Thinkpads Forum

Regarding the warranty concerns - I would be sure Lenovo would have a good supply of displays for replacement, as well as replacement refurb machines.

Icefang - I'm guessing that the majority of users that are looking for high end graphics are also looking for a 15.4 wide. While many of you like the 15" 4:3 UXGA, you're in the minority. The majority of graphics users are doing photos, video, drafting, cad/cam, 3d rendering, all of which work well with a wide screen.

Not too sure what the difference would be from a t60p wide versus a z61m. The T's are lighter and thinner than the Z61m, but I think that's about it. I also know that Lenovo has had very limited success with their wide screen Z models, so having a wide T model would entice those enterprise corporations that have standardized on the T series to purchase.

Guys, STOP....there will still be 1600x1200 T60p's, at least until July 2007...

However, Lenovo will stop ordering parts from manufacturers to build them in Feb...

Barring any weird supply crunches, they will still have the 1600x1200 T60p

Ok...there has been a weird supply crunch...

So...it does look like an LCD manufacturer is breaking its promises to Lenovo...this will cause a shortage, and the end of the 1600x1200 display.

I understand they are trying to convert some T43 1600x1200 screens...only problem is they are not "Restriction of Hazardous substances" compliant...(so I don't think they can be sold in europe, or NY, or CA...)

If you want a 1600x1200 display, you should buy one...

JohnDrake - I hope you're right, because it's an awesome product and definitely fills a need in the market that no other vendor has.

I'm still doubtful. I work with Lenovo people all day and everyone is saying that screen is gone, end of life, sayonarra, bye bye.

I regret not capturing the links to the following information:

It's my understanding the 4x3 format is definitely on it's way out. This includes the T series ThinkPads which are definitely migrating to widescreen.

There may be some overlap during which you may have a choice between the two formats, however once the last of the 4x3's are sold there will be only widescreens available.

Based on my personal experience over the years, I feel certain that Lenovo will carry a sufficient inventory of 4x3 for warranty replacements.

This transition is being executed soon and by 2008 all ThinkPad models will be widescreen.

It's this very situation that caused me to purchase a Z60m just to try out the widescreen format. While it has certain benefits and I find it useful for some work, it does not suit the type of work I do. Therefore I'm certainly going to purchase another T series in 4x3 before they become obsolete.

archer, I hope that's not right. The 4x3 format works best for me, I really would like to keep getting Thinkpads in that format.

Anyway, I just bought a second T60p for backup of my main T60p, since my wife has claimjumped my T42 for her own use.

Gene

rockefella wrote:archer, I hope that's not right. The 4x3 format works best for me, I really would like to keep getting Thinkpads in that format.

Anyway, I just bought a second T60p for backup of my main T60p, since my wife has claimjumped my T42 for her own use.

Gene

Gene, I agree with you, I hope it's not right either. It's just that I have this from a few very good sources, both within Lenovo and on the outside as well. People who are operate under NDA's (non-disclosure agreements). And yet I have also read this on the web and again, being in a hurry I forgot to copy the links to post here.

Certainly everything is subject to change or delays etc. However there seems to be so much influence from a large group of laptop users that buy machines to watch movies, and do other entertainment based computing that the makers of displays and certain laptop makers are responding to that large demand.

In addition, this seems to be driven by the display makers not Lenovo. If the 4x3 TFT displays are no longer manufacturered then Lenovo has no choice other than redesigning the form factor of their ThinkPad lineup. After years of catering to the business users in large corporations, it appears that this is a market driven change due to continuing growth of widescreen laptop sales in the retail space.

The official word is there is a supply constraint on the 15" 1600x1200 screen from the manufacturer according to a reliable source. Fact is, Lenovo stopped taking orders for now on models with this screen until the supply issue is resolved. No more, no less. Once supply becomes normal again, the T60p and other 15" T series models will once again be available. And no, the T60p is definitely not discontinued by any stretch of the imagination.

There seems to be a consensus that there is a supply issue with the 15" UXGA "standard form" (4 x 3) displays. But actually Lenovo is only offering a few T60's, all XGA panels, suggesting that there is a supply issue with both the SXGA+ AND the UXGA screens.

And what about those T43's Lenovo happens to have in stock with UXGA panels ? I thought they built them to order and didn't keep much parts inventory available. No way I'll buy a T43 at this time.

But Archer6's information is that these 4 x 3 form panels are in general on the way out, while shfawaz's source just says these panels are out-of-stock and will be available.

I certainly hope that shfawaz is right about this, but I fear that Archer6 may be on to something here. If you look at the offerings of all of the major notebook manufacturers (Dell, HP, Sony, etc), 15" screens are just about all now widescreen. A couple of small 'specialty' companies offer a smattering of standard 15" screens.

Like Archer6 I have both a T-series (mine is a T42) and a new Z60M. I bought the Z60M as a second machine, and I got it mainly because I got a very good price as it was a clearance model from Lenovo. And while I do like it overall, I do just prefer the form factor of the standard screens.

Believe it or not, I also actually prefer what used to be a 'regular' TV screen; the wide-screens, especially the big ones, just seem way too wide (horizontally) for their length (vertically). But widescreen is the wave of the future; and seems like the future is now.

I'm not planning to buy another computer until the first half of next year, at which time I'll be ready for one and also Window's new operating system will be available; I do hope that I'll be able to get a T61p (or whatever it's called) that still comes with a 4 x 3 UXGA screen.

Only time will tell.

shfawaz wrote:The official word is there is a supply constraint on the 15" 1600x1200 screen from the manufacturer according to a reliable source. Fact is, Lenovo stopped taking orders for now on models with this screen until the supply issue is resolved. No more, no less.Once supply becomes normal again, the T60p and other 15" T series models will once again be available.

True.

shfawaz wrote:And no, the T60p is definitely not discontinued by any stretch of the imagination.

While the T60p is not currently marked as discontinued it will be very soon. This is not speculation or rumor, ready or not, it's a fact.

All display manufacturers are ceasing production on 4x3 format of any size and resolution. Lenovo has no choice other than to follow along with all the other laptop mfgs and move to the widescreen form factor. They have acknowledged this and it's only a matter of time and it won't be long.

This change will happen overnight without warning, just like the somewhat recent change in the online ordering system, which took most people by surprize. And like that experience many people were caught out unprepared.

So if you need a T60p with a 1600x1200 I would get one soon, before it's too late. I know I am buying an extra one.

chrisnyc wrote:Archer6 may be on to something here.

To all of you who are having trouble accepting this (myself included) understand that if you read my other posts, you will see that I make every attempt to keep personal opinion out of it and just deal with facts in a neutral way, with a positive attitude.

I have this information from multiple, solid, trustworthy sources.

I am not sharing this information here because I have nothing better to do, than stir things up. I share it because this forum has been very valuable and beneficial to me, and I'm simply giving back.

Cheers....

Eeek. Bone chilling.

I feel like the guy who falls in love with the Swedish exchange student a month before she goes back home. The 1600x1200 screen is amazing and perfect for the work I do. A 1920x1200 widescreen would work, but I'm not looking forward to the increase in overall machine width/bulk.

Maybe I'll buy a spare T60p 15" also ...

I guess the saving grace of a 1200 x 1920 panel is that you don't lose any screen 'real estate' and in fact gain some on the width.

Correct me if I'm wrong or not understanding this, but with a WUXGA (1200 x 1920) versus a UXGA (1200 x 1600), I should get exactly the same amount of information top to bottom (vertically), even though the physical length of the panel is about an inch or so smaller, while the width is about an inch wider.

So hypothetically if I get 100 lines of text on a 1200 x 1600 panel, I should also get exactly the same number of lines on a WUXGA panel, although the print would be smaller.

Somehow I don't think this is quite right, but it's how I'm understanding it. Please let me know if I have formulated this correctly or not.

My main concern with viewing web pages is NOT having more space side to side, but having as many lines of text vertically as possible.

Chrisnyc, you are correct. I worked out the PPI for each screen in another thread, and the PPI for the widescreen is about 10% higher. But as you say, you will get the same amount of vertical information (e.g. lines of text), just compressed into a smaller physical height.

foodle wrote:Chrisnyc, you are correct. I worked out the PPI for each screen in another thread, and the PPI for the widescreen is about 10% higher. But as you say, you will get the same amount of vertical information (e.g. lines of text), just compressed into a smaller physical height.

And that 10% makes all the difference, especially when websurfing. I'm already finding I'm squinting a lot as it is with my UXGA screen with 4:3 aspect ratio. Others like Archer report that reading tiny website text is even harder on wide aspect ratio screens. I don't know about you guys but all the small text really strains my poor eyes.

As for as what Archer is reporting, I would take what he says as being pretty darn near gospel. At least judging from all the posts Archer has made in the past.

BTW, if anyone does rush out and buy the 1600x1200 screen T60p or T43p, be sure to really get the good warranty...the "Thinkpad Protection" plan one for at least three years, if not longer...

That way, if the screen cracks...they either fix it, or buy you a new laptop....even if it is "abuse"...

(even if it is stolen...with a deductible and police report)

Heck, might even get LoJack on the darn thing.

One question arises: what about FlexView (FV)? For me it's clear that FV is what I want (maybe OLED would be nice, once it's ready for primetime). Though FlexView or not isn't a question of the aspect ratio (at least technically, I'd think), while they move towards widescreen, maybe they also kick FV. Any infos on this?

Referring to the assumption mentioned above,
that Lenovo might be forced to discontinue
the proven 4:3 IPS screens by manufacturer's pressure.
I just can't belive it.
That would be the first time that a subcontracting manufacturer
would overrule customer interrests.

For my person I am happy with the 4:3 format and do not see
any advantage in a wide-screen. For reading and writing a wide-screen
does not seem to be an improvement in comparision to the increased
form factor. I wouldnt spend money on a wide-screen.

lophiomys wrote:Referring to the assumption mentioned above,
that Lenovo might be forced to discontinue
the proven 4:3 IPS screens by manufacturer's pressure.
I just can't belive it.
That would be the first time that a subcontracting manufacturer
would overrule customer interrests.

This is a market driven issue. It has nothing to do with a subcontracting mfg overruling customer interests. Quite the contrary, this is an example of the customers demanding the widescreen format. What the customers demand, the computer makers will build. It's all about sales numbers.

The only strong demand for 4x3 format displays is in the business sector which is ThinkPads playground if you will. Having spoken recently with someone who was with IBM/ThinkPad division and now Lenovo, there are hints about ongoing discussions internally of keeping the 4x3 alive.

However the challenge is cost. Dell, HP, Sony, et al, have influenced a lot of businesses and consumers that widescreen is the way to go. In the public retail / educational space the preference is also widescreen. Thus the demand is overwhelming in favor of widescreen. Just look at what's being offered. I noticed this morning viewing the HP business notebook page that there is now premium of several hundred dollars if one wants a conventional 14" 4x3 laptop. Not news to me, just noticed that the prices have shot up and the availability is collapsing further than was expected at this juncture.

My thoughts are that perhaps there will be indeed at least from Lenovo, a period where one has a choice between the two. However if the sales are not strong enough to offset what is bound to be an increase in the supplier price of 4x3 displays, we may find ourselves with widescreens like it or not.


Only time will tell....

coolsilicon wrote:One question arises: what about FlexView (FV)? For me it's clear that FV is what I want (maybe OLED would be nice, once it's ready for primetime). ...

I've also been wondering about a FlexView/ IPS offering with the move to the widescreen format. I've been lurking around this forum and others as well as doing some general searches but haven't discovered any hints on what Lenovo might offer.

Personally I would love to have the option of an IPS screen in a smaller form factor. IMHO it was unfortunate that we couldn't get a FlexView in the 14" sxga+ size. Perhaps things whill change when they go wide.

FYI - T60P WSXGA to be introduced in November. T61P WUXGA coming spring 2007. 14.1 T60P still planned to build through July 2007.

ONLY 4 THINGS!!

1. IF THAT'S TRUE ABOUT THE CEASE OF 15" UXGA SCREENS, THEN I DON'T MIND TO BUY A 15.4 WUXGA IF PLANAR CHANGED THE THINGS LIKE THAT AND MAKE IBM TO MOVE TO WIDE SCREENS LAPTOPS LIKE T SERIES. THE REAL THING IS THAT I LIKE THE SCREENS QUALITY FLEXVIEW IF CAN BE CALLLED LIKE THAT AND I DON'T CARE THE SIZE WETHER 15" OR 15.4" IN MY OPINION!

2. THE OTHER SIDE, IF IS NOT TRUE CHILL OUT THEN, WHY? BECAUSE IT CAN BE A LITTLE PROBLEM WITH THE SUPPLIES OF SCREENS REMEMBER AT THE BEGINING OF THIS YEAR 2006 THERE WAS A BIG MAJOR SHORTAGE OF 1gb RAM STICKS AND MANY MANY BACK ORDERS EXTENDED FOR UP TO 9 TO 10 WEEKS FOR A 2623 DDU SPECIALLY AND MANY PEOPLE CANCELLED THEIR ORDERS BECAUSE THE RAM STICKS MANUFACTURER's EMPLOYEES WERE OUT OF HOLLYDAYS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND ON THIS CASE IT CAN BE LIKE THE ONE I MENTIONED ABOVE AND I THING PROBLEMS LIKE THAT IS ALL ABOUT A MATTER OF TIME JUST EVERYTHING GOES BEHIND THAT'S IT !!!

MY OPINION I THINK IS NOT TRUE BECAUSE AN UNEXPECTED ADVISE ABOUT TO STOP PRODUCING SCREENS WILL COMPROMISE IBM INVENTORY FOR WARRANTY REPLACEMENTS AND THIS MEANS WHEN YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH SCREENS AND IBM CANNOT PROVIDE IT THEY HAVE TO REPLACE YOUR ENTIRE MACHINE IF NOT IBM HAS TO BUY EVERY SINGLE BACK UP SCREEN THEY SELL SOMETHING THAT I THINK IBM CANNOT AFFORD IT IS LIKE A CELLPHONE INSURANCE IF THAT PHONE IS DISCONTINUED THEY GIVE YOU ANOTHER ONE DIFFERENT OR THE SAME VALUE OF WHAT YOU PAID FOR .

3. OTHER THING: I WORK AT A RESTAURANT AND THEY STILL HAVE IBM EQUIPMENT SINCE 1993 A 13 YEAR OLD EQIPMENT!!!AND THE LAST 3 MONTHS THEY CHANGE THE MOBO ON 2 POINT OF SALE AND 1 WITH A DEAD SCREEN ALSO CHANGED WITH NO PROBLEMS IN THE SENCE OF NO BODY MAKES A 1993 MOBO AND SCREEN NEXT DAY SOLVED IT!!

4. LAST THING : OR EVERYTHING CAN BE A COMPLOT BECAUSE SOME MEMBERS OF THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO WORK FOR A RESELLER COMPANY (DEALERS) THAT MANAGES CHANNELS TO ORDER DIRECT FROM LENOVO SAY ABOUT THIS ISSUE FOR THE ONLY PURPOSE TO MAKE PEOPLE TO BUY FROM THEIR WEBSITES CLAIMING THAT ARE THE VERY LAST ONES TO FIND FOR SALE AND SELL THEIR PRODUCTS FAST. IN FACT THINKPADS ARE MADE FOR BUSSINESS!!!
15" IPS FLEXVIEW ARE VERY DEPENDABLE FOR INDUSTRIAL PROGRAMS, SO THAT'S WHY THEY HAVE THE LINE OF WIDE SCREENS LIKE THE Z- SERIES AND SOME MODELS ARE A HIGH ENDED. T- SERIES ARE NOT MADE FOR MULTIMEDIA THAT'S WHY DO NOT SUPPORT FIREWIRE AND S-VIDEO SO THE Z- SERIES HAS IT AND BY THE WAY IF THEY PLANING TO MAKE A T-SERIES WIDESCREEN FOR SURE IT WILL BE MORE HEAVIER THAN THE 15" .

THIS IS WHY THINKPADS HAVE LINE OF DIFFERENT FIELD OR TYPE OF WORK IN SERIES LIKE Z- R - T - X ALL IN ONE TOGETHER YOU CAN'T !!!!!! HAVE IT !!!!!!

IF SOMEONE GET OFFENDED ABOUT WHAT I SAID MY ANSWER IS THAT I WROTE POINTS OF VIEW OF THE CAUSES OF THIS PROBLEM !!! BECAUSE I NEVER PUT MEMBER NAMES AND COMPANIES NAMES!! !!!

Note to creed_mty. Please do not type in all Caps. It is hard to read, and is not appreciated on forum posts (including forums other than forum.thinkpads.com).

Note to creed_mty:

Do your homework please before sounding off about people posting here just to try to sell more product from their websites. BOE Hydis was the glass supplier for all T60P UXGA panels, and they filed bankruptcy last month, causing an immediate halt to production. The Korean based company, a division of BOE based in China, will not be making payments to any components suppliers or dealers. They presented a creditor restructing and repayment plan in August, and was quickly rejected, leading to the bankruptcy filing.

Regarding supply of the displays, there are enough units for warranty/thinkplus protection coverage. They are also looking at possibly using the remaining supply of displays for the end of production T43P to complete several corporate roll outs.

What the hell does "more heavier" mean? Maybe you'll understand what I'm saying if I say it like this:

NO MORE ALL GONE GLASS SUPLY MEANS NO ANY MORE DISPLAIS FOR THE THE T60P UXGA LENNOVA DOESN'T HAVE SO THEY CAN'T MAKE SO IF THEY CAN'T MAKE YOU CAN'T BUY AND IF YOU CAN'T BUY THEN YOU HAVE TO BUY SOMETHING OTHER ELSE THEN LENOVO CAN'T MAKE SINCE YOU WON'T BUY CAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE NO MORE ANY MORE!!! DUE U UNDERSTAND?

kjjb0204 wrote:NO MORE ALL GONE GLASS SUPLY MEANS NO ANY MORE DISPLAIS FOR THE THE T60P UXGA LENNOVA DOESN'T HAVE SO THEY CAN'T MAKE SO IF THEY CAN'T MAKE YOU CAN'T BUY AND IF YOU CAN'T BUY THEN YOU HAVE TO BUY SOMETHING OTHER ELSE THEN LENOVO CAN'T MAKE SINCE YOU WON'T BUY CAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE NO MORE ANY MORE!!! DUE U UNDERSTAND?

I laughed so hard reading your post that everyone in the office was looking at me.

I understand your replies if the displays companies went to bankrupcy well that's sad !!! and means no way!!!

my previous post I only put 4 possible ways that can cause this display issue! something that I NEVER confirm on any of this ways was true !! so i gave OPTIONS and you select that fit with you including to be TOTALLY DISAGREE in my post and I KNOW very good that "for the T60P UXGA LENNOVA doesn't have so they can't make so if they can't make you can't buy and if you can buy then you have to buy something other else than lenovo can't make sice you won't buy 'cause they can't make no more anymoere" !!

maybe I was wrong about the warranty replaces I recognize that!!
but I put a very good example what happens with cell phones that is also part of electronics!!!

FYI - T60P WSXGA to be introduced in November. T61P WUXGA coming spring 2007. 14.1 T60P still planned to build through July 2007.

Can't wait for spring ..

RonS wrote:I laughed so hard reading your post that everyone in the office was looking at me.

That makes two of us...

No, no...Make that three; I suspect there are more as well.

C'mon guys - not every forum member speaks or write English fluently. Don't make fun.