disk are usually what are slowing your apps down. So another 300MHz in CPU frequency won't make a noticeable difference to most people.

Foodle, you're exactly right.

Tony Chan wrote:I thought the advantage of new merom based CPU ( i.e. T7XXX series ) is not only speed, but also using about 20% less battery, and a lot less heat.

I for one am looking forward to see the new processor available to T60 or X60 series of thinkpad.

Yes, you are correct. There is more to Merom than just the number, guys. Better architechure, less power. It will perform better than Yonah (the current Core Duo chips) by as much as 20% while consuming less battery power and having twice the cache (4mb) onboard.

Merom (core 2 duo mobile) will drop right into a T60, provided BIOS support which I can definatly see happening of the T40 and T20 generation of notebooks has anything to say about it - all boards that are pin compatable have the same BIOS, so they have the same CPU support.

Merom will officially be in the T61 though. However, just like you could drop a Dothan in a T40/1, You will most likely be able to drop a Merom into a T60.

Foodle, you're exactly right.

Not really... Take 300mhz away from someone encoding Video and listen to them complain... There will always be someone who uses the power of their chips, just becuase most people dont doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

Foodle, Id love to see a benchmark where the memory subsystem slows things down to the point where it bottlenecks the processor. Disk subsystem, absolutly. Memory subsystem... not so much. Especially with NGMA. Netburst was MUCH more of a bandwidth hog than NGMA is.

Maybe if were lucky the T61 BIOS will work in the T60, and we can rid ourselves of all of the problems in the current BIOS'es.

Foodle, you're exactly right.

Not really... Take 300mhz away from someone encoding Video and listen to them complain... There will always be someone who uses the power of their chips, just becuase most people dont doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

Foodle said that on "most applications" the processor isn't the bottleneck. I know of exactly one person who actually does video editing on a PC, and I know many dozens who use primarily Word, PowerPoint, Internet Explorer, etc.

I see many people who buy 3GHz systems just to surf the web, thinking that they'll be able to surf faster. Users are, to a large extent, addicted to megahertz.

RonS wrote:

Not really... Take 300mhz away from someone encoding Video and listen to them complain... There will always be someone who uses the power of their chips, just becuase most people dont doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

Foodle said that on "most applications" the processor isn't the bottleneck. I know of exactly one person who actually does video editing on a PC, and I know many dozens who use primarily Word, PowerPoint, Internet Explorer, etc.

I see many people who buy 3GHz systems just to surf the web, thinking that they'll be able to surf faster. Users are, to a large extent, addicted to megahertz.

Gigahertz!!!

My mother thinks a faster computer will help her play her internet Java games faster. Laughably, this was the case with her G4 Powerbook. It actually didnt play Java or Flash at intended speed in Safari or Firefox. Got her a Toshiba which is slow, but faster than the Mac.

RonS wrote:Users are, to a large extent, addicted to megahertz.

I agree.

This is in large part due to the campaign started years ago to build the Intel Brand. By creating the slogan based TV & Print adds "Intel Pentium Processors", followed by "Intel Inside", Intel created a level of awareness (in the previously uninitiated public eye) around their processors resulting in the related demand that followed. Fueled by a segment of the business community that actually "needed" processing power vs. the everday person that wanted the "fastest" and latest.

Suddenly just like most guys can relate to the HP numbers for cars, Intel programmed the public to believe that the speed of the computer was enhanced by simply going to a faster "Intel Pentium" processor.

This is "biggerbetterfastersmoother" more... more... more...America...

Therefore we want the fastest blazing chips that Intel can build, whether we need them or not...

It's an interesting debate. Depends on the use of the laptop. Remember the International space station uses more than a few A31p thinkpads to run the station's control system using Linux. Laptops can make great computer systems for many things - not just a great platform to run java based solitare!

my five cents! (inflation). :p

Can't remember where but I read from somewhere that there will be some Merom T60 ?? That is, with the current chipset, not with the new Santa Rosa chipset.

Can anybody confirm this?

Tony Chan wrote:Can't remember where but I read from somewhere that there will be some Merom T60 ?? That is, with the current chipset, not with the new Santa Rosa chipset.

Can anybody confirm this?

Santa Rosa - is not a chipset but the next generation Centrino Platform

Merom featured T Series - It may even be called T61/T61p

Current Chipset - Yes, merom will use current Mobile Intel 945PM or 945GM Express Chipset until it gets refreshed in mid '07 and become part of Santa Rosa platform.

lithium726 wrote: Not really... Take 300mhz away from someone encoding Video and listen to them complain... There will always be someone who uses the power of their chips, just becuase most people dont doesnt mean everyone doesnt.

Foodle, Id love to see a benchmark where the memory subsystem slows things down to the point where it bottlenecks the processor. Disk subsystem, absolutly. Memory subsystem... not so much. Especially with NGMA. Netburst was MUCH more of a bandwidth hog than NGMA is.

First off, I said most applications, not all. There are always apps with enough parallelism and simple memory access patterns ammenable to prefetching that they will bottleneck on the processor core compute frequency.

Second, there are tons of apps where the memory subsystem bottlenecks the app performance. Take a look at any recent ISCA or ASPLOS and you'll see plenty of benchmarks that choke on the memory subsystem. Ask any architect or preformance-critical app programmer whether they'd prefer 10% better core processor compute performance or 10% lower memory latency, and most will go for the faster memory.

Third, when I say "memory system" that also includes the processor memory cache hierarchy. The actual utilization of the functional units in most apps is usually pretty small.

a31pguy wrote:Remember the International space station uses more than a few A31p thinkpads to run the station's control system ...

And remember that 25 years ago the first Space Shuttle crew used Hewlet-Packard HP41-C pocket calculators for many routine navigation and control functions. Ten years earlier, Apollo astronauts had used slide rules.

Remember that? The good old days - no noisy fans, no dead pixels, no BIOS rollbacks - no Internet forum, either. But, guess who made the main control computers.

longfellow wrote:

Tony Chan wrote:Can't remember where but I read from somewhere that there will be some Merom T60 ?? That is, with the current chipset, not with the new Santa Rosa chipset.

Can anybody confirm this?

Santa Rosa - is not a chipset but the next generation Centrino Platform

Merom featured T Series - It may even be called T61/T61p

Current Chipset - Yes, merom will use current Mobile Intel 945PM or 945GM Express Chipset until it gets refreshed in mid '07 and become part of Santa Rosa platform.

Awsome, so if we can afford it in the future, we can hopefully drop this processor in our current centrino platforms.

Oh yeah, lets not forget a BIOS update from Lenovo that allows us to use this.