Thinkpads Forum

Hi good people!

I just ordered a T60 to be tested and hopefully
used for pro audio recording. I have some
questions for you seasoned T60 owners.

When it arrives next week I´m going to do
some upgrades and alot of tweaking to make
it suitable to my needs. This is what I´m
planning;

1. Upgrade the harddrive to a 7200rpm

2. Format two partions one for XP and
one for audio files.

3. Clean install a fresh english version
of XP as the laptop comes with a
Swedish XP (a bit strange perhaps as
I actually am a Swede!).

4. Special XP tweaks for music computers

5. Massive testing with my 32 channel
external firewire soundcard to see if
everything is compatible (as many laptops
do not work well for audio.)

If I have non fixable problems with audio recording I´ll put the
untouched 5400 rpm drive with the factory settings back in
and send the laptop back to the store.

Here´s my questions;

What problems may I run into if I do a
clean install with a non-lenovo XP disc?
Should I stick with the provided XP?

Does non-lenovo XP provide SATA drivers
for the hitachi 7k100?

What parts of the computer will not work
without the thinkvantage software?
Anything critical?

Also feel free to warn me if there is any stupid
newb mistake you know I´ll probably do!

Thanks!

You are in for some pain if you do it the way you described...

1) Use the factory preload. XP is so old, there are so many patches outside of SP2 and what you get with Windows Update that Lenovo incorporated into the build for stabilty. BEFORE you swap drives, burn off a set of recovery CD's from the factory preload. You can use them to rebuild the image on your 7200RPM drive. There is an icon to do this in the factory preload, assuming you have a combo drive or multiburner drive. Plus, loading an old copy of XP requires setting the system to compatibility mode, plus a bunch of other stuff....

2) Do not partition the drive the way you describe. If you are concerned about backing up your music, download and use the quite excellent current version of Rescue and Recovery from Lenovo, and get a USB hard drive...that will allow you to have an external backup of EVERYTHING...apps, data, OS....all from the primary partition

3) If you want a 7200RPM drive, make sure you use the right part number one from Lenovo, or the system can generate errors...don't use a no name drive. There are ties to the active hard drive protection system, the ability to have a hard drive password...some other items...it would be better if you just bought a T60 that came with the 7200 RPM drive....many do....or you could have just saved the extra money you spend on the drive, and have upgraded to a T60p, where just about all of them have 7200RPM drives...

4) Make sure you run the Thinkpad Software Installer on the system, so that all the drivers are current...

Most all of these items are here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62928

"Critical" items in the system are things like the XP update modules, the hotkey utility, the configuration utility (if you plan to update the BIOS)...some others....The software Installer program from the driver matrix can check out your system.

JohnDrake! Thank you for your answer!

I´ll explain my thinking and why I´m still considering doing this the hard way. Although I now have my doubts about both procedures!

I´m going to be streaming massive amounts of 24 bit audio in and out of the computer. A maximum of 32 channels to/from my harddrive and at the same time very large audio samples from the 2nd harddrive bay, to be played with a MIDI keyboard in real time. At the same time processor hungry plug-ins (reverbs and effects) will be used. Everything at extremely low latency (3 ms). Low latency is necessary for monitoring what everyone in the band plays, with effects, without delay between the note played and the note heard on headphones.

However recording at low latency demands a very stable system with absolutley no interferance from other apps or hardware devices, as these might show upp as pops and clicks in the recorded audio.

So what I´m after is quite a specific configuration that is highly optimized for pro audio and nothing else. This means no antivirus, no firewall, no internet, no office, no thinkvantage or any other app that could possibly interfere. This also includes recording audio to a separate partion for the same reasons (not for backup). So if partioning is not possible with the lenovo XP (as you recommend against it) I would rather go through some hassle with the old XP.

1) Use the factory preload. XP is so old, there are so many patches outside of SP2 and what you get with Windows Update that Lenovo incorporated into the build for stabilty.

This I don´t see as a problem as I don´t mind upgrading myself. Takes some time but I only have to do it once. When I have stable system I won´t upgrade anything. Also having a english XP version it is much easier to find solutions to any problems on the internet.

3) If you want a 7200RPM drive, make sure you use the right part number one from Lenovo, or the system can generate errors...don't use a no name drive. There are ties to the active hard drive protection system, the ability to have a hard drive password...some other items...it would be better if you just bought a T60 that came with the 7200 RPM drive

They don´t seem to have 7200rpm T60(P)´s here in Sweden and I´ve already ordered two hitachi HTS721010G9SA00 drives. The lenovo drives are really expensive and I´ve read on the forum that the hitachis work well even with the HDA protection... the hitachi drives caused errors? That doesn´t sound good...

4) Make sure you run the Thinkpad Software Installer on the system, so that all the drivers are current...

"Critical" items in the system are things like the XP update modules, the hotkey utility, the configuration utility (if you plan to update the BIOS)...some others....

Could I download the drivers manually and intall them via a CD in case the T60 has trouble connecting to internet on old XP? Could I install the "critical" items the same way via CD if I later find I want them?

Plus, loading an old copy of XP requires setting the system to compatibility mode, plus a bunch of other stuff....

So this means I won´t be able to run the harddrives in SATA mode on old XP but on lenovoXP i will? What other stuff?

BEFORE you swap drives, burn off a set of recovery CD's from the factory preload. You can use them to rebuild the image on your 7200RPM drive. There is an icon to do this in the factory preload, assuming you have a combo drive or multiburner drive.

If I go with your suggestion (lenovoXP), is there a way of doing...

...a clean install as clean as if I had an old XP (no thinkvantage, no R&R, no hidden partion, no google apps and so on) then download driver updates via CD?

Step 2... do my audio testing.

Step 3...if I find I need to add "critical" items after testing download them to CD and install. This way I´ll know exacly when and why problems arise...Is there anything exept the hidden partion that can not be installed manually?

It is also very important to me to have a separate audio partion to record to. How would I create one without messing up?

If you do a clean install, you will probably have to...

1) First set system to compatibility, rather than SATA, mode in BIOS

2) Install XP, install SP2, hit windows update for some OS fixes

3) Connect to the internet (might need ethernet drivers manually loaded at this point

4) Go here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62928

5) BE SURE to go to the Windows Update modules...I think its the second to last item on the driver matrix...and run that executable to extract them to your system. You don't have to install them, just yet...but be sure to run the executable, which extracts them.

6) Download and run the Software Installer from the matrix page previously mentioned. It will allow you to control what gets put on your system. XP modules are a must.

Must haves are:
TPM driver
Intel chipset support
Intel Matrix storage driver
The latest wireless and LAN drivers
The MS High Def audio package
The onscreen display utility
the PCMCIA Power policy patch
(I like the scroll lock indicator...but its not trully essential)
The current audio driver
Current BIOS
Current Bluetooth, if equipped
The Thinkpad Configuration Utility
The EasyEject Utility
Fullscreen magnifier is nice to have
The Thinkpad Power Management driver
The Thinkpad Power Manager itself, separate from the driver
Presentation Director IF you have the ATI graphics subsystem, if not, leave it off.
The Thinkpad Ultranav driver
Here's one to think about...the Active Protection system for the hard drive....protects your system...but if you don't want it to park the heads of the drive when exposed to shock or movement, you can leave it off...(I wouldn't)
If you have a fingerprint reader, the fingerprint reader software
I really like Rescue and Recovery, current version, with all patches.
All the XP hotfixes you downloaded from above.

Just about everything else is not really necessary.

I assume you will be adding a PCI Express firewire adapter, like this one:
http://www.nextag.com/Belkin-EXPRESS-13 ... 71B2A92EC9

No idea how that will work with the system...

Oh, and if you do load Rescue and Recovery without Client Security Software (don't load CSS), you can disable the service CSSAUTH.


As to the hard drive...some can generate a BIOS error when brought up. May not cause data errors, but Lenovo only can test and certify a certain number of drives for their system. Doesn't mean yours won't work....

I still would not do the partitioning...just one drive....

Watch your power management settings. I would use the Power management software to make up your own high performance power management profile, so everything can run at max performance.

Its a real shame you can't get the T60p, sounds like the better choice for this application. Are you sure you can't order a 2007-83U or -87U? Or the -8DU, which was just announced in Oct? These are worldwide models...supposedly sold in 68 countries, though you have to replace the "U" for United States with a different code for a different country.

Also...maybe you should have considered a high end Z model...it has built in firewire capabilities....I would have looked hard at the 9443-XBU (again, the "U" gets replaced for other countries)

Nice answer Thanks!

About the T60P and Z series...I don´t like widescreen so the Z series was out fast! I got a Siig firewire 800 expresscard for my FW needs. The T60P would have been too expensive considering my soundcard cost $1129 and besides a high res screen would hurt my myopic eyes. If I need more real estate I can use an external monitor. I also wanted a quiet computer and I don´t game or do CAD so I figured the intel GMA would better. I went with a 1951FDG model. 14" XGA 1gig RAM and DVDRW.

I can see your point though...but a t60 with IPS costs $3193 here in sweden. Thats with 1 gig RAM and a 5600rpm drive. I wonder what the T60P is going to be when it arrives

About the install procedure you mention...just to clarify -this is for the old non-lenovo XP I have right?

You mention the Software Installer...should I use this instead of the newer System Update...what are the differences?

About partioning...why not? I´ve seen both good and bad experience at the forum. It is highly recommended for music computers.

About the audio drivers... I read somewhere that you had to do some special trick for the audio drivers to install properly because
system update would not to it. has this been fixed?

If I don´t use the fingerprint reader or other security..do I still need the TPM module? I´m afraid I would lock my self out someday.

The powermanager is a good idea I almost forgot about that one.

The TPM driver only lets software use the chip...if you don't load CSS, and don't set a supervisor or power on, or hard drive password, you won't lock yourself out.

Software Installer will eventually be replaced by System Update...but for what you are doing, it has the ability to read locally loaded drivers in its search path. So run it at least once, with the xp update modules in place. After that, you can use System Update.

The special trick on audio you mention is the High Def software from Microsoft, which they (MS) make a pain to load...or even find. using the XP update modules previously mentioned should handle this.

The Fingerprint software won't lock you out either...without CSS, it just makes it easier to log into the system with a finger swipe. You can still log in with Ctrl+Alt+Del, just like always instead of the swipe.

Partitioning sets up artificial ceilings on space...I think they are unnecessary, in this case. Defrag your drive when you can to keep lots of contiguous space available.

Good information! Thanks:)

...About the driver matrix page. It says "Windows XP update modules (United States only)" Does this mean it won´t install on a Swedish version XP?

...Another question. When I get the T60 I have 14 days to check it out and test with my other hardware and software. However if I would enter the Lenovo XP serial number into the computer the store will not take it back.

How do I avoid this? Do I have to enter reg number at startup?

My understanding is that I have 30 days before windows asks me to register. This would be perfect, however I´m worried that I will be asked somewhere in the process of migrating to the 7200rpm disk. Either while making the recovery CD or when using them on the 7200rpm or when doing the clean install. This is one reason I want to use an old XP disc.

Since I´m not using the 5400rpm disc for anything other than creating recovery disc it won´t matter if I for some reason have to register on the 7200 drive since I can still return the 5400 disc with a non registered factory XP? Right?

Also...does the Recovery cd´s recreate the Hidden partion?


Thanks for your answers they are very helpful.

JohnDrake wrote:
Partitioning sets up artificial ceilings on space...I think they are unnecessary, in this case. Defrag your drive when you can to keep lots of contiguous space available.

What do you mean by this?

Would you recommend paritioning if someone wanted to install XP and Linux on their T60?

Actually defragmentation is advised against when it comes to pro audio. You will actually get less performance if you defrag. Your audio app knows best where your audio project files should be so you don´t want to mess with them.

Once again...what is true for non-audio users is not true for audio users.

Partioning is ideal for me and fellow musicians thats the way it is.

I havn´t partioned my harddrive yet (did swap it for a 7k100 though) as I´m still testing a lot of software plug-ins and will reformat soon when my sytem becomes to bloated and I know what I need and what I can do without.

As far as audio performance goes I´m very satisfied. I did however have a crash during recording yesterday but on the other hand I havn´t made a clean install yet and I´m only testing so I hope I don´t experience that after final configuration.

I'm unclear on why a system constantly writing large volumes of audio data shouldn't be set up on a 2 partition config...one for system and apps and one for data. This would isolate the 2 from one another as relates to creating fragmentation.

The pro audio app might know best how/where to write the data initially, but what prevents the normal operation of the system from fragmenting it after creation.

If you isolate the data from the drive that handles your temp/tmp files and other system file writes wouldn't you stand a better chance at less fragmentation and better performance. It seems to work this way with modeling and simulation apps.

Just curious...

Scratch wrote:I'm unclear on why a system constantly writing large volumes of audio data shouldn't be set up on a 2 partition config...

It should!
I´m not sure your question was for me as I completely agree.

This is how I´m going to set up my system eventually;

Harddrive one
Partion 1 OS, Applications (defrag if you want to)
Partion 2 Audio record disk... (do NOT defrag even if you want to)

Harddrive two (in optical bay)

Partion 1 Samples
Partion 2 Backup of project files


Only problem is some people seem to have difficulties with partioning because of the hidden R&R partion...or so I´ve read. Nothing that couldn´t be solved fortunatley so I have some reading up to do before I attempt above configuration.

Anyway, for what I´m doing now I don´t need to partion anything as I´m just testing, figuring out what I want to have on the computer, wich parts of the Lenovo software I can live without and what audio apps I need.

Hope I understood your question