Thinkpads Forum

megalosaurus wrote:The public fell for the hype that widescreen displays are superior, so that's where the bandwagon is now.

Precisely!

megalosaurus wrote:My son showed up for his first day of high school a few weeks ago with a high-end ThinkPad with a FlexView UXGA display, and all his classmates teased him about having an antique computer, while they were showing off their state-of-the-art Dells with their 1280x800 "widescreen" displays.

Yeah, the students (and I use that term loosely here) who think a computer is for watching movies and posing. Poor suckers could not grasp just exactly what a fine machine your son has. Much less what it's for.

....and I have yet to see a state of the art Dell...

Kudos to you for providing your son with a professional laptop for his education. He's already left them in the dust... they just don't know it.

Cheers....

My employer is a large high-tech company that distributes ThinkPads to most employees - who are supposed to be rather technically oriented relative to the general population. But I can tell you that a lot of them still see their laptop computers more as a fashion accessory or entertainment device rather than a tool for doing useful work.

Since I don't have any emotional attachment to either aspect ratio, I'm really more inclined to sit back and watch with bemused amazement as this phenomenon unfolds and congratulate the world's computer and TV manufacturers for their brilliant marketing strategy in convincing consumers that removing the bottom 25 percent of their screen improves the display resolution. As long as I don't lose any pixels in the process, I'm happy.

megalosaurus wrote:[Very simple - and kind of sad, actually. The LCD manufacturers are shutting down their 4:3 screen production. If you're in the business of manufacturing laptop computers, you can either go "widescreen" or pay an exorbitant price to your LCD suppliers to special-order 4:3 screens, and then have the buying public think your products are outdated. The public fell for the hype that widescreen displays are superior, so that's where the bandwagon is now. My son showed up for his first day of high school a few weeks ago with a high-end ThinkPad with a FlexView UXGA display, and all his classmates teased him about having an antique computer, while they were showing off their state-of-the-art Dells with their 1280x800 "widescreen" displays.

I fail to see the big point of widescreen for the business masses in a notebook. When I think of a notebook, I need a machine that meets the following critera:

-High resolution
-Relatively speedy
-Reasonable size
-Reasonable weight
-Great battery life
-Good trackrecord.

The T43 met this. I wouldn't have bought it if it had a widescreen, which seems just plain ugly to me. I have a widescreen in the iMac, my G5 desktop in the other room. It's a nice widescreen, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't want to lug that around all day. I'll take a 4:3 LCD any day. I've never used the flexview, but the 1400x1050 I have now does the job admirably.

A widescreen would have been an extra frill that would have waisted more power. No thank you.

Nice to already have the machine I'll be proud to lug to college next year.

Don't hold your breath for the "T61P"....
The revised T60Ps will be completely unimpressive. NO WUXGA screen..only WSXGA. Only slightly upgraded video that is now SIGNIFICANTLY slower than the competition..and still 256MB. No wireless-N...

I had thought this would be an upgrade worth waiting for...I see now that Thinkpads no longer lead in performance...or technology.

There are some KEY problems with the Thinkpad brand, that continue to this day:
Underpower graphics- Yes..its in bold. Dell and HP laptops run circles around most thinkpad models in gaming and other graphics intensive apps.
XGA screens- XGA should rot with the rest of 20th century tech. Its completely useless now with Vista a month away. EVERY mid-range+ thinkpad should have SXGA+ minimum. High end and workstation models should have WUXGA, or WQXGA (Like Dell does).
Low 7200RPM HDD availability. Inexcusable. These should be STANDARD on (P) models



That Toshiba Tecra M7 tablet with discrete graphics and SXGA+ display looks mighty nice at the moment....

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Actually, the 7200 rpm drives are highly available now on the T-series, unlike in the summer.
As for screen resolution, on the ultraportables i dont really need (nor want) SXGA+.
Yep widescreen is a waste of battery. Only good for spreadsheets or kids who dont have a real LCD tv.

Proteus wrote:Don't hold your breath for the "T61P"....
The revised T60Ps will be completely unimpressive. NO WUXGA screen..only WSXGA. Only slightly upgraded video that is now SIGNIFICANTLY slower than the competition..and still 256MB. No wireless-N...

I had thought this would be an upgrade worth waiting for...I see now that Thinkpads no longer lead in performance...or technology.

There are some KEY problems with the Thinkpad brand, that continue to this day:
Underpower graphics- Yes..its in bold. Dell and HP laptops run circles around most thinkpad models in gaming and other graphics intensive apps.
XGA screens- XGA should rot with the rest of 20th century tech. Its completely useless now with Vista a month away. EVERY mid-range+ thinkpad should have SXGA+ minimum. High end and workstation models should have WUXGA, or WQXGA (Like Dell does).
Low 7200RPM HDD availability. Inexcusable. These should be STANDARD on (P) models



That Toshiba Tecra M7 tablet with discrete graphics and SXGA+ display looks mighty nice at the moment....

[/b]

NO WUXGA I'm really upset that I missed out on the T60P with WUXGA. Guess I have to look at another mfg.

Proteus wrote:Don't hold your breath for the "T61P"....
The revised T60Ps will be completely unimpressive. NO WUXGA screen..only WSXGA. Only slightly upgraded video that is now SIGNIFICANTLY slower than the competition..and still 256MB. No wireless-N...

I had thought this would be an upgrade worth waiting for...I see now that Thinkpads no longer lead in performance...or technology.

There are some KEY problems with the Thinkpad brand, that continue to this day:
Underpower graphics- Yes..its in bold. Dell and HP laptops run circles around most thinkpad models in gaming and other graphics intensive apps.
XGA screens- XGA should rot with the rest of 20th century tech. Its completely useless now with Vista a month away. EVERY mid-range+ thinkpad should have SXGA+ minimum. High end and workstation models should have WUXGA, or WQXGA (Like Dell does).
Low 7200RPM HDD availability. Inexcusable. These should be STANDARD on (P) models



That Toshiba Tecra M7 tablet with discrete graphics and SXGA+ display looks mighty nice at the moment....

[/b]

HI THERE!!

I'm agree with you!

well I think The big 2 differences on the new chipsets are:
will support 64 bit programs and the other possibly the wireless N
but, you have to wait the next summer for wireless N becomes available!!

one more thing about performance I think the improvements are very slightly!!!! not big differences. Overall, the new chipsets are only for a little bump on performance on 20 or 30% and support the new technology like wireless N and for now if you buy a wireless N router you have to buy the adapter if you want the performance it claims ! I know they support A,B,G but it will not be the same so, you must buy the adapter!!!

@Proteus

I was under the impression that
a) Thinkpads were buisness machines
b) FireGL cards were superior for CAD

When you put (a) and (b) together I dont see Dell nor HP "running cirlces" around IBM. If you want something to play games on, buy (or build) a desktop.

And I'm glad you have good eye sight Proteus, but I work for a university where most of the professors have bad eye sight. When they're ordering a laptop they go "ooh ooh I want the UXGA" then they get it, and immediately set the resolution down to 1024x768 and 1) scold us for setting the resolution at a level they cant read 2) complain about how fuzzy their LCD is (because its not at its native resolution. You would be amazed at how happy the professors who convince to order 15" XGA screens are, because guess what? They can read the screen!

And to everyone complaining about T series not having widescreen, buy a friggen Z series!

PS No one has cited any sources or given any indication of why they believe Lenovo will come out with a widescreen T.

Each person obviously has their own requirements for a laptop, for me the lack of a 15 inch 1600*1200 screen is a big negative when looking at the thinkpads. If the new models will only have the 14 inch screen then I guess I need to look at the Z series but the 15 inch screen was a big reason why I was willing to pay more for the thinkpad.

The problem now seems that you either have to get one of the core duo 15 inch thinkpads from a distributor or get the core2 duo with a 14 inch screen. I just dont feel that good about either solution at this point. The graphics in the thinkpad are a weak point, but I was willing to live with that for the better screen and reliability.

I need to do graphically intensive applications and I need to have the ability to do 64 bit in the future. If I could have a 15 inch 1600*1200 screen thinkpad with a core2 duo chip it would have been perfect for what I need to do. If that isnt going to be an option then maybe the new Z series will work or maybe I need to start over and look at other brands again.

@Sparta
1) Thinkpads are business machines. I travel and present on my T41P extensively. Like MANY people however, I also use my laptop for games, and watching DVDs on those same business trips.

2) Thinkpad graphics, both resolution and video performance are HORRIBLY unless you buy specific (P) models with workstation graphics. And even those are overpriced, and underpowered compared to the the competition for anything BUT CAD/3D rendering. Lenovo/IBM needs to come out with a decent, NON workstation discrete graphics solution, along with a decent screen. ESPECIALLY now that Vista is releasing..which brings us to..

3) The "myth" of XGA being more "readable". In the past, this was true, simply because Windows fonts did not scale correctly. With Vista, this is completely UNTRUE. A 15" QXGA screen is incredibly readable under Vista, which has true proportional fonts. You will not find a better screen. Even my old UXGA A31P looks amazing. XGA should be relegated to the dinosaurs...Even SXGA+ is bleh..

4) The T60P core2duo refresh WILL have 15.4 WSXGA+. I have not seen or heard of anything called a T61 yet...don't get your hopes up for next week.

5) I'd love to find another brand that would work for me. Unfortunately I require good build quality,trackpoint, and high res screen. Still haven't found that combo yet (besides Thinkpad).

sparta.rising wrote:PS No one has cited any sources or given any indication of why they believe Lenovo will come out with a widescreen T.

Widescreen Lenovo Thinkpad T-Series Later This Year

It will be announced tomorrow.

bert wrote:It will be announced tomorrow.

I hope you're right! I've been waiting anxiously for a while now, almost can't wait any longer and was going to get an HP nw8440.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3277
Core 2 duo refresh, 802.11n, and hardware encryption for hard drives.

What are the main advantages of the Core 2 Duo other than it supports 64 bit? Will it use less power so we get better battery life?

About 10% better performance. Also should include coupon for free upgrade to MS Vista.

Ah well, if battery life will stay the same, I guess I will simply buy the cheaper Core Duo. I'm a Linux user anyway, not interested in Vista

Icefang wrote:Each person obviously has their own requirements for a laptop, for me the lack of a 15 inch 1600*1200 screen is a big negative when looking at the thinkpads. If the new models will only have the 14 inch screen then I guess I need to look at the Z series but the 15 inch screen was a big reason why I was willing to pay more for the thinkpad.

This isn't the first time the ThinkPad brand has left us hanging. In 2000 (or maybe it was 1999), IBM withdrew the 770Z, which was the only model with a 1280x1024 display. For over a year, there were no ThinkPads with anything better than XGA. I had to fight to keep my employer from giving me an "upgrade" to a 600. They couldn't seem to understand that losing 40 % of my pixels wasn't much of an upgrade. Finally they came out with the A20P, and then shortly afterwards the A21P with a UXGA display, and then we knew it was worth the wait.

The question now is whether we're going into another brief dry spell before getting a real advance, or if Lenovo has bitten off more than it could chew with the ThinkPad line and is in slow decline. Only time will tell. Fortunately, my ThinkPad needs are met for now, but for those of you who missed out on getting a UXGA T60P ... I feel your pain.

Lenovo has just released Core 2 Duo T60(not T61) machine!

http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi- ... anguage=en

Looking at the specs of the new machines is disapointing to me. The processer got upgraded but the best screen available is a 15 inch 1400 * 1050 and the best graphics card is x1400. To me that machine is a step back from the previous version, they upgraded one component (cpu) and downgraded two others (screen and graphics card). Are the specs for the widescreen machine available anyawhere ?

Would be nice if there was an option to select it to purchase under their site. I thought it was just the Canadian site that didnt work right for it. But the American site doesnt have any core 2 options either.

Icefang wrote:Looking at the specs of the new machines is disapointing to me. The processer got upgraded but the best screen available is a 15 inch 1400 * 1050 and the best graphics card is x1400. To me that machine is a step back from the previous version, they upgraded one component (cpu) and downgraded two others (screen and graphics card). Are the specs for the widescreen machine available anyawhere ?

Not to mention the hard disk: it appears that the only choices are 5400 rpm disks...

Icefang wrote:Looking at the specs of the new machines is disapointing to me. The processer got upgraded but the best screen available is a 15 inch 1400 * 1050 and the best graphics card is x1400. To me that machine is a step back from the previous version, they upgraded one component (cpu) and downgraded two others (screen and graphics card). Are the specs for the widescreen machine available anyawhere ?

Thats T60. T60p link is here. comes with ATI Mobility Fire GL V5250

http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi- ... =en#@2h@78@

hawkbox wrote:Would be nice if there was an option to select it to purchase under their site. I thought it was just the Canadian site that didnt work right for it. But the American site doesnt have any core 2 options either.

Interestingly, they've updated the R-series page, but not the T-series. They must be right in the middle of updating their site.

Man, I can't wait... I'm going to order a T60 as soon as the site is updated.

EDIT: Even the T60's flash demo says Core 2 Duo now...

Hmm, if I read this correctly, the new 14" 1400x1050 screen is FlexView.. if so, i think I'd be willing to forgive the lack of a 1600x1200 screen to get the 14" form factor..

longfellow - can you tell me how to navigate to those announcement letters from lenovo's home page? I have access to the channel partner portal, but my announcement letters aren't in a pdf. I like those that you link to. Here's the portal I use:

http://partners.boulder.ibm.com/src/fpa ... index.html

kjjb0204 wrote:longfellow - can you tell me how to navigate to those announcement letters from lenovo's home page? I have access to the channel partner portal, but my announcement letters aren't in a pdf. I like those that you link to. Here's the portal I use:

http://partners.boulder.ibm.com/src/fpa ... index.html

Quiet honestly, I dont know. What I did was....Clicked the link that was provided by NJ_IT which took me to T60 announcement letter page. Try that now.

http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi- ... =en#@2h@78@

Then, I know Lenovo issues different announcement letters for every series and its 'p' version. ENUS 106-720 is the announcement letter no for T60 which you can find it in the link. I just kept changing the number from 721-728 in the link or until I found out the letter for T60p. Same way you can also try going back from 720- 719-718.

I know its time taking. but, it is easier than navigating from lenova home page.

Guys, let me clear a couple things up:

*That hardware announcement page doesn't discuss every configuration that will be available
*7200RPM drives will be an option; up to 160GB 5400RPM, up to 100GB 7200RPM
*There will be a 15" UXGA 1600x1200 on the T60p Core 2 Duo

Proteus wrote:Don't hold your breath for the "T61P"....
The revised T60Ps will be completely unimpressive. NO WUXGA screen..only WSXGA. Only slightly upgraded video that is now SIGNIFICANTLY slower than the competition..and still 256MB. No wireless-N...

Current T60's are 4:3 ratio, not widescreen. T60p's offer UXGA on the 15" model. ATI Mobility FireGL V5250 is one of the best midrange thin & light GPU's available. NVIDIA has some new stuff too, but ThinkPad history is with ATI for workstation graphics.

Proteus wrote:I had thought this would be an upgrade worth waiting for...I see now that Thinkpads no longer lead in performance...or technology.

How not performance? Core 2 Duo, best midrange thin & light GPU, latest HDD technology. What technology are they missing?

Proteus wrote:There are some KEY problems with the Thinkpad brand, that continue to this day:
Underpower graphics- Yes..its in bold. Dell and HP laptops run circles around most thinkpad models in gaming and other graphics intensive apps.

Everybody repeat after me: Thinkpads aren't for gaming. Dell doesn't have a better GPU in 14-15" form factor; maybe 15.4" and above. I don't think HP has one in 14-15" either, but I could be wrong. Fact of the matter is that 3D performance is used by a relatively small percentage of ThinkPad users, most users need reliability and features over gaming performance.

Proteus wrote:XGA screens- XGA should rot with the rest of 20th century tech. Its completely useless now with Vista a month away. EVERY mid-range+ thinkpad should have SXGA+ minimum. High end and workstation models should have WUXGA, or WQXGA (Like Dell does).

I agree XGA sucks, but again your average user who needs a reliable machine to check e-mail and write Word docs doesn't want or need SXGA+ and higher. I work with a guy who does writing and graphics work all day & he only uses XGA. Most people are like this, but for those who aren't you can get an SXGA+ or UXGA screen.

Proteus wrote:Low 7200RPM HDD availability. Inexcusable. These should be STANDARD on (P) models

How is it low availability? It is available, just not standard. I agree, 7200RPM would be a nice standard on the p models.

Proteus wrote:That Toshiba Tecra M7 tablet with discrete graphics and SXGA+ display looks mighty nice at the moment....

How long does that battery last? How many tablet users game on their tablet? And according to the latest rumors, Lenovo will have an SXGA+ tablet...
http://laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1524

Do we have any idea as to when we can order these things ? Do we have to wait till November ?