T60P with 15" UXGA ALL GOING AWAY

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chrisnyc · #91 Post by **chrisnyc** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:32 am

Are IPS panels, including high-resolution ones (UXGA and SXGA+) available from other manufacturers?

Aren't Dell and HP's non-glossy high-end high-resolution panels, based on IPS technology? All the manufacturers use a different name for these displays, but they tout the wide viewing angles you get with an IPS display.

This discussion is a little too technical for me, but as a practical matter, Lenovo is barely even offering any SXGA+ displays on the 15" T60's, much less the UXGA displays many of us want. And without fully understanding the underlying technology, I can see clearly with my own eyes the clearer, better-quality of the SXGA+ and UXGA screens, compared to the XGA ones. Somehow though the glossy XGA screens I've seen in stores seem to look very nice.

My T42 has an SXGA+ IPS screen, which is great. I did not get the UXGA screen because that would have required buying a T42p which was hundreds of dollars more. In retrospect I wish I had gotten the T42p, but the SXGA+ screen is still a great one.

For me the display is the most important component. Surely Lenovo will be offering more high-end panels soon, don't you think?

seeplus · #92 Post by **seeplus** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:42 pm

Even BOE has shifted away from IPS and developed newer, better Fringe displays.

I don't know.. most new panels seem to be MVA or PVA (and TFT on laptops), which cannot approach the visual/color quality of an S-IPS display, the new(er) form of naturally-slow-to-refresh IPS technology.

I'm writing this on a 23" wuxga Sony S-IPS display; the colors look as good as or better than on my older CRTs. I would kill to have a display of this quality in a thinkpad. Isn't "fringe projection" technology used to make holograms from an LCD?

More information on LCD Panels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

Puppy · #93 Post by **Puppy** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:09 pm

chrisnyc wrote:Aren't Dell and HP's non-glossy high-end high-resolution panels, based on IPS technology?

AFAIK no. It is all TN crap. Only IBM/Lenovo has (had ???) a courage to deliver decent displays. Others seems to be focused on "playstation" features instead of machine you can seriously use without getting sick looking on such ugly displays.

My old R51 (Dothan 1.6GHz) was more than twice as expensive as current top R60 configuration. Still, I wouldn't exchange it because the essential component - the panel is worthless on R60 (no longer IPS).

beeblebrox · #94 Post by **beeblebrox** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:33 pm

seeplus wrote:
Even BOE has shifted away from IPS and developed newer, better Fringe displays.
I don't know.. most new panels seem to be MVA or PVA (and TFT on laptops), which cannot approach the visual/color quality of an S-IPS display, the new(er) form of naturally-slow-to-refresh IPS technology.

I

More information on LCD Panels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

What a nonsense!
At my desktop configuration I am using a 19" Samsung 193p screen on DVI. It is an a-siTFT/PVA display.
IT SIMPLY BLOWS THE IPS AWAY!
Contrast ratio is around 1000:1 and color reproduction is just outstanding. The newest PVA successor uses LEDs for background light and pixel overdrive, which probably will be the new reference class for TFTs.

IPS is getting old, sucks a lot of power, is heavy and expensive and contrast could be better with newer technology.
Another problem ist the "burn in", when crystals are stuck in the electric field and don't move anymore. I have seen this myself several times at T42p's. The picture looks completely washed out.

seeplus · #95 Post by **seeplus** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:07 am

Though I haven't seen a 193p, I used to own its' predecessor (Samsung 192T) It's a great monitor, to be sure! PVA panels do offer the highest contrast and quick response, but sacrifice color accuracy and suffer from input lag problems inherent to the technology. For my needs, color accuracy is paramount.

IT SIMPLY BLOWS THE IPS AWAY!

... if you're referring to the Hydis IPS displays in Thinkpads, I absolutely agree. I have yet to see *any* laptop panel, ips or not, that can compare to a modern, high end desktop LCD. Apples to oranges as a result of power requirements, etc. Not to mention there have only been a handful of quality-minded laptop LCD panels ever manufactured.

The newest PVA successor uses LEDs for background light and pixel overdrive, which probably will be the new reference class for TFTs.

LED's as backlight will definitely be the future.. the only two LED backlit LCD panels I know of are manufactured by NEC for color-critical applications, cost >$6k, and use an SA-IPS panel

NathanA · #96 Post by **NathanA** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:37 am

beeblebrox wrote: What a nonsense!

[snip]

IPS is getting old, sucks a lot of power, is heavy and expensive and contrast could be better with newer technology.

...and yet, as I tried to point out in my last post (which sadly did not receive a response

), IPS, up until the time it was discontinued, was the best you could do on a ThinkPad. Now the best you can do is "TN crap." So by retiring IPS as a ThinkPad option, we actually went *backwards* (an argument that I think even you would have a hard time disagreeing with). Never mind the fact that we went backwards on resolution options, as well, which in my mind is still the bigger issue.

Until we see PVA offered *on* *a* *ThinkPad*, this discussion is pretty much pointless.

Who cares if it exists if you can't get it in the product or form factor you want it in?

Not only that, but although colors might look vibrant and stunning on a high-contrast display technology like PVA, it appears that not everyone is in agreement on how accurate the color rendering is. I would really, honestly, sincerely like to know how true that statement is on Wikipedia's LCD article. If it's wrong, someone (maybe from here?) should point this out to the staff there and offer to rewrite it!

-- Nathan

kjjb0204 · #97 Post by **kjjb0204** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:28 am

NathanA -

Who said IPS on ThinkPads was discontinued? All of these models still have a 15" SXGA+ IPS display.......

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These are readily available models. Where did you see that IPS was discontinued? All of these in tabook and lots of stock in the channel.

WPWoodJr · #98 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:16 pm

My salesrep tells me the T60p widescreen will be announced Dec 1, with a 15.4 inch 1680x1050 widescreen IPS display.

#99 Post by **BillMorrow** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:24 pm

the OP said the 15 inch 1200x1600 IPS display was going away..

since i am on dialup at my ranch in georgia i don't have the bandwidth to look up those models listed above, BUT

there never WAS a 14 inch IPS display.. only 15 inch sxga+ and uxga.. 1050x1400 & 1200x1600..

MountainMan · #100 Post by **MountainMan** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:14 pm

BillMorrow wrote:there never WAS a 14 inch IPS display.. only 15 inch sxga+ and uxga.. 1050x1400 & 1200x1600..

oddly, the lenovo outlet lists a T43 with a 14" IPS display. i assume it's a typo.

christopher_wolf · #101 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:24 pm

That is a typo, there really never was a 14" IPS display, even on the T series; that used to be a subject of significant discussion in the T4X Conference.

Never figured out just why that was the case, though.

chrisnyc · #102 Post by **chrisnyc** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:57 pm

A couple of questions to follow up on this post about the availability of 15" UXGA screens :

First -- even though there are some 15" T60 Flexview SXGA+ models available -- I'm not talking about ones listed in the tabook rather ones listed on Lenovo's web site as available for purchase -- they are few and far between, only one or two, and none are top-of-the-line models (for example, no multiburner).

What gives with this? When is a full complement of 15" T60's (or their sucessors) going to be available? Will we have to wait for next year (just a couple months away now) when Windows Vista comes out?

Second -- aside from Lenovo, what current notebooks are available from other manufacturers (Dell, Sony, HP, Toshiba, etc), that have UXGA screens that are comparable -- not necessarily identical -- to the UXGA Flexview. and how are they different? I'm not just referring to "glossy" vs. "matte", I also want to know about viewing angle, brightness, fidelity, etc.

I'd appreciate if anyone can shed some light on these two questions.

Thanks !

#103 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:31 pm

seeplus wrote:I don't know.. most new panels seem to be MVA or PVA (and TFT on laptops), which cannot approach the visual/color quality of an S-IPS display, the new(er) form of naturally-slow-to-refresh IPS technology.

It looks like a fair percentage of the 20" 4:3 external monitors are IPS-based -- even my Dell 2001FP is IPS (no wonder it looks better than my X31, then!). Smaller panels are mostly not IPS, though.

kjjb0204 · #104 Post by **kjjb0204** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:23 pm

Can someone make this a sticky? Every day there's at least two posts regarding availability of a T60P with UXGA. This post answers all of that.

T60P with 15" UXGA ALL GOING AWAY

T60p widescreen

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