Thinkpads Forum

I agree with andyp that it would be a surprise that Lenovo shipped out a battery on a recall list. But if there is any doubt, call them and get a replacement. The whole manufacturing, assembling, inventory and shipping process could be a problem when shipping so many computers.
AND, Lenovo did get the contract for the Olympics and this may also have some impact on who knows what.

has any1 got a phone number of that recall center?

the problem is: i bought my battery second hand, and now its broken down and it seems its been affected by the battery recall

if i check the battery with the battery tool it just says:

Battery Bar Code:11S92P1132Z1ZB5S66E198
An order is already in process for this battery. 2007-04-05

Why am I getting this message?.

Click here for a list of worldwide support center phone numbers.

it seems the battery was replaced and i have the old one .. but the seller seems to have no idea?!

i now wanna find out the adress where the new one has shipped, if it was the seller i have got the battery from i will inform police because of selling defect/dangerous things

i tried to contact lenovo austria and lenovo germany but they just said they cant help me because everything of that recall is on the website

can anybode help me?

As a layperson, i wonder whether it's absolutely necessary to find out whom the replacement battery was sent to. Fact is that the seller sold you a battery without telling you that it's defective, so you had to assume that the battery was without faults. You then found out that the battery is defective. I suppose that this means, that the battery doesn't have the warranted quality.

The Consumer Protection Department (Konsumentenschutz) in the Kammer für Arbeiter und Angestellte in your federal state should be able to tell you about your rights concerning merchandise that doesn't meet the warranted quality.

The person that sold the battery to you might claim that he or she didn't know that the battery was defective. I don't know whether this relieves him or her of his/her responsibilities.

I guess that you might be entitled to conversion (Wandlung), i.e. you return the battery to the seller and he or she gives you the money back.

andyP wrote:I doubt very much that Lenovo would be shipping new TPs with old defective batteries, also the X61 isn't on the list of TPs affected on the recall site.
I think you'll be OK

Don't doubt it. The battery I purchased, directly from Lenovo in July 2009, to replace the original that came with my T60, was on the defective battery list. It died Friday. They're sending me another.

My battery just died literally 5 minutes ago. Did this recall end? How would I go about seeing whether mine was included?

T23FUN wrote:I agree with andyp that it would be a surprise that Lenovo shipped out a battery on a recall list. But if there is any doubt, call them and get a replacement. The whole manufacturing, assembling, inventory and shipping process could be a problem when shipping so many computers.
AND, Lenovo did get the contract for the Olympics and this may also have some impact on who knows what.

Aloha! I realize this post is a few years back but i can assure you they did it with our T61! Our warranty just ran out a few months ago but since we've been struggling so hard to get back on our feet after surviving a disaster (katrina) we've only now gotten around to really testing the battery. No exaggeration, this laptop hasn't been off of the AC more than 7 times...if that. And for the most part, when it was off the adapter, it was only for very short periods. This part no. was on their list of effected batteries. What ticks me off is they no longer will replace this since the recall has "expired". So now i've got this fantastic laptop with no battery. It will charge up to 100% and show "good" in the battery app (in spite of the settings that are supposed to STOP charging at 80% and start at 20%). Then when i disconnect power it shows 4 hours or so but in less than 2 minutes it's toast...dead. And amazingly, it will now charge in a few minutes!!!!!!!!!! But of course it isn't charged at all...

I've called all over to see if someone will help us with this. Initially they seem to want to help but route the call all over and then end up telling me we must purchase a new one, apologize and say "have a nice day."

Is there any way i could somehow try to refurbish this myself and/or if not, what are the methods whereby if we must purchase we don't end up with another Sony?

I apologize if this has been covered and covered again, but i honestly didn't find anything that related to my problem. I'm thinking of writing a letter to Corporate about this. It's bad enough we didn't get a dime from government for what happened, but i got severe sticker shock when i discovered how much these batteries cost!

Thanks to everyone for any suggestions

EAkamai wrote:we've only now gotten around to really testing the battery.

Your battery is probably at end of life by now anyway for the sort of usage you have described, so expecting it to be replaced by the manufacturer for any reason is naive, at best.

Your battery is probably at end of life by now anyway for the sort of usage you have described, so expecting it to be replaced by the manufacturer for any reason is naive, at best.

So keeping it on AC (not using without being on the grid) is usage that depletes the battery that much?! Are you then saying that we should have just removed it since we were not using it off the grid, and then it would be ok today? We hardly used the system when we first got it (was in storage 'till we could get a place). If the above isn't true, then the laptop was shipped with a defective battery and should be replaced.

In other words...

End of life?! How could it be at end of life when it didn't even have much of a life?!

EAkamai wrote:So keeping it on AC (not using without being on the grid) is usage that depletes the battery that much?!

I don't know for how long you have used the battery. I have a 6-cell battery for a standard aspect ratio T61, that has been in use for 2.7 years. The notebook is normally on AC, and i keep the battery in the notebook all the time. It still holds more than 99.6% of design capacity. I'm fully aware that its capacity can diminish very fast at any time in the future. The disadvantage with keeping the battery in the notebook is that it gets hot, and heat degrades the battery. You could try to recalibrate your battery.

TTY wrote:I don't know for how long you have used the battery. I have a 6-cell battery for a standard aspect ratio T61, that has been in use for 2.7 years. The notebook is normally on AC, and i keep the battery in the notebook all the time. It still holds more than 99.6% of design capacity. I'm fully aware that its capacity can diminish very fast at any time in the future. The disadvantage with keeping the battery in the notebook is that it gets hot, and heat degrades the battery. You could try to recalibrate your battery.

Aloha TTY! Well, i appreciate my first CONSTRUCTIVE response. Frankly i don't appreciate being called "naive" and even more frankly, anyone calling this former decorated combat Marine ('Nam Theater) that to my face, would Truly BE naive... Fact is, TTY, we never really got to use this much at all. It was shortly about the time i first posted to this Forum that we got the chance to crank it up. I do remember ONE TIME where i had hooked it up at a different location, plugged it into an APC Line-R 1200 and left it play music - i wondered why it somehow ran all the way down into Standby when - duhhhhhh - i had forgot to turn the darn Line-R on so it had been on battery all the time. It did last hours. But after running all the way down that one time, BAM!, it is hosed.

This system is *never* plugged into anything but a full on APC SmartUPS or the Line-R. I am interested in recalibration and i'll not bother asking about it here. I'll search around and see what i can find. I'm not a stranger to IT but not big with mobile stuff. We were supposed to be able to use this TPad for work after the company along with ourselves were wiped out in the hurricane but i'm not sure we'll ever fully recover from that.

It seems more than a bit suspicious that after only a few times off the grid and only one time it ran all the way down that it is now only good for a paper weight. Perhaps - according to Bill it chocks up "usage" even when it sits in storage? I'm getting in touch with the original sales people about this as per the parts guy and see. I'll also look into recalibration. But i have one more question if anyone would be kind enough to help me with?

Parts guy in Argentina claims the only replacement for this is a (ugh) Sony. Well please excuse me if that word related to the word "battery" leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Is there any way to get a Panasonic [or is Sanyo better?] for this non-wide screen 14.1" T61? On the other hand, you'd think that after so many recalls that Sony would have gotten it together by now and produced something better than what we got with this?! Either way, we are desperately needing a battery now.

Thanks again for any [constructive] input and ideas.

As you say that you have a Sony battery, i suppose it's a 6-cell. I found this on Lenovo's support site:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... ATT-082009

It might be that this battery exchange program doesn't cover batteries, that were delivered together with the notebook. It seems to cover batteries, that were bought as accessories. For batteries, that came together with the notebook, one might be stuck with the one year - and by now expired - warranty.

Have you run the diagnostic tool that they offer on that page?

If you have the 6-cell Sony, i wouldn't put too high hopes in recalibrating the battery. If you want to recalibrate it, you can find information on how to do that in ThinkVantage Power Manager's help (click the green question mark on the top right in Power Manager). While recalibrating, it's important not to use the notebook for any work.

The Service part FRU (Field Replacement Unit) number for a 6-cell Panasonic for a standard aspect ratio T61 is 92P1139. The Service part FRU numbers for 6-cell Sanyo batteries are 92P1137 and 42T4504. You could ask a Lenovo reseller if they can order these part numbers. You can locate a reseller through Lenovo's homepage http://lenovo.com.

The marketing part number for a 6-cell (non-wide T61) is 40Y6799. For this part, they don't specify the battery manufacturer, so it's the luck of the draw what you get. It might well be, that the information that you have been given, that these replacement batteries are manufactured by Sony, is correct. It comes with a one year warranty, so you'll get it replaced if it should fail within the first year. Newegg in the U.S. sell them for $ 139.99. There might be cheaper retailers. Lenovo's internet site for your country might have a list of retailers and resellers.

If you want to consider a 9-cell battery, the Panasonic service part FRU number is 92P1133, the Sanyo part numbers are 92P1131 and 42T4511, the marketing - with no specified manufacturer - part number is 40Y6797. Sometimes, the additional charge for a 9-cell isn't that much.

As for the statement that batteries would degrade just by being stored: i have heard that too. On the other hand, i've seen NOS (new old stock) batteries being sold in this forum's marketplace for T40 models. These batteries were several years old. And their capacity was just a few Wh off design capacity.

TTY wrote:As for the statement that batteries would degrade just by being stored: i have heard that too. On the other hand, i've seen NOS (new old stock) batteries being sold in this forum's marketplace for T40 models. These batteries were several years old. And their capacity was just a few Wh off design capacity.

One thing to remember is that if the battery is stored at ~40% capacity and kept cool, it will last longer without degrading. It is also possible that the batteries started degrading sooner after they started being used.

About your battery situation EAkamai, one thing is that the T6x with powermanager will only charge the battery when it drops to less than 96%. keeping a battery topped up is hard on it and will cause it to loose capacity, which is caused by an irriversable chemical reaction in the battery, giving it a definite lifespan. In order to get around that, powermanager has options to change when the battery charges - I would set them in the range between 35% and 45%, then if you need to use the system on battery, disable that and charge the battery all the way.

TTY wrote:As you say that you have a Sony battery, i suppose it's a 6-cell. I found this on Lenovo's support site:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... ATT-082009

It might be that this battery exchange program doesn't cover batteries, that were delivered together with the notebook. It seems to cover batteries, that were bought as accessories. For batteries, that came together with the notebook, one might be stuck with the one year - and by now expired - warranty.

Have you run the diagnostic tool that they offer on that page?

Yes, it is the 6 volt and yes i TRIED to run the tool, but it refused to run with a 'over 12 mos old - does not qualify for replacement' error. (Can't remember exact wording but thats close).

"The Service part FRU (Field Replacement Unit) number for a 6-cell Panasonic for a standard aspect ratio T61 is 92P1139. If you want to consider a 9-cell battery, the Panasonic service part FRU number is 92P1133"

Here's what comes up on Lenovo's site no matter how i search for it: "No results were found for your search "92P1139 [and 92P1133]." Of course a global search comes up with many companies with various prices... can *any* of those be trusted to provide a quality battery? I might try recalibrating but i won't get my hopes up after the reading I've done.

Thanks again TTY!

craigmontHunter wrote:One thing to remember is that if the battery is stored at ~40% capacity and kept cool, it will last longer without degrading. It is also possible that the batteries started degrading sooner after they started being used.

About your battery situation EAkamai, one thing is that the T6x with powermanager will only charge the battery when it drops to less than 96%. keeping a battery topped up is hard on it and will cause it to loose capacity, which is caused by an irriversable chemical reaction in the battery, giving it a definite lifespan. In order to get around that, powermanager has options to change when the battery charges - I would set them in the range between 35% and 45%, then if you need to use the system on battery, disable that and charge the battery all the way.

Probably the best thing for us would have been to completely remove it or make sure the pwr manager is setup up like you say then? Only after i posted my question about the Pwr Manager [on these Forums] did i set it to start charging when below 20% and end charging when it reached 80%. By then we'd had the laptop out to use only a few months (maybe around 8-9 mos? guessing here). You're saying in the future to set these figures @ 35% and 45% ?

Well, first we got to get a decent battery to start with. Thank you for your response and info!

EAkamai wrote:Here's what comes up on Lenovo's site no matter how i search for it: "No results were found for your search "92P1139 [and 92P1133]."

Here's the source for these part numbers:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-68420

There was a post in this forum, that in one case, not even an authorized Lenovo dealer could order a 9-cell Panansonic battery for a T60 any longer. But i suppose it can't hurt to at least ask an authorized Lenovo service provider if he or she can order the part.

EAkamai wrote:So keeping it on AC (not using without being on the grid) is usage that depletes the battery that much?!

TTY wrote:I don't know for how long you have used the battery. I have a 6-cell battery for a standard aspect ratio T61, that has been in use for 2.7 years. The notebook is normally on AC, and i keep the battery in the notebook all the time. It still holds more than 99.6% of design capacity. I'm fully aware that its capacity can diminish very fast at any time in the future. The disadvantage with keeping the battery in the notebook is that it gets hot, and heat degrades the battery. You could try to recalibrate your battery.

TTY - Can you please post which Batter you have - Brand (Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic etc) and Part / Model / Batch numbers specific to the Battery not the IBM/Lenovo Part / FRU numbers? (Unless you the Lenovo part numbers are unique for Different battery manufacturers).

ALSO - What settings have you used / and are using on the Thinkpad Power Manager in terms of charging?

The battery is a 6-cell Sanyo, the ASM (assembly?) part number is 92P1138. The corresponding FRU part number is 42T4504. I didn't see any batch number last time i had it out. At least the FRU number is unique for Sanyo. I set charge level thresholds to 2% and 80%. I recently raised the lower threshold to 10%, in order to have some reserve in case of power outage. When more than three months have passed since the battery was charged to 100%, i raise the upper charge level threshold to 100% as suggested in Power Manager's help. The battery has been recalibrated. I suppose that the reason for the necessity to recalibrate was that i didn't charge the battery to 100% when it charged the first time. I had to recalibrate twice, as i didn't do it right on first attempt.

TTY, i thank you very much for your information. I will call the parts guys up and see what i can find that's available.

I just wanted to add some more of my 2 cents here about my disgust for what i feel was either a defective or far inferior battery sold ORIGINALLY WITH this T61. I have used APC SmartUPS for many years. I find it difficult to understand why these batteries (both sold WITH the original units and/or replacements from companies like American Battery Company) are so much better and last so much longer than what i'm seeing with this Lithium laptop batteries. Perhaps i'm not fully cognizant of the technology and if there are significant differences. I've never looked into this so i can't say. I do remember commenting to an APC rep one time about this very issue, and that was before we were able to get this T61. I also remember our battery recycle guy (owner of local recycling company) commenting about how "special" these UPS batteries were but i never did get the details. I'd already read where so many people were not happy with their laptop battery's performance and lifespan.

For instance, with the 1500VA tower unit we get an average of 4+ years on a battery. This bugga is usually running 24/7. Replacement batteries used to run us only $75 (approx - until recently they raised their prices to around $90). The bottom line is how can they produce such a battery that lasts so many years without fail/hassle and for so little and they didn't provide a battery with anywhere near this quality with the T61? Just a cursory look around the web forums shows that we are in no way the only ones having this problem and it surely isn't limited to Lenovo laptops. Replacement battery for T61 will be at minimum $140 from Lenovo and only a 1 year warranty. God knows what kind of life i'll actually have with it. My UPS replacements have a 2 year warranty and last more than twice that long at almost half the price and I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE that it WILL last a long time.

Inquiring minds would like to know why?!

EAkamai wrote:<snipped> Inquiring minds would like to know why?!

I believe you're comparing apples to oranges, although I usually avoid cliches like the plague . IIRC, UPS batteries are lead-acid, like an automobile's; completely different technology and characteristics. I just replaced the battery on my six-year-old car last month and might have been able to squeeze one more winter out of it if I wanted to live dangerously. Car batteries do a lot harder job than those in computers, I dare say. There are always trade-offs. Would you like a small car battery in your laptop? Lead and acid and the attendant heft? I doubt it. Lithium ion is the best current (sorry ) choice for laptops; better than NIMH and way better than Ni-Cad. The technology continues to improve and evolve. But batteries wear out whether they are used or not. The best we can do is maximize their life by taking good care of them. We could only conclude your original battery was defective if it had been used regularly during the warranty period and did not behave as expected.

BeeJayEmm wrote:I believe you're comparing apples to oranges, although I usually avoid cliches like the plague . IIRC, UPS batteries are lead-acid, like an automobile's; completely different technology and characteristics.

BINGO! and duhhhh i should have known that was what the guy was referring to. Thanks for bringing me back to reality BeeJay! I had asked him about our car battery and why it was still so strong after 8 YEARS. He told me that Hyundai uses a special battery and that you couldn't even buy anything like it in the normal outlets (Sears, Walmart, AutoZone etc...). I'm stunned about that battery. Most all car batteries we've bought last at most about 4 years or less. So you must have one like our Santa Fe. Original in 2002 and still kicking okole!
======================================
First i want to thank all those who have responded, and the forum in general for providing such an amazing place to hash/learn and enlighten.

Secondly, i've recalibrated / reset gauge (as they seem to also refer to this process). Here's what i've found after re-calibrating:

Full Charge Capacity = 56.16 Wh (seems pretty low?)
18 Cycles
Temp started at 33C - and went to no more than 34C during the following test:

After 22 Min without AC = 93% remaining (sure beats just a few MINUTES)
34 Min = 89% remaining - 49.67 Wh
45 Min = 85% remaining - 47.50 Wh

I shut it down and yanked it out to store @ 84% remaining. Let it sit to cool it off (it wasn't hot at all), wrapped in static bag and then ziplock bag and stuck it in the refrig like i've read so many places others do when they are not going to need it for awhile. Hope that will help preserve it as they seem to suggest it does. Thanks to TTY - i learned that after re-inserting i need to power on without AC attached so the power mgt settings stick. Hope i understood that correctly (read it in another thread).

At 84%, PwrMGT app indicated 4:14 remaining and the (M$?) icon in SysTray indicated 4.03 hrs remaining. Throughout this whole time the system tray icon displayed slightly less remaining than the IBM app - guess this is normal? The readings were crazy tho. Started out at a ridiculous 5.x hours and dropped immediately down to 4.5 and went steadily down from there. It would occasionally jump higher but mostly it went steadily down. I realize that is contingent on system usage.

Either way, it doesn't seem possible that time remaining was accurate as it seemed to be going down pretty quick. I was not doing anything or running anything except notepad to make notes AND the power mgr app. Theme was set at "Power Source Optimized" which dimmed display considerably and mostly i just shut the lid to shut off display. It just didn't "feel" like there was anywhere near 4 hours left.

If i wasn't such a basket case in math i could figure that out although i suppose it still may not be accurate because the ratio of time used to time remaining may change during actual real world depletion. Guess one would have to let it deplete totally to know for sure (didn't want to do that). It is definitely different/better than only a few MINUTES like before. Is it possible that resetting gauge (or re-calibrate?) would make this difference?

Can anyone tell me whether the numbers above are really bad or are they OK? Am I storing it ok? No matter, i still would like to get a new 9 cell as i'm (finally) needing to officially take this on the road.

Thanks to everyone for being so helpful.

EAkamai wrote:Full Charge Capacity = 56.16 Wh (seems pretty low?)

56.16 Wh is very good for the 6-cell. It's equal to design capacity.

Throughout this whole time the system tray icon displayed slightly less remaining than the IBM app - guess this is normal?

Yes. I think that the system tray icon is part of the operating system, as opposed to the ThinkVantage Power Manager. Two different applications. I believe i read that Lenovo's application utilizes some circuitry that is located in the battery itself. Lenovo says that their application is more accurate than Microsoft's, and i believe them.

Either way, it doesn't seem possible that time remaining was accurate as it seemed to be going down pretty quick.

If you had 85% capacity left after 45 minutes, it means that total capacity would be 300 min or 5 h. That's very good. The 6-cell T61 batteries were originally specified to last up to 5.7 h by Lenovo, so if you can get 5 h out of a battery, that's several years old and has 18 cycles, that's excellent.

Is it possible that resetting gauge (or re-calibrate?) would make this difference?

I never saw any information from Lenovo about what was actually wrong with these batteries or whether or how it might be corrected. So it might well be that it just took re-calibrating to revive the battery. But one should be prepared that capacity could drop rapidly again. The only solution in that case will probably be to buy a new one. Only time can tell.

... i learned that after re-inserting i need to power on without AC attached so the power mgt settings stick. Hope i understood that correctly

Yes. When storing the battery outside the notebook, it should have less than 50% charge. I haven't read much on optimal conditions for battery storage. Not knowing much about it, i would still have some doubts about storing it in a refrigerator. The reason is that air at room temperature contains humidity. Some of that air gets into the plastic bag that you use for storage. When that air gets cold, its ability to hold humidity is reduced. So with some bad luck, much of the air's humidity could condense, forming drops of water on the battery's electric contacts. And over time, that will mean corrosion. And corroded contacts are not a good thing. But i have never tried it. Others might have tried it and might have seen no problems. The temperature of my battery, when it's in the notebook and the notebook is turned on, is ~ 31°C. So storing the battery outside the notebook at room temperature is probably a huge improvement.

As for the price difference to the battery in the USP: the Lithium-Ion batteries that are used in notebooks are good at storing substantial amounts of energy at low weight. A 6-cell ThinkPad battery can store 75 Wh/lb, a typical lead-acid battery can store 16 Wh/lb. So when we pay more for notebook batteries, we pay for that improved performance.

Aloha TTY!

Thanks for such detailed response. After reading that you deplete battery below 50% before storing (I also read further documentation on that in numerous places) i re-inserted and started depleting. It got to around 60% and I realized i had forgot about an important appointment. I thought about shutting down and doing it later but then i thought why not just start up some more apps and see if it will deplete faster? I cranked up PowerDVD and began to play movie from hdd. IN LESS THAN A MINUTE it depleted from 60% (when i opened PowerDVD) to 7% and by the time i was able to shut down it was down to only 1%. Now i am convinced that something is wacky with this battery.

I called to see if any of the part no.s you referred me to are available... NO DICE. No ETA etc. The only one they have is for a Sony P/N 42T4619 and the warranty is only 90 days for a purchase price of approx $147.00 + ship. He can't tell me the manufacturing date, Wh ratiing, how long it's been on the shelf or anything else. This is NUTS.

I'm now going to look for a company known to provide quality products and offer at least a year warranty. If anyone knows of such a company, please let me know. I don't feel comfortable to pay so much from Lenovo with only a 90 day warranty for a product he admits is not sure how long it sat on a shelf. If a reputable company offers compatible or even branded Lenovo substitutes would i look for Wh ratings? Would that be the most reliable specification to be assured of the quality and the runtime of a battery?

Thanks

To judge whether your battery is botched or not, you should let it get back to room temperature before testing. A cold battery will perform miserably.

This is the product page for the 9-cell for a 8897-CTO:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67501
That page is valid worldwide, it says warranty one year. This page has the part numbers:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67502

They have different part numbers, depending on whether you want to order the battery as an accessory (marketing part number) or as an FRU. If you order it as a FRU, you should be able to specify the manufacturer. Earlier, you said

Parts guy in Argentina claims...

so i suppose you are in Argentina. If you want to order the Panasonic battery in Argentina, try this contact information:
http://www.ibm.com/planetwide/ar/

This page lists dealers in Argentina:
http://www.pc.ibm.com/ar/partner/reseller.shtml
They should at least be able to provide the 40Y6797 (manufacturer not specified), they might be able to provide the Panasonic (92P1133).

EDIT: removed remark about P/N 42T4619. Seems it would compatible with a non-wide T61.

TTY wrote:To judge whether your battery is botched or not, you should let it get back to room temperature before testing. A cold battery will perform miserably.

42T4619 is a totally wrong P/N. It's for a ThinkPad SL300 and does probably not fit in a T61. This is the product page for the 9-cell for a 8897-CTO:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67501
That page is valid worldwide, it says warranty one year. This page has the part numbers:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-67502

They have different part numbers, depending on whether you want to order the battery as an accessory (marketing part number) or as an FRU. If you order it as a FRU, you should be able to specify the manufacturer.

Thank TTY for getting back here so quick!

1. I had immediately removed battery from refrig after reading your info so it was at room temp already.

2. No, i'm in America but they keep referring me to the same place because my TPad is OOW (Out of Warranty) and it always routes to Argentina for some reason. They state that there are no FRU 92P1139, 92P1133, or even the Sanyo 92P1131 available and no ETA so cannot order. I can't seem to find anything available directly from their site to order that is compatible with non-wide screen 14.1" T61. Guess i could try to ask for the Marketing P/N and see what happens. I knew that these older 4:3 (standard) format laptops would be a problem down the road for parts (mainly the no longer manufactured LCD) but I never expected to have problems finding a battery. If that isn't bad enough, it's even more frustrating that they only offer the same 90 day warranty for a new battery that they offer on their Outlet store as refurbished?!!!!! Probably because they can't confirm how long it's been shelved. I see that most everything offered on eBay is at least a year warranty - some with 3 years. I also see some factory sealed that are manufactured this year for less than lenovo quoted me. I just don't know who manufactured it. Trying to confirm that now.

Guess i'm headed for eBay... EDIT: Factory Manufactured this year and is Panasonic w/ 1 year warranty... Guess i'll "pull the trigger". It is # 40Y6797 so it should be correct.

Thanks Again for your Wonderful Help !

EAkamai wrote:Now i am convinced that something is wacky with this battery.

Its at end of life, which is in no way surprising for the usage pattern you have described!

Cheers,

Bill B.

I realize this may be getting away from the purpose of this thread. Please move this if it needs to be moved.

I was wondering if there is really any benefit in getting two (2) of these batteries. Found Lenovo branded factory sealed Panasonic 9 cell w/ 1 year warranty. I'm thinking there isn't that much benefit because of the nature of this Li-ion batteries. I'm thinking it will be harder and harder to get a lenovo branded product (esp. Panasonic) so i thought about getting two while i can. But i realize now (only too well) that no matter what, they will degrade over time. While i have seen the benefits of having two (2) NiMH batteries for our camera, i don't think it's the same for Li-ion....

For instance, if i have (2) camera batteries (NiMH), i can fully charge both and so if one runs down and i need another right away i'm inserting almost full charge battery. Benefit is good. The NiMH batteries we use stay charged quite a while.

Whereas with Li-ion every place i look recommends you must store these at less than 50% charge. So if i have it in my laptop bag and i need to use it with the one that has run down, i'm starting with a less than 50% charged battery. Benefit is not so good. I'm thinking by having two and rotating them still wouldn't be that much benefit.

Is my thinking wrong here? Have i left out important considerations?

Thanks again for any help, ideas, thoughts and advice...

EAkamai wrote:I'm thinking by having two and rotating them still wouldn't be that much benefit.

Any benefit depends entirely on what your usage pattern is likely to be.

Basically, don't buy more than one battery unless you have a very clearly defined need for it.

Trying to keep a LiOn battery at 50% charge if you need to use it a lot for off-mains power is not a good idea. You need to be keeping it at 95% or so charge.

If you consistently need more off-mains power duration than a single battery will give you, there is a huge benefit in having a second battery... if you don't, there's pretty much no benefit.

I use 80% (lower) and 95% (upper) as the threshold limits on my ThinkPad batteries (and I don't use docking stations often), and maybe use them for about 33% of the overall usage on battery power. This typically gives me about a ~3 year useful working life for the battery. Then I replace it...... its a consumable item

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote:Trying to keep a LiOn battery at 50% charge if you need to use it a lot for off-mains power is not a good idea. You need to be keeping it at 95% or so charge.

If you consistently need more off-mains power duration than a single battery will give you, there is a huge benefit in having a second battery... if you don't, there's pretty much no benefit.

I use 80% (lower) and 95% (upper) as the threshold limits on my ThinkPad batteries

Thanks for your advice Bill! Strange, most of what i've read on preserving these batteries coincide with what TTY wrote (store @ less than 50% charge). I fully understand that with this regard, it is dependent upon the particular need [at the time] I will be using it. That makes total sense. But I wanted to combine that with trying to keep da bugga alive/usable as long as possible. According to what you wrote, we shouldn't be so worried about a battery dying out [becoming hosed] so quickly just because it's stored @ 95% charge?

I wonder why there is such disparity in this and also the charging thresholds for these batteries. I've run into everything from White papers on the storing procedures to what people recommend in various forums. But i find the most variation is in the charging thresholds. It's too bad there isn't a end all discussion thread dedicated to this that will provide a more definitive answer tailored to one's actual usage. Or perhaps there is but I somehow missed it. Now it just seems they are all over the place. From 35% - 45% to 10% - 80% to yours @ 80% - 90%. Of course you have documented this is contingent upon ones actual usage. Obviously i WAS ignorant [not "naive" ] of the fact that these batteries degrade while in the laptop whether they are off the grid or not. Now that i know this, Im wanting to make sure they last as long as possible.

Maybe Cheaper is Better?!
I can see why some have told me just order the cheap ones off of ebay and when they go it's not such a large expense. They do offer amazing 3 year warranties on them but I would really like to read the fine print on those.

FOUND OUT ABOUT THE ULTRABAY BATTERY!
There is one more consideration that I only just now came across. The fact that you can also get an ULTRABAY BATTERY?!!!!!! OK, I realize I've been in a cave about this topic . Perhaps this is the way to go? Now I'll need to find out about the storing procedures for that so that when I take it on the road, I'll get the most use out of it. I'll need to find out how much they cost compared to how much they actually help extend usage time? I suppose that has been covered in a whole different thread? Can anyone point me to where I can get pertinent info on that? OH, and then there's whether or not we can even get this from Lenovo or have the same frustration as we had trying to get a replacement [main] battery.

Thanks to everyone for providing such valuable information.

EAkamai wrote:It's too bad there isn't a end all discussion thread dedicated to this......

There are many, many discussion threads on this, both here and on other forums, and not one of them has ever reached a definitive conclusion on the topic. Its a perennial pot boiler!

The bottom line is that is DEPENDS on how you specifically use your laptop, so all of the suggestions are basically right for someone or other, but none of them are universally better than any other.

The cost of a battery is small compared to the cost of a ThinkPad. Personally, I prefer to maximise the value/utility of my whole ThinkPad package investment, rather than sweating specifically on maximising the life of a single component of the package... a component which is going to degrade over a few years no matter what I do.

YMMV

Cheers,

Bill B.