Thinkpads Forum

Ruger wrote: 1/8th of an inch huge?!?! You're talking about the thickness of two quarters. The "tabook" lists the Z61p as (WxDxH): 14.1" x 10.3" x 1.47-1.58" Without the alloy cover, it's probably 1.47. And the Fire GL card in Z is much better than the Nvidia card, imo. That, combined with the higher res thinkpad UXGA screen and all the other thinkpad features:
Integrated Fingerprint Reader
ThinkPad Roll Cage
Active Protection System
Shock-Mounted Hard Drive
Client Security Solution

Extras that most people ignore, but just some of the engineering aspects that make Thinkpad superior.

Everyone has their own reasons for choosing the computer they do. Personally, I've always been a fan of Thinkpads for their great keyboards, balance of power & weight, and overall good design. I for one was disappointed with the thickness of the 15" T-series. I've had a 570, T40, T42, T60p, and I'm as die-hard a Thinkpad user as the next guy. Don't get me wrong, I love Thinkpads.. but 1) every Thickpad I've owned has been progressively worse than the prior in terms of build quality (keyboard being the most obvious way to tell), and 2) other companies have been better and better at catching up. Compare the HP nw8440 to the Z61p: the HP has similar specs, from the C2Duo, WUXGA screen, FireGL 5200, fingerprint, magnesium case, HD drop detection, etc. But the HP is a pound lighter, and 1.1 inch vs 1.47-1.58. My point is, the days of saying "its better just because it's a Thinkpad" is over. All of the advantages you listed are available by other vendors in one form or another. And while the Thinkpad keyboards have slowly gotten worse over time, some other vendors' keyboards have gotten better over the same period. I still prefer Thinkpads myself, perhaps because I've been touting them to all my friends & family all these years. But the gap between Thinkpads and others have been closing rapidly. And in many ways, Lenovo is behind in providng viable alternatives to laptops like the Dell D820, HP nw8440, and Apple Macbook Pro. The fact that you can currently only order a T-series with a 1400x1050 screen makes matters even worse.

802.11n uses an Atheros based card that apparently is not yet available. I think a sales person said in a week or two. Might want to call to see if option is available and just not on web yet.

The Atheros a/b/g/n cards are available in some pre-configured systems.

seeplus wrote: The Atheros a/b/g/n cards are available in some pre-configured systems.

Correct: Salesman today said they are shipping with some 'Z' systems, but not available on 'X' (or maybe 'T').

GXCross wrote:(snip) Compare the HP nw8440 to the Z61p: the HP has similar specs, from the C2Duo, WUXGA screen, FireGL 5200, fingerprint, magnesium case, HD drop detection, etc. But the HP is a pound lighter, and 1.1 inch vs 1.47-1.58. My point is, the days of saying "its better just because it's a Thinkpad" is over.

OK, fair enough, though the Z61 is definitely not one of the most impressive ThinkPad models.

(snip) But the gap between Thinkpads and others have been closing rapidly. And in many ways, Lenovo is behind in providng viable alternatives to laptops like the Dell D820, HP nw8440, and Apple Macbook Pro.

Oops, your credibility just dropped with the comparison to the "D" word!

Seriously, apart from a feature-list comparison, the big reason I am typing this on a ThinkPad is the design (I know, a weak point on the Z series) and the quality of construction. Most other notebooks are simply not as well put together as ThinkPads.

And that's why you see lots of people still shopping for X21s and T20s (let alone the real vintage models). Dells, for example, are usually thoroughly worn out after the first three-year cycle ...

This may be a dumb question, but I am looking at getting a Z61m instead of a T60 largely due to the enormous hassle of getting what I want in a configuration in Canada.

The one Im probably going to try to get is the 9452JRU. Does anyone have any real reason not to? I would have liked to get a T60 but all of those options were next to impossible to configure wihtout going well outside of my budget limit.( Stupid budget limit.) Is there any solid reason not too?

hawkbox wrote:This may be a dumb question, but I am looking at getting a Z61m instead of a T60 largely due to the enormous hassle of getting what I want in a configuration in Canada.

The one Im probably going to try to get is the 9452JRU. Does anyone have any real reason not to? I would have liked to get a T60 but all of those options were next to impossible to configure wihtout going well outside of my budget limit.( Stupid budget limit.) Is there any solid reason not too?

You could get a T60 at a nice discount through visaperks.ca -- the only catch is that the promotion expires tonight!

I have to buy it through my supplier and he basically only gives like 20$ off a 3k purchase from the website price. Stupid rfp is coming back to bite me in the [censored].

tomh009 wrote: Oops, your credibility just dropped with the comparison to the "D" word!

Hehe, believe me, it pains me to say it too. I have never liked Dell notebooks - although I standardized my company on Dell workstations and servers. Up till recently, their notebooks were poorly built and felt like they were just slapped together. But I was very surprised when I used the D620 and D820 - it appears Dell has turned a corner in terms of fit & finish. Perhaps it's still too early to say how well it'll hold up over time, but for the first time, Dell has a contender imo. I haven't pulled the trigger yet on buying one, but if I do, it's not because of price. In fact, it'd be more expensive than a comparable T-series as I can buy Thinkpads using an EPP discount. But if I want a relatively thin & lightweight laptop w/ 1920x1200 screen, C2Duo, and 2 internal hard drives, there just isn't another alternative right now. (I'm still hoping Lenovo releases a good widescreen T-series before I have to buy tho)

tomh009 wrote: Seriously, apart from a feature-list comparison, the big reason I am typing this on a ThinkPad is the design (I know, a weak point on the Z series) and the quality of construction. Most other notebooks are simply not as well put together as ThinkPads.

And that's why you see lots of people still shopping for X21s and T20s (let alone the real vintage models). Dells, for example, are usually thoroughly worn out after the first three-year cycle ...

As I said in my previous post, this has certainly been true in the past. But other vendors are catching up, and Thinkpad quality has declined slightly over the years. If Lenovo continues to cut corners in the fit & finish area, that one differentiation that has garnered it many die-hard fans will be gone as well.

It is amazing how strong preferences people have on notebook brands given that neither Lenovo, Dell, HP, or any of the other big computer companies design or build them. They all come off the same manufacturing lines at Compal, Quanta, and a few other Taiwanese companies that both build and design them.

bert wrote:They all come off the same manufacturing lines at Compal, Quanta, and a few other Taiwanese companies that both build and design them.

That may be true, but they Thinkpads are still built with original designs and features from IBM. Dell, HP, etc. do not have the same level of laptop quality or features such as Active Protection which requires a motion detector chip.

bert wrote:It is amazing how strong preferences people have on notebook brands given that neither Lenovo, Dell, HP, or any of the other big computer companies design or build them. They all come off the same manufacturing lines at Compal, Quanta, and a few other Taiwanese companies that both build and design them.

The contract manufacturers will build to their customers' specs -- they basically do assembly. So they'll use a Dell-spec case, Dell-spec hinges, Dell-spec keyboard etc. So even if the units come off the same assembly line, it doesn't mean they are identical.

GXCross wrote:Hehe, believe me, it pains me to say it too. I have never liked Dell notebooks - although I standardized my company on Dell workstations and servers. Up till recently, their notebooks were poorly built and felt like they were just slapped together. But I was very surprised when I used the D620 and D820 - it appears Dell has turned a corner in terms of fit & finish. Perhaps it's still too early to say how well it'll hold up over time, but for the first time, Dell has a contender imo. I haven't pulled the trigger yet on buying one, but if I do, it's not because of price. In fact, it'd be more expensive than a comparable T-series as I can buy Thinkpads using an EPP discount. But if I want a relatively thin & lightweight laptop w/ 1920x1200 screen, C2Duo, and 2 internal hard drives, there just isn't another alternative right now. (I'm still hoping Lenovo releases a good widescreen T-series before I have to buy tho)

The fit and finish is improved -- the D410 was the first one where I saw that. But I'm not convinced about actual build/component quality improvements yet.

We should know in a few weks what the wide-screen T-series looks like. I don't know much, but I am expecting a much more ThinkPad-like effort than the current Z series!