Advanced Dock PCIe x1 Performance vs x16

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xaveon · #1 Post by **xaveon** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:48 am

Hey Guys,

I need your help. I know that the advanced dock uses an x1 PCIe slot and a converter to x16. I am trying to hook up two 30" Apple Cinema Display to the Advance Dock. According to Apple, the ATI X1900 XT will be able to support dual 30" Cinema Display. I'm wondering if this adaptation from x16 to x1 will still allow the ATI X1900 XT to support the dual Cinema Display. I don't play games so I don't really care about 3D performance, I just need it to power two 30" Cinema Displays. Any advice or hypothesis are welcomed. Thanks in advance!

jjesusfreak01 · #2 Post by **jjesusfreak01** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:04 am

xaveon wrote:Hey Guys,

I need your help. I know that the advanced dock uses an x1 PCIe slot and a converter to x16. I am trying to hook up two 30" Apple Cinema Display to the Advance Dock. According to Apple, the ATI X1900 XT will be able to support dual 30" Cinema Display. I'm wondering if this adaptation from x16 to x1 will still allow the ATI X1900 XT to support the dual Cinema Display. I don't play games so I don't really care about 3D performance, I just need it to power two 30" Cinema Displays. Any advice or hypothesis are welcomed. Thanks in advance!

Hmm, well, it doesnt have an x16 to 1x converter, as much as it really just runs 1x. All this means is that graphics thoroughput between the card and the system will be lower than optimal, but it doesnt change any features of the actual graphics card. It should still be able to support two screens very easily, and at good framerates as long as you arent gaming. That said, remember an x1900XT wont come close to fitting in the slot on your dock, you will need an extender cable, and an external power supply for the card is recommended (though for your uses may not be required).

#3 Post by **RonS** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:04 am

In order to drive those displays, you need to have a Dual-link DVI. If you can find an ATI x1900 XT board that fits in the Advanced Dock's expansion bay (there's the real trick), then you're good to go.

Whether it's running x1 or x16 doesn't matter a bit except for performance.

xaveon · #4 Post by **xaveon** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:31 pm

Thanks guys, I'm probably going to have to go with the adapter and leaving the card outside of the advance dock case. Do you guys know what kind of power supply I would need? Is there an external power supply that will power the card?

xaveon · #5 Post by **xaveon** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:33 pm

Also, is the DVI port on the advanced dock a dual link or single link?

jjesusfreak01 · #6 Post by **jjesusfreak01** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:32 pm

xaveon wrote:Also, is the DVI port on the advanced dock a dual link or single link?

Does it matter, the X1900XT usually has two dual link ports on it? Anyways, I think its only single link, because the docs state that it only supports up to SXGA (1280x1024) resolution.

Edit: Seems I was looking at the wrong docs. Dock port is Dual Link.

snife · #7 Post by **snife** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:46 pm

jjesusfreak01 wrote:
xaveon wrote:Also, is the DVI port on the advanced dock a dual link or single link?
Does it matter, the X1900XT usually has two dual link ports on it? Anyways, I think its only single link, because the docs state that it only supports up to SXGA (1280x1024) resolution.

The T60 dock is dual link and supports upto QXGA, agree that it shouldn't really matter in this context though

jjesusfreak01 · #8 Post by **jjesusfreak01** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 3:56 pm

snife wrote:
jjesusfreak01 wrote:Does it matter, the X1900XT usually has two dual link ports on it? Anyways, I think its only single link, because the docs state that it only supports up to SXGA (1280x1024) resolution.
The T60 dock is dual link and supports upto QXGA, agree that it shouldn't really matter in this context though

Really, thats interesting, since I got that figure off of the Lenovo website. Must have been older docs.

snife · #9 Post by **snife** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:13 pm

jjesusfreak01 wrote:
snife wrote: The T60 dock is dual link and supports upto QXGA, agree that it shouldn't really matter in this context though
Really, thats interesting, since I got that figure off of the Lenovo website. Must have been older docs.

It is the T4* dock which only supported upto SXGA, i know the DVI information is not great on the ThinkPad documents though

xaveon · #10 Post by **xaveon** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:59 pm

Well I just wanted to see if I had the option for triple 30" Cinema Displays. So I guess I do.

xaveon · #11 Post by **xaveon** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:01 pm

Also, I think I read somewhere on this forum that people were having problems with "non standard" resolution (as in widescreen). Do you guys have any problems with widescreen monitors on the T60?

#12 Post by **RonS** » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:27 pm

Guys - please post link to the docs that say the Advanced Dock's DVI is dual-link. My research, and my experience (I tried it) say that it's single link, capable of 1920x1200 maximum physical resolution.

You may see specifications saying that the T60 and/or the Advanced Dock is capable of resolutions up to 2560x1600, but realize that this is virtual resolution. The 2560x1600 window will be a scrolling frame inside a screen with a lower physical resolution. The ATI video chip supports the high resolution, but the DVI port does not.

This video card may fit in in the Advanced Dock and support dual-link DVI (and the 30" monitors):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102516

snife · #13 Post by **snife** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:52 am

RonS wrote:Guys - please post link to the docs that say the Advanced Dock's DVI is dual-link. My research, and my experience (I tried it) say that it's single link, capable of 1920x1200 maximum physical resolution.

You may see specifications saying that the T60 and/or the Advanced Dock is capable of resolutions up to 2560x1600, but realize that this is virtual resolution. The 2560x1600 window will be a scrolling frame inside a screen with a lower physical resolution. The ATI video chip supports the high resolution, but the DVI port does not.

As I say the documentation on the DVI capability is pretty rotten so there is nothing I can refer you to that states this but all the design specifications I have seen in the past state that it is dual link/channel so I am almost certain it should be.

I've tested it at UXGA with 32 bit colour depth which I thought required dual channel but I do not have access to higher resolution to test.

I had thought they added support for the standard HDTV widescreen resolutions in the video driver, but if I remember correctly, you can get the ATI drivers to give the option of almost any resolution by making changes in the registry to the sections where it stores the resolution options

#14 Post by **RonS** » Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:16 pm

HDTV resolutions (1920x1080 is the highest) do not require Dual-link DVI. Neither does UXGA (1600x1200).

Single-link DVI data rates top out at 165MHz. Here's how to tell if a given resolution requires dual-link DVI: multiply horizontal resolution by vertical resolution by refresh rate (usually 60Hz) and divide by a million. If the result is greater than 165, you need dual-link DVI for that resolution.

For example, 1920*1080*60 = 124.4 MHz, which is well within the 165MHz limit on single-link DVI.

2560*1600*60 = 245.8 MHz, which requires dual-link DVI.

Regarding widescreen monitors, you should have no problems running a widescreen monitor (except the 30") from the Advanced Dock's DVI. But you might have problems running the screens in their native resolution via the analog VGA connector. Whenever possible, you should run DVI-capable monitors from the DVI connector and at the screen's native resolution -- this gives you the best quality image.

Running two 30" monitors (in digital mode) from the Advanced Dock should be fairly straightforward, assuming you can find a video card that fits in the dock. The one I mentioned earlier in this thread (ATI 100-505103) might do the trick. I just pulled up a picture of that card on my screen, measured it, and compared the proportions to a card that I know fits in the Advanced Dock. It looks like it will work.

I can think of only two ways to get three (or four, just as easy) 30" monitors to work off of the T60:

1. Get an NVidia Quadro FX 4500 x2 card and run it physically outside the dock with an extension cable. You will have to supply it auxillary power. It supports four simultaneous dual-link DVI displays. I have yet to see one of these cards delivered.

2. Use the ATI card I mentioned above to get two of the 30" screens working, and use MaxiVista and a secondary computer to drive the third (or more) 30" display. Rather than having a video card running outside the dock, you will have a separate computer hosting a video card that drives the third 30" monitor. Then, MaxiVista lets you extend your desktop to the screen(s) of the other computer(s) over a network connection. This solution is suprisingly fast. For everyday tasks, you will hardly know that the screen is running over a LAN.

I've spend some time using triple-wide and quad-wide 30" Dell monitors. I got tired of it. The monitors were simply too big. To see them all, you have to push them back away from you. Once you do that, what's the point of having bigger screens? For me, running three 24" Dell 2405 monitors off of the dock is just perfect. I use the built-in DVI for the first (primary) monitor, and then a 7600GS card to drive the other two, all in full digitial 1920x1200. The 2405FPW monitors also support lots of inputs including analog, component HD, SVideo, composite and they have PIP, lots of resolutions, etc. The Dell 30" monitors only support two resolutions with the solitary input being DVI.

Advanced Dock PCIe x1 Performance vs x16

Advanced Dock PCIe x1 Performance vs x16

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