T60p Vs. Macbook pro

[vvv]

I searched, and there was one older thread, back when the mbp was first released. So now that there is alittle more time on both machines, how do they stack up now. I just bought a X41, and I'm really excited for that, and I've had a x22 in the past, which I loved, but I can't help but be swayed by the apple, it's gorgous for one thing, and it can run both osx and windows, which seems pretty cool. They stack up pretty decently specs wise. I dono I'd just like to hear some thoughts from people who own both, or have used both, or anyone really.


Thanks

[BudC]

I have a 2007 76U T60 and thought long and hard about getting a MBP before I bought the Thinkpad.

I recently took another look at the MacBook Pros and they still have a heating problem. I looked at both the 15 and 17 inch versions just sitting there idling and they were amost too hot to touch. Besides, I much prefer the Flexview screen on my TP, not to mention my keyboard which blows away the one on the MBP.

The T60 also appears much more robust than the MBP.

Finally, I realized that I would be running the MBP in Windows mode almost all the time so why buy a Mac if there isn't any native software I care about.

I prefer Firefox, MSIE 7.0 and Netscape 8.1 to Safari.

I prefer Thunderbird and even MS Outlook Express to Apple Mail.

I find Adobe Photoshop Elements 4.0 more useful than the iPhoto on my wife's iMac.

The only thing wrong with my T60 is that it's a bit heavy for travel but otherwise, it's performed flawlessly.

People that want a Mac should buy an Intel iMac. It's a fantastic device. I bought one for my wife because it take so little space on her desk and because she only has to deal with Apple for all of her software. One source for all her updates.

It won't work for me because I find the available software too restrictive for my purposes.

[foodle]

I too strongly considered a Macbook Pro. But I chose a T60p over a MBP because:

- Battery. The MBP has only one battery option and the battery life is pretty poor (about 3 hours actual use). The T60p has 3 different batteries (9-cell, 6-cell, ultrabay) and better battery life. Sure you can always carry spare batteries, but it can be a pain (especially if they explode ). Right now I'm using the 6-cell and ultrabay and have plenty of battery life for day-to-day carrying around. On planes I use the 9-cell and ultrabay (plus a charged 6-cell in my bag).

- Screen. I'm not a huge fan of widescreen displays and the MBP's screen resolution is lower than that of the 15" T60p (MBP: 1440x900, T60p: 1600x1200).

- Wireless connectivity. The T60p gives me built-in EVDO/HSPDA. The MBP has an ExpressCard slot, but cards are just coming out for this form-factor. I'm not sure how much I trust those cards right now and the capability is not built-in.

- Expansion. The T60p has a PCMCIA slot and an ExpressCard slot. So it's compatible with exisiting peripherals and future-proofed. The MBP just has the ExpressCard slot and there are very few cards of this type currently on the market. This strikes me as one of those Apple design decisions that's too forward looking (like removal of floppy drives from all desktops a number of years ago when we still used/needed floppies).

- Form factor. I find the MBP a bit too wide for my tastes. It's an inch wider than the 15" T60p which I just feel is too wide. Also, the MBP keyboard is so recessed that I have to remove my watch to type on it, which is personally annoying.

- Heat. The MBP's can get pretty hot, while my T60p stays nice and cool. I can even work with it on my lap, unlike Apple notebooks .

- Software. There are a number of key apps (e.g. MS Office, Adobe Photoshop) that are still not Universal, so they have to run under Rosetta emulation. This will change in the future, but currently is a problem. Sure I could run Window on the MBP via BootCamp or use Parallels, but that seems like a clunky solution. This will resolve in time, but at the time when I needed to purchase a machine it was still a problem (and it still is currently).

However, there were some distinct advantages to the MBP, but they just didn't outweigh the disadvantages for me. Off the top of my head, I liked:

- OS X over WindowsXP (although Linux on the T60p is an option, or even back-alley OS X if you are daring)

- Dual link DVI. The MBP can drive a 30" LCD. The T60p would require me to get the Advanced Dock and an external PCI-E graphics card. Possible, but big. I actually prefer my laptop have a VGA port versus a DVI port, since most projectors I connect to have a VGA port, but don't necessarily have DVI.

- MagSafe power connector. It's only a matter of time before my young child or one of the cats trips/yanks on my power cable.

- Backlit keyboard over ThinkLight.

- Built-in iSight. Cute but not critical.

I'm sure there were more, but I can't think of them right now ... I'm considering getting a Macbook (no Pro) just to play around with, but I doubt it will end up my main work machine.

[thinktank]

I was comparing the T60 against the MacBook pro as well a few weeks ago and honestly came pretty close to buying the MacBook pro.

Ultimately, it is a question of priorities and what your needs are though I am fairly certain that both machines can adapt pretty well in any environment.

My issues with the MacBook that resulted in buying a 14" T60 were:

- the battery problems
- the keyboard layout
- hardware incompatibilities and problems under XP (keyboard, camera)
- the keyboard itself
- widescreen display (just don't like it)
- the additional cost of buying a full XP licence (I get educational discounts, but that version can't be installed without a lot of hassel!)
- no standard PCMCIA slot
- magsafe and other magnets (I wear mechanical watches and thus don't like my hands anywhere near magnets)
- price/value

The later can be argued especially if you are considering a T60p and are not eligible for large discounts.

My biggest issue with the T60 was the absence of a firewire port which could be resolved with a PCMCIA card

[kwramm]

What foodle said, additionally...

Mouse buttons: Apple "invented" the second mouse button last year with the mighty mouse. And supported them since the old Mac OS 9. Yet the MBP has still only one button. Why? I cannot even explain this with minimalistic design choices. It's purely user unfriendly.

Modem: many hotels still have no wifi. A built in modem is one less thing I have to lug around.

Magsafe: cute gimmick. I don't have kids or a pet though where I would need this.

Discoloring: won't happen on a thinkpad

Ultrabay: one of the biggest selling points of the thinkpad. Once I installed all the software I rarely need a CD/DVD drive. So In the t60 I have a second 160gb harddisk and the DVD drive sits in the dock.

Dock: love it. nuff said. All cables are nice and tidy attached to the dock and my mouse is bluetooth. I can switch from mobile to stationary use in a matter of seconds. No constant cable plugging, no messy desk full of cables. nice!

OS X: yeah it's sweet and nice and good looking and it makes everyone drool. Yet all my apps are on Windows. And when I need OS X, the Thinkpad runs it just nicely.

Also I saw that, at least in the T60 hardware maintenance manual, the CPU is socketed. I dunno if the MBP has the same feature. This could be really nice for future updates.

[auslander]

I finally got two friends of mine together last night (one has a 15.4" MBP with the "glossy" screen, one has a 15" T60p) so I could look at both machines side-by-side.

I should have taken pictures, but the MBP screen is definately brighter than the T60p. I decided that the T60p screen was bright enough, and that if I really get annoyed with it for color work (photography, etc) I can get a desktop LCD that has a lot more brightness even than the mac (Dell's 24" widescreen is 1920x1200, 450 nits brightness, and is $700 now).

In the end (this morning) I ordered a T60p (200793U) that should arrive tomorrow morning (thank you FedEx).

Ultimately it came down to this for me:

- T60p has a better keyboard
- T60p has the touchpad and trackpoint (or whatever it's called)
- T60p has three buttons on the mouse as opposed to one (I really though I could get over that, but it's just such a pain in the [censored]).
- T60p runs much, much cooler than the MBP
- I like the 4:3 aspect ratio for the machine better than the "wide" one on the MBP
- T60p seems much more durable than the MBP

Honestly, if Apple would put another button on the mouse, and solve the heat problem, they would have a good contendor.

[auslander]

Also I saw that, at least in the T60 hardware maintenance manual, the CPU is socketed. I dunno if the MBP has the same feature. This could be really nice for future updates.

MBP definately has a soldered-in CPU, so no upgrades.

It'll be nice to pop a T7600 or T7700 (Merom CPUs) in the T60p in a few months when they are cheaper.

[jjfcpa]

Yes, I considered getting a MBP, but there are couple of things that really turned me off. Granted, the hardware is very nice and stylish except for the heat, keyboard, and touchpad. Once you get past this, you still have to deal with the following:

1. It's proprietary - you will be locked into the hardware once you start using software that only runs on a mac. Soon, you'll be so locked into a MAC that you won't be able to switch to a PC because your data won't transfer.

2. MAC uses are generally snobs. Everytime I posted a comment about switching to a MAC, I got replys saying "hey, if you don't want to switch to OS X as your primary OS, then buy a Windows laptop". I got this response over and over, yet, they couldn't seem to understand that we develop Visual Foxpro software that doesn't run on a MAC. All they could say is there are suitable alternatives. Hey guys... plug in and listen, there are NO alternatives to VFP... none, nada, no way, get it?

They think that after devoting 20 years of your life to learning a development language you can just change OS and use a new language to develop your software. If these MAC users are that dense, I don't want anything to do with them.

[vvv]

2. MAC uses are generally snobs. Everytime I posted a comment about switching to a MAC, I got replys saying "hey, if you don't want to switch to OS X as your primary OS, then buy a Windows laptop". I got this response over and over, yet, they couldn't seem to understand that we develop Visual Foxpro software that doesn't run on a MAC. All they could say is there are suitable alternatives. Hey guys... plug in and listen, there are NO alternatives to VFP... none, nada, no way, get it?

They think that after devoting 20 years of your life to learning a development language you can just change OS and use a new language to develop your software. If these MAC users are that dense, I don't want anything to do with them.

Yeah, I wasn't going to say anything, but the MAC "culture" turns me off from their product, I was all set to buy a mbp, but once I started looking around at the forums, I went to the apple store, and well it seems that they try to sell you a lifestyle along with their product, which I have never liked, it's like the XtreeME marketing style, which I just don't like. I'd rather just buy a product and decide my lifestyle, I don't think that what computer I choose has anything to do with who I am. Anyways, theres my little rant. I'm probably going to get a thinkpad, esp after reading somethings I didn't know about the mbp here, like the battery life, I didn't realize it was that bad.

[Smith2688]

Well, if you're mainly going to be using Windows, you're better off with the T60 or another Windows based machine.

[auslander]

Yeah, there definately is something to the "cult of the mac" idea - the stores are annoying because it's staffed by a bunch of hipsters that don't know anything. To get any answers out of them, you have make an appointment at the "genius bar" (http://www.apple.com/retail/geniusbar/) to talk to a "genius" about whatever.

So, that's pretty annoying. I mean, it's a nice machine (EFI boot is cool, MagSafe, etc) but they definately put form ahead of function and are selling a hipster lifestyle. I always joke that Apple is releasing "iTV" next, which will give Mac users the ability to watch TV. But, if you like the way OSX runs, it can be really great I guess -- I am one of only a few Linux-runners at my office, about 80% of dev is done on OSX machines.

I, for one, will only be running Windows inside VMWare or Parallels or something (maybe dual-boot, who knows). I only use Windows for MS Streets&Trips and I do all my development work on Linux (Fedora Core 5).

I know Lenovo supports SLED now on the T60p, but I'm not a SuSE fan.

[foodle]

Some Mac users can be annoying, but I try not to let the Mac "culture" sway my buying decision much. A good machine is a good machine, no matter who the other users are or what the company's marketing department does. Sure, Apple sometimes has overly cutesy names for some of their products/services (especially for us sober, buttoned-downed Thinkpad types), but it doesn't bug me too much.

As for the Genius Bar, I just look at it as in-person tech support. I can't remember the last time I called a tech support line actually in search of technical support. By the time I call, I've already researched the problem on the net enough to know what the problem is and just need their official stamp of approval for an RMA or whatever.

[thinktank]

2. MAC uses are generally snobs.

Well, that certainly was a factor as well. Not that it really matters that much and I am sure I can be a snob too. But it starts with these I'm-a-Mac-and-I'm-a-PC commercials. Yes, they are funny, but can I really identify with the Mac-dude other than him hitting on the cute Japanese girl? Not really. I really think that Apple is missing a big chance of selling to the "business" community. The hardware problems are mentioned above already. But it's a marketing issue also. Preying on the well-known weaknesses of Wintel does not help, especially if you want to sell a machine that DOES run Windows, which is something that a lot of people still want and need - reluctantly or not.

This forum here by the way certainly helped with the final decision. I found a lot of knowledgable answers to my questions. Various Mac forums did not come accross like that. There was a lot of the aforementioned "why don't you get a friggin PC then" attitude and "we are DIFFERENT" (now with a non-widescreen, black laptop without a hot or exploding battery WE can feel different...). Problem solving did not seem to be a big priority. Maybe because they don't have problems and are happy with their iChat and iPhoto. Maybe they just don't care. Who knows. I remember bringing up the issue of the small form factor express slot and that there is no mobile internet hardware availble for it. Nobody got it. It was all about "dude, it has built in Wi-Fi". Apple should start thinking beyond the dorm room. Especially now that ThinkPads aren't IBM anymore and nobody knows where the Chinese are going with the product now.

[kwramm]

I'm actually pretty happy with the recent Apple hardware I bought. My mac mini is solid as a rock and a pretty sweet machine. So are the Apple peripherals.

It was a huge step for me to buy the mini. Not because I'm anti Mac, but my last Powerbook (old original G3 250) I owned was one of the worst, if not THE worst, mobile computing product I owned so far. For a $2500 machine the hardware design and manufacturing quality was just terrible.

This and the recent MBP troubles give me the impression that the Apple desktops and portables are two total different animals when it comes to quality. This was also a reason I finally went for the t60p.

However I would buy one of the new Mac Pro's if I had the money. The Apple desktops I worked with were all pretty neat machines.

[kwsmithphoto]

They aren't really comparable, IMHO, mainly because of OS and support. Apple enables but doesn't support running Windows on their hardware. If you switch to OSX then it's a whole different argument but it in my case that isn't feasible - I have thousands of dollars invested in Windows software that don't have "crossgrade" options, so it would cost me a small fortune to switch platforms.

The 3 year warranty and free tech support for my T60 that cost $1000 than a comparable Macbook Pro is yet another compelling reason to stick with Thinkpad and Windows. So is the machine itself - the MBP's do have better display quality but no fingerprint reader (which saved my butt when my T43 got stolen), and they keyboard membrane that make a coffee spill on the keyboard a non-event on a Thinkpad that would fry a Macbook. I'd also sorely miss the trackpoint and right mouse button, which I really prefer over a trackpad (I disabled it on my Thinkpad).

Heat wise, the T43 was a bit of lap burner, especially when plugged in but the T60 runs much cooler than any of the Mac notebooks, including the nice little black Macbook a co-worker has.

IOW, the machines themselves aren't compelling enough to invest in all new OSX software though I do prefer the operating system, and like many of the MBP's design elements. But as travel machine that's often used in difficult environments, the T60 has the edge and the pricing, warranty, and support is much better.

[rocketman]

The latest MacBook Pro's, the ones with the new logic board that replaces those that had the "whine" sound seem to fix several problem areas of the MacBook Pro. It also makes the macBook Pros run cooler. I would advise anyone who is interested in purchasing the MacBook Pro check this out on Apples support site. It tells of the machine serial #'s that were affected by the faulty logic board so you can avoid them.
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1916
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303365

[devilsrejection]

to be perfectly honest i love a mac as a desktop and a thinkpad as a mobile solution.

i'm going to have to suggest you get a thinkpad only because if you get passed one having windows and one having mac os x, hadware wise the thinkpad is generally built better in my opinion.

[vvv]

Well, thanks to all who replied, I just bought a T60p, hopefully I'll have it soon.

[devilsrejection]

Well, thanks to all who replied, I just bought a T60p, hopefully I'll have it soon.

enjoy!

[defjux]

I'm shocked I haven't heard anyone mention the swappable drive bay as a major selling point for the T-series. I absolutely love this thing.

[pharao111]

Hi folks,
well mac users are sometimes a bit "special" or act like snobsters but generally they aren't more weird then other computer users, i mean come on have you ever tried to talk with a linux user??haha its sooo difficult to have a normal conversation with them:) I mean jjfcpa you say they are using a proprietary system but in facto you're using one aswell because you're machine is running under windows and thats in the same category like MAC OSX... and i wonder who told you that you cannot transfer you're date between both systems...i never have that kind of problem with my powerbook and my windows desktop or my linux server...the dude who told you that just was wrong...

changing to macbooks isn't a bad idea today because you can run windows xp on it aswell and with the new bootcamp version you can even use the isight webcam and i guess till end of year you'll be able to use the hardware even better with never releases of that tool. as notebook hardware they are nice and good looking i think you'll get a nice piece of technology for your money which won't let you down for a long time (my first notebook which i bought for 1500$ was broken after 1year, my powerbook i bought for 1800$ is running since 3years without any trouble) and i think its bollock if some mac users say if you wanna run windows on it go and buy yourself a winNotebook, Apple themself made the invitation by changing to intel, so all MAClovers,you have to live with the fact that there will be some MACs running only with windows (for me, its okey).

i think trying to compare two diff types of notebooks as the mbp and the t60p is really really hard because they are trying to reach diff types of users, mbp is more interesstig for ppl working in advertising marketing and using it for "fun"stuff, the t60p and x60s are more the types for business users and technical users, or would you need a webcam for drawing a 3d design of a machine??? both types have similarities but still they are that different that its not easy to say this one is better or that one is better, because in their spots they are the best choises you can make...


me:
using a windows amd64+ desktop,
apple powerbook,
and next wednesday also a x60s

[jjfcpa]

pharao111 - I agree in principle with what you are saying - but Apple's advertising does NOT distinguish that the MBP, or any MAC for that matter, is intended for a limited market.

They compare their MAC to a Windows PC and stress that the MAC is ready to be used right out of the box, whereas the Windows PC requires some "setup" and updating (presumably the Windows Update). Yes, this is true, but it's no different than buying the latest game at Compusa only to find out that you've got to download the latest patches and updates for it.

I find it kind of reassuring that they are constantly updating drivers and patching holes for Windows and my Thinkpad.

The point being, they don't advertise the MAC as a "student" or "business" model, but clearly, the Thinkpad (other than the 100 and 300 series) are advertised and priced like business laptops.

The comparison of a MBP (any of them) to a T60 is a joke, because the MBP comes up way short. Yet, when you talke to any of the people in an Apple store, they give you the impression that OS X is superior to Windows and you should seriously consider leaving Windows behind. Not try and run Windows as your primary OS on a MAC. This is breaking the 11th commandment.

Shows you how naive they are because they have not yet experience the breadth and width of software - business software - that is available for Windows compared to OS X.

OS X may very well be superior to Windows in a lot of ways, but in the most important way to most users, it's not! That way being the one that allows them to run software they need for their business. I could rip off dozens of applications that are strictly business oriented that ONLY run in Windows that are used by thousands, perhaps millions, of users. Until more developers start converting to OS X, and currently they are NOT, OS X will continue to be used by lots of students, graphics people, and those who want to use their MAC as a cross platform (OS X and Windows).

Put another way, my first PC was an original IBM PC model 5150 back in 1982, and I've yet to have a compelling reason in all these year that made me buy a MAC. If they didn't just recently switch to the Intel processor and provide a way to run Windows software, they still wouldn't have hit my radar screen.

[pharao111]

yap jjfcpa, you're right and i agree with you the macsales guy's try to make that impression on you, i know it from here in switzerland aswell, but lets be honest the other salescrafts are trying the same, so its just a mather of the point of view. in business stuff you're totally right the software available for windows is like one for mac and 100for windows but we shouldn't forget that to each mac running there are probably 20pc-win systems running so its normal. i think the agressive way of the apple advertisement strategy is to get into the view of the normal consumers because they have the touch of snobby designer tools, and so i think the company just wanted to change that impression... the pricing is quite okey i think because for similar pricings you get brands like acer (sorry acer users) or other brands which use only cheap plastic enclosers or similar cheap material and then half year later you're notebook makes noises and squeezes when you touch it or try to close it (my dad's dell is that way and it was the top modell they sold...it cost over 2500$ last year june).

thats why also i decided to buy myself an ibm even thought they sold their personal computer department to lenovo because what you see is what you get and its a really nice piece of technology and all the money worth you invest into and in its way the mac's are the same. it just depends on the needs. this time i needed better battery performance, less weight for carrying and i wanted to have a colour change,three years in silver is okey,back in black this time:)

my first one was the Apple Macintosh 512 KB (which is still running )

[mlli4]

The best combination is Mac OS X + Thinkpad hardware
unfortunately it is dream.

[greynolds]

They compare their MAC to a Windows PC and stress that the MAC is ready to be used right out of the box, whereas the Windows PC requires some "setup" and updating (presumably the Windows Update).

If one purchases a current preconfigured Windows PC, it's going to be just as ready to be used right out of the box as a MAC. The Windows Updates certainly aren't mandatory - though it's usually a pretty good idea to keep current to try to keep the security holes as plugged up as possible. But the MAC one buys isn't going to come with every app that's needed preinstalled any more than the Windows box is. I find it pretty hard to believe that the apps the MAC comes with are all a user will need to do what they bought the computer for.

I find it kind of reassuring that they are constantly updating drivers and patching holes for Windows and my Thinkpad.

Well it's reassuring and troubling at the same time as many of the holes really shouldn't be there to begin with - that's one area where Linux / OS X slaps Windows.

The point being, they don't advertise the MAC as a "student" or "business" model, but clearly, the Thinkpad (other than the 100 and 300 series) are advertised and priced like business laptops.

Who really cares how they're advertised or priced? The bottom line is whether they a) are well built, b) have the features you are looking for, and c) run the software you want / need to use. The rest, especially the advertising, really doesn't matter.

The comparison of a MBP (any of them) to a T60 is a joke, because the MBP comes up way short.

Though I just ordered a T60p instead of a MBP, I'm not sure I agree that the MBP is a joke or "comes up way short". The MBP has / had some issues such as running hot, but the overall design is pretty good and it has some features I consider somewhat important, such as firewire and DVI out without needing a docking station, that the T60p doesn't have. A widescreen display is clearly a matter of personal preference despite some people preaching that no one in their right mind would use a widescreen for business use. To me the whole business / recreation / whatever use thing doesn't really make much sense anymore. For business use these days, we need to be able to play various types of media files for presentations and such and there's certainly no reason that the laptop can't serve double duty for those who want to play an occassional game. And for recreational use, there's no reason one wouldn't want to get something that's well built and will hold up well over the years. Can't the 2 uses coexist nicely in one box? For me, I ordered the T60p for a mix of business and personal use, though I probably won't be playing games on it as I have several full size desktop PC's at home that I'd be more likely to use for that.

Shows you how naive they are because they have not yet experience the breadth and width of software - business software - that is available for Windows compared to OS X.

There are zillions of non business apps that only run on Windows too. Software for setting up remote controls, home automation equipment, upgrading firmware in various consumer electronics devices, the list goes on and on - frequently run only on Windows. I really think that the business angle is largely irrelevant. The point is that there are tons of apps of all types that won't run under OS X / Linux. I see it all the time reading articles in magazines - the author owns a MAC something or other and is reviewing some gizmo that has software with it that requires a Windows box. The author then has to hunt down a friend with a Windows box so they can do their review.

OS X may very well be superior to Windows in a lot of ways, but in the most important way to most users, it's not! That way being the one that allows them to run software they need for their business.

Agreed, but take "for their business" off the end of the last sentence and I not only still agree, but it makes a stronger case against OS X. OS X is definitely superior to Windows in a lot of ways, but we obviously both agree that software availability trumps those advantages.

[jjfcpa]

graynolds - Interesting comments. Most I agree with, some more than others.

I think if you evaluate a MB or MBP strictly based on the hardware, it's not bad when compared to a Dell Inspiron or HP Presario or Gateway, but I don't think it holds up to Lenovo Thinkpads, Dell Lattitudes, or HP business models. For one, all the business models come with TPM which is required by more and more corporate purchasers. The only thing the MAC offers is a stylish box, but the hardware is "consumer" grade. Just look around and you'll see it has a serious thermal issue. I've experienced it myself first hand at 3 different Apple stores. I can't believe they let them sit out like that and people feel the heat and consider buying them. OK, I did too...

We both agree on the software end of things. Yes, OS X might be a nice operating system, but there is just not enough variety, quantity, and quality of software apps for that OS. How could there be... they still only have 2% market share.

[ZildjianKX]

Interesting thread, especially considering since I'm thinking about selling my T43 for a Core 2 Duo MBP when it comes out.

I definitely prefer the Mac OS, and now that they've switched to Intel I can get by by either dual booting or running Parallels. I like the idea of running windows in an emulator. If it craps out, I can just drag a backup disk image off an external hard drive and I'm good to go.

As long as the heat issues are taken care of, I really don't see a reason to complain about the MBP other than the lack of a 2nd mouse button.

[greynolds]

Interesting thread, especially considering since I'm thinking about selling my T43 for a Core 2 Duo MBP when it comes out.

I definitely prefer the Mac OS, and now that they've switched to Intel I can get by by either dual booting or running Parallels. I like the idea of running windows in an emulator. If it craps out, I can just drag a backup disk image off an external hard drive and I'm good to go.

As long as the heat issues are taken care of, I really don't see a reason to complain about the MBP other than the lack of a 2nd mouse button.

Well, for Windows use the lack of a 2nd mouse button was a deal breaker for me as was the lack of a docking station solution. Other than that, the feature set of the MBP is certainly very good, but I wasn't overly impressed with the overall "feel" when I looked at them in the store a few weeks back.

The Thinkpad T60p I ordered is lacking a couple of features I liked on the MBP (DVI and Firewire outputs on the laptop), but they weren't deal breakers for me.

[ZildjianKX]

Interesting thread, especially considering since I'm thinking about selling my T43 for a Core 2 Duo MBP when it comes out.

I definitely prefer the Mac OS, and now that they've switched to Intel I can get by by either dual booting or running Parallels. I like the idea of running windows in an emulator. If it craps out, I can just drag a backup disk image off an external hard drive and I'm good to go.

As long as the heat issues are taken care of, I really don't see a reason to complain about the MBP other than the lack of a 2nd mouse button.

Well, for Windows use the lack of a 2nd mouse button was a deal breaker for me as was the lack of a docking station solution. Other than that, the feature set of the MBP is certainly very good, but I wasn't overly impressed with the overall "feel" when I looked at them in the store a few weeks back.

The Thinkpad T60p I ordered is lacking a couple of features I liked on the MBP (DVI and Firewire outputs on the laptop), but they weren't deal breakers for me.

I have to admit, I'm surprised more PC laptops don't have DVI standard, Powerbooks have had them for ages.

I also do admit I like the keyboard on Thinkpads better...

[foodle]

I have to admit, I'm surprised more PC laptops don't have DVI standard, Powerbooks have had them for ages.

While DVI is great for hooking up to an LCD at home/work, it's not so great when you are on the road making presentations. Many projectors only have VGA inputs, not DVI. This necessitates bringing a DVI to VGA converter dongle, and if you forget/lose it, you are dead in the water. So I prefer that the laptop itself have a VGA output rather than DVI (at least until more projectors have DVI inputs).

The docking station has a DVI out, so that's good enough for me.