Straight 4:3 Screen or Widescreen T series?

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csioucs · #1 Post by **csioucs** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:00 am

A test of the preferences would be interesting. Later, if this turns to be encouraging we could write to Lenovo about it...

#2 Post by **GomJabbar** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:48 am

That was a good idea having a poll on this issue.

I think the customer should be able to decide.

It seems that the widescreen is becoming popular, and that is what Lenovo is going to be building in the T-series ThinkPads anyway (from what I read on this forum). However, there appear to be many die-hard conventional 4:3 T-series users on this forum. Many of these are ThinkPad users from wayback. They should not have to give up the 4:3 option.

I gave a quick test drive on on one of the widescreen Z60t's in an Office Depot near my home. The thing that struck me immediately was the virtual lack of a wristrest. I could tell right away that this would lead to wrist pain with me. Otherwise it seemed decent. If a T-series widescreen was the same size and layout as the Z60t that I saw, that is not what I would want.

You bring up a good point about traveling with a widescreen. While it is great for airline seatback trays, the widescreen formfactor creates other issues. How will it fit in a briefcase or a travel pack? I believe I may have difficulty fitting one in my briefcase - which is how I prefer to carry my ThinkPad when I travel. I would rather travel with my ThinkPad in my hard-sided briefcase, knowing it is well-protected.

In the end, I am fairly certain given the choice, that I will stick with the conventional 14.1", 4:3 formfactor, in my notebook purchases.

blackwood · #3 Post by **blackwood** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:41 am

I prefer 4:3.

So long as it's not cost prohibitive, though, I think it'd great if they'd design systems around both aspect ratios (letting the customer choose).

mattbiernat · #4 Post by **mattbiernat** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:11 pm

csioucs wrote:A test of the preferences would be interesting. Later, if this turns to be encouraging we could write to Lenovo about it...

so far i've read somewhere that 4:3 is going to become more expansive than widescreen by 2007. i fear that in 5 years all we are going to see is widescreen with no option for 4:3. that would suck... but has anyone seen a precedent that old technology was rolled back for practical purposes. maybe that will happen eventually with glossy screens.

gearguy · #5 Post by **gearguy** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:55 pm

I'm not really all that bothered what shape the screen is, as long as it's bright and clear and does what I need then it's fine imo ;p

FragrantHead · #6 Post by **FragrantHead** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:41 pm

To me a 14.1" 4:3 screen is the perfect compromise in terms of size and weight. I prefer a standard-size keyboard and that screen matches it perfectly while leaving a good wrist rest.

Some widescreen notebooks (e.g. Dell) leave space unused at the top and bottom of the lid. Now that's just silly. The lid should be filled with screen!

#7 Post by **archer6** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:34 pm

Since I also have a widescreen Z60m I feel qualified to comment from experience and a users perspective on both formats.

The current form factor of the T60 ThinkPad with a 4x3 display is ultimate for me. Once widescreen is introduced the nice, large, comfortable wrist rest will be gone. In addition battery life will be reduced. Then there is the issue of increased weight which means other components will have to be compromised if they are to target the current weight model of the T series. Finally for those of us that do design work where vertical height of the screen is as important as horizontal size, we will suffer.

On a positive note, I find the widescreen display of the Z60m to be quite nice and certainly has it's features and benefits. Again, however it's all about usage. If you are not an engineer or mainly use your computer for movies, the widescreen is certainly superior. And I can certainly appreciate it's usefulness with Excel. One noticeable downside albeit not a major one is how cumbersome a widescreen laptop feels. Simply moving for one room to another with it open or closed, the additional width makes it feel heavier and more cumbersome than a 4x3 format laptop. This also applies to carrying it in a case, however less so.

That said, I believe the optimal situation is to offer both formats to the buyers. My one concern with that, is if they are willing to produce a model like the T for example in both form factors. Obviously the display size and shape influence the case size and form. Therefore extra expense would be involved offering two completely different form factors.

Time will tell....

FlexOink · #8 Post by **FlexOink** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:56 pm

archer6 wrote:Since I also have a widescreen Z60m I feel qualified to comment from experience and a users perspective on both formats.

The current form factor of the T60 ThinkPad with a 4x3 display is ultimate for me. Once widescreen is introduced the nice, large, comfortable wrist rest will be gone. In addition battery life will be reduced. Then there is the issue of increased weight which means other components will have to be compromised if they are to target the current weight model of the T series. Finally for those of us that do design work where vertical height of the screen is as important as horizontal size, we will suffer.

On a positive note, I find the widescreen display of the Z60m to be quite nice and certainly has it's features and benefits. Again, however it's all about usage. If you are not an engineer or mainly use your computer for movies, the widescren is certainly superior. And I can certainly appreciate it's usefulness with Excel. One noticeable downside albeit not a major one is how cumbersome a widescreen laptop feels. Simply moving for one room to another with it open or closed, the additional width makes it feel heavier and more cumbersome than a 4x3 format laptop. This also applies to carrying it in a case, however less so.

That said, I believe the optimal situation is to offer both formats to the buyers. My one concern with that, is if they are willing to produce a model like the T for example in both form factors. Obviously the display size and shape influence the case size and form. Therefore extra expense would be involved offering two completely different form factors.

Time will tell....

Very good input Archer. I agree on all your points.

The reasons for me I prefere 4:3:

- It just looks better. Proportion-wise. Widescreens seem to have an unbalanced wide/with ratio. They look squished, and imho just ugly.

- Most widescreens have large framing on top and bottom, cuz the laptop is bigger than the screen. This framing just looks silly. I really like it when there is a very thin frame around a screen (T60s!).

- Widescreens are too wide for regular Eastpack backpacks. It doesnt fit well on laptop cases etc. (this will probably change, as more and more suitcase/backpack manufactures make widescreen products).

- Advantage of the 4:3 height is the palmrests are usually larger, as the case is designed to fit the laptop, and not vice-versa.

- Another thing that sux about most widescreens (tho probably not the new T-wides) is that you lose some height. 1280x800 for example is ridculous, but it is the most standard widescreen resolution out there. I mean, 800 pixels high? that is just useless, its the same as my 7 year old 1024x768 CRT!

So for me its mostly a design issue. A 4:3 really looks like a book, a widescreen looks like to chopping board to cut your veggies on.

#9 Post by **RonS** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:15 pm

The T series is a business-class machine, which lends itself better to a 4:3 format (most presentations and projectors are 4:3).

I went from a Dell Inspiron 8600 widescreen to the Thinkpad because I didn't like writing code or papers on a wide screen format. You can't see as many lines vertically on a widescreen - it drove me nuts.

chrisnyc · #10 Post by **chrisnyc** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:00 am

RonS, I just posed on the original topic on this subject (UXGA going away?), but I'll repeat here because you bring up precisely my question and concern when you say :

" ... you can't see as many lines vertically on a widescreen . . . "

What was the resolution on your Dell Inspiron 8600. If you have a WUXGA panel (1200 x 1920), shouldn't you get the same number of vertical lines, albeit with smaller print, compared to a 1200 x 1600 panel ? After all you do have the same number of vertical axis pixels.

I agree with the post that the WXGA 800 x 1280 resolution is nowhere near adequate.

zzyss · #11 Post by **zzyss** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:07 pm

I don't really understand this thread. You have no choice... widescreen T series will be inevitable... maybe before the end of the year. Heck, maybe even this month:

http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1256

#12 Post by **GomJabbar** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:36 pm

zzyss wrote:I don't really understand this thread. You have no choice... widescreen T series will be inevitable... maybe before the end of the year. Heck, maybe even this month:

http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1256

You ever hear the story about New Coke

It seemed like a good idea at the time

JHEM · #13 Post by **JHEM** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:37 pm

zzyss wrote:I don't really understand this thread. You have no choice... widescreen T series will be inevitable... maybe before the end of the year. Heck, maybe even this month.

The widescreen T offerings will not supplant all the 4:3 models.

James

Scratch · #14 Post by **Scratch** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:20 pm

From what I've been given to understand through our corporate rep...

The 15" display supplier cannot supply the units in quantity or at price. There is no option to bring on another supplier to manufacture this IPS screen. The model line is due for a processor update anyway so to supply a hi res, hi quality screen at a price competitive with the current T60 pricing, the common to the market 15.4 is being introduced to fill that gap.

The tooling for 14.1 models with 4:3 screens is already in production and there is no shortage of these panels so this package will continue to be offered for the forseeable future.

That's the long, so the short of it is: if you want a T61p in a 4:3 package then your screen size will be 14.1. If you want the larger option then it will be a 15.4 widescreen.

I have used PowerBooks and MacBook Pro's for while and find the screen to be perfectly usable for engineering CAD work. I actually prefer widescreen desktop displays as they allow more floating menu and toolbar space without detracting from the graphical workspace. This might even be the first ThinkPad with adequately sized and properly placed speakers if we're lucky.

I also find the wrist rest on the Mac designs to be more than adequate (though I bond a thin urethane to the wrist rest so my watch doesn't rattle when I work) and the screens match the machine size perfectly.

I'm going to try to "embrace the Horror" and throw my support behind the widescreen T6Xp as I think it will be another successful evolution of the ThinkPad and I want them to be around for a while.

gearguy · #15 Post by **gearguy** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:51 am

zzyss wrote:I don't really understand this thread. You have no choice... widescreen T series will be inevitable... maybe before the end of the year. Heck, maybe even this month:

http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1256

It's because many computer users (I.e., nerds) like argueing about dumb stuff like the shape of their laptop screens on forums regardless of what's inevitable or not.

#16 Post by **JaneL** » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:49 pm

mattbiernat wrote:but has anyone seen a precedent that old technology was rolled back for practical purposes. maybe that will happen eventually with glossy screens.

The current poll at Lenovo's Design Matters is about glossy vs matte.

zzyss · #17 Post by **zzyss** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:22 am

GomJabbar wrote:It seemed like a good idea at the time

JHEM wrote:The widescreen T offerings will not supplant all the 4:3 models.

gearguy wrote:It's because many computer users (I.e., nerds) like argueing about dumb stuff like the shape of their laptop screens on forums regardless of what's inevitable or not.

Hehe... fair enough. It's just that the OP made it sound like the results of the poll will help to decide the fate of the widescreen T (in favour of having one, I'm guessing). I was simply pointing out that it's not particularly necessary since the news is that it's coming out anyway.

creed_mty · #18 Post by **creed_mty** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:30 am

I'm Sorry to say this!!!!

The widescreen T idea does not fit yet in my head!! because they have already the widescreen Z with the upgrade of Z61p the same level as the T so widescreen Z and widescreen T both p Series & same level ???? so , it does not fit in my head again!!

yesterday I called lenovo they told me there was a shortage and it will take time but they still coming back & they ask me if i order today if I don't mind to wait so the word shortage it doesn't mean that will not exist anymore!!! somebody said that Hydis got in bankruptcy wich this was the reason that they are not making 15" displays , I don't think so. However, that company still in bussiness by having it's website yet:
www.boehydis.com and still making & selling products!!! the thing is that hydis is releasing new products and i think ibm has to aprove them by testing it's new performance and improvements to fully suit the T series line!! so I recommend to look at the website news about their new releases, I'm not an expertise guy but I think this issue can also interferes with the T series !!

whomung · #19 Post by **whomung** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:29 am

zzyss wrote:I don't really understand this thread. You have no choice... widescreen T series will be inevitable... maybe before the end of the year. Heck, maybe even this month:

http://www.laptoplogic.com/news/detail.php?id=1256

Lenovo is going to do everything it can to pick up market share....

17", 15.4", `15", 14", 12" any screen they can sell... no prob

and cheaper..... cheaper Thinkpads.... cheaper build, funky keyboards, and more flash.... like gateways, or dells, and then sell them at Sams Club and WalMart and Costco....

Nice if they keep the top of the line clean.... but money changes everything.....

csioucs · #20 Post by **csioucs** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:48 pm

Anathema! Be gone! Womung...how far have you been into Thinkpad?

IF Lenovo does that....man are you out of your....eh. Let us not flame here.

Lenovo marketing specialists won't do that because T is already for a user class.....there is Z series for those that need it....but as I see it they will have some poll around, because they are aware that people are having a tradition of the brand, remember the silver/back poll? And if they feel strong competition...well they have Z and R series...but the X and T series strong points have been ...premium quality, premium prices, justified traditional way.....and people love that. See just how well the silver Z series is doing...I mean that's just a niche, that was a nice try and touch, but just that. When you look at the page on lenovo.com featuring the notebooks, you realize that.

I had a 14 inch Z series around...it didn't feel right. It felt like a toy...closer to a gadget that to something else. I don't want people to think what are movies looking like on his laptop...

I use my T60 in a corporate/education/personal environment and well...some of my colleagues have widescreens toshibas and hp for most..and well the Thinkpad is not very entertainish...I see no advantage of widescreen in very obviously important segments of frequent travellers that demand nothing less than excellence: ergonomics, comfort, reliability, ease of use (here I shoud add, that most presentations that one runs are in a 4:3 environment, and to put those on a XGA screen and you are 1280x800 is a pain for beginners...some collegues always needed help "it doesn't look right...how am I to configure the output and so on..."
- computers should not make everyone of us geek, some of us enjoy it, but some like just to use them.

Yes! Stick to 4:3, 14inch or even 15inch, but 4:3 I shall.

christopher_wolf · #21 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:49 pm

They had better *not* mess with a 4:3 option on the T Series; if they want to have a Widescreen option for those who want it, *and will pay proportionally for it* (not shoulder the cost across the rest of the Thinkpads), then they can play with widescreen as much as they want....then wonder why the Z Series has a "tad" more multimedia-oriented ports (A Z Series-ish Thinkpad without the additional media support? Sounds like a great deal, am I right?

)

Semper 4:3!

csioucs · #22 Post by **csioucs** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:04 am

Amen Brother!

#23 Post by **GomJabbar** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:56 pm

Lenovo is now asking this question on their Design Matters blog.

Poll: Widescreen or Standard? Display Aspect Ratio

NTL1991 · #24 Post by **NTL1991** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:19 pm

I like the 4:3 screen ratio. It adds to the whole "Thin and Light" thing about the T series. I think a widescreen would be too bulky.

Nick

#25 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:56 am

On Lenovo's Design Matters blog, preference for widescreen displays is winning out over the traditional 4:3 displays by a ratio of 2 to 1.

perry_78 · #26 Post by **perry_78** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:20 am

That is indeed unfortunate.

4:3 aspect has a magic around it.

Clearly the best option would be a "T" series and a "Tw" series. This way people who like their 4:3 scale will be satisfied, and the more entertainment oriented buyer will be satisfied.

Just don't take the 4:3 aspect ratio from me to replace it with something crappy like the Z series..

Thought imagine what a WELL built Tw 14" could be like

SkiBunny · #27 Post by **SkiBunny** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:17 pm

RonS wrote:The T series is a business-class machine, which lends itself better to a 4:3 format (most presentations and projectors are 4:3).

I went from a Dell Inspiron 8600 widescreen to the Thinkpad because I didn't like writing code or papers on a wide screen format. You can't see as many lines vertically on a widescreen - it drove me nuts.

Yep & yep

We need HIGH screen, not freakin wide screen.

SkiBunny · #28 Post by **SkiBunny** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:22 pm

GomJabbar wrote:On Lenovo's Design Matters blog, preference for widescreen displays is winning out over the traditional 4:3 displays by a ratio of 2 to 1.

Means nothing... those are mostly votes by kids.
Companies vote with their wallets. IBM is buying 500,000 of the 4:3 t-series.
Money talks and [censored] walks.

#29 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:06 pm

SkiBunny wrote:Means nothing... those are mostly votes by kids.

And you know this how?

I am encouraged to hear that IBM is buying 500,000 of the 4:3 t-series. However the T series is only offered in 4:3 to date.

[meaning; what else would they buy?]

We'll see how the money talks when the T series is available in a widescreen model. I hope you are right.

christopher_wolf · #30 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:14 am

Whuh?

...So I guess this is the time to point out that, yes, they are mainly the "kids" that are voting based off of the idea of a widescreen being "all that". Here is where I hope they *do not* listen to the poll about 4:3 versus Widescreen. If they do, they should keep the 4:3 form factor regardless....but that costs even more money from their viewpoint. They might have tried to gauge the acceptance of widescreen from those who bought Z Series Thinkpads but, ehh, they either must not have gotten a good response or too little of a meaningful one.

*sighs and shakes head*