Keyboard on T60 and T42 (pics)

Message

ronan_zj · #1 Post by **ronan_zj** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:13 pm

here, yes, it looks like japanese lab has released these on website.
positive, the keyboard has been changed.

img]http://www.trialsangel.com/junzhou/000252291.jpg[/img]
img]http://www.trialsangel.com/junzhou/000252293.jpg[/img]

Note from Moderator: Warning or no warning, images are not supposed to be over 50k.

iatacs19 · #2 Post by **iatacs19** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:01 pm

changed for the better or worse?

which one is which?

ronan_zj · #3 Post by **ronan_zj** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:04 pm

the first pic is T60 keyboard.
the second one is T42 keyboard.
so, it becomes worse.
maybt these pics are just prototype of T60.
I will check my coming order T60 , and I will compare to my T42.

bigtiger · #4 Post by **bigtiger** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:14 pm

I have a strong feeling that lenovo is downgrading their keyboard. The feel of keyboards on X31, A31 are better than those on X41 and T4X, far more better on X60S.

yes, I know I have a NMB on my X60S and it feels like typing on some stone and is noisy. I really prefer an A30/A31 or X30,X31.

Hanson · #5 Post by **Hanson** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:16 pm

The first picture looks like it is a Chicony keyboard and the second picture is an NMB keyboard.

So just like the T4x series, the T60 keyboards come from three different manufacturers as well, all of which have variations in quality.

gunston · #6 Post by **gunston** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:04 pm

Sad to hear that LENOVO is downgrading the Thinkpad quality...

IBM Thinkpad Legendary era is fading and dissapearing soon

Jmmmmm · #7 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:20 pm

gunston wrote:Sad to hear that LENOVO is downgrading the Thinkpad quality...
IBM Thinkpad Legendary era is fading and dissapearing soon

Haha. My friend's t42 is exactly the same as the first picture. It looks to me like you just have keyboards from two different manufacturers (the same manufacturers that have always produced them).

Why must people freak out and proclaim that lenovo is ruining thinkpads any time they notice Any difference?? Please do your research before starting (or perpetuating) these rumors.

ramian · #8 Post by **ramian** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:05 am

I'm just curous here... what's the best/safest way of popping off a key without damaging it?

christopher_wolf · #9 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:52 am

This is a dubious comparison; as noted, the bottom picture is an NMB and the top picture is not. Given that the difference between the three available keyboards for the T Series has been the subject of many threads, it clouds the comparison greatly. Second, remember these are pictures and what is being judged here is only an indirect measure of the tactile and audbile feedback provided by the keys, not the only piece of info to go off of; that would be akin to someone buying an expensive painting/sculpture they never saw but physically felt the material to be of good quality.

Also, the top one cannot be a T4X Series keyboard as it obviously has the Windows Key on it; the T4X Series do not have physical Windows Keys on their keyboards while the T6X Series do.

OnnoK123 · #10 Post by **OnnoK123** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:14 am

I just took off one of the keys of my T60 and the keybord is the same mechanism as on the second picture. I also have an R52 with the same mechanism. But I like the T60 keybord more. The feel is better and the keys feel sturdier etc.

DavidNY · #11 Post by **DavidNY** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:04 am

OnnoK123 wrote:I just took off one of the keys of my T60 and the keybord is the same mechanism as on the second picture. I also have an R52 with the same mechanism. But I like the T60 keybord more. The feel is better and the keys feel sturdier etc.

Here are the key mechanisms on my T60s.

I guess the first is Chicony, not sure what the second one is.

#12 Post by **RonS** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:42 am

I really hate threads like this. Most people will read the first two or three posts, conclude that Lenovo is downgrading the Thinkpad keyboard, and move on. An irresponsible mistake like this can turn into damage control for a long time.

I think this thread should be deleted, or a least edited so it turns into a discussion on the differences between keyboards rather than a downturn in quality across the line.

OnnoK123 · #13 Post by **OnnoK123** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:25 pm

Its a shame that some people conclude that lenovo makes keybords worse based on 2 pictures. How can you possibly tell wich is better.. My expirience with the T60 keybord is that its better than te keybord on de R52.

#14 Post by **JaneL** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:45 pm

RonS wrote:I think this thread should be deleted, or a least edited so it turns into a discussion on the differences between keyboards rather than a downturn in quality across the line.

While I agree that the OP is a bit of an alarmist, I don't see a need to delete the thread over it. Part of this forum's goal is for us to learn from one another, and discussion of why conclusions are incorrect helps others learn from mistakes. You're welcome to start a parallel thread highlighting the different keyboards and the characteristics that make one better than the other, and we won't lock it as a duplicate.

DavidNY · #15 Post by **DavidNY** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:03 pm

I don't know if one is better than the other, the Chicony feels OK to me, but they are different.

One of my T60s shipped with a M a t s u s h i t a DVD burner, the other one with a Hitachi/LG. (In that case, the LG is the clear winner)

steveg47 · #16 Post by **steveg47** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:07 pm

IMO the keyboard on the T60 has a slightly (and I do me slightly) different feel compaired to previous models I have use, but it is still a very superior keyboard. If you doubt this just waltz into a Compusa or similar store and try the keyboards on the dozens of brands and models they sell(I have) and you'll realize just how superior the T60 keyboard really is. I do, however, have a word of criticism for Lenovo. The trackpoint keys could be a lot better on the T60 especially when compared to those on my x23.

BTW, is there a way of determining the specific keyboard manufacturer without opening the unit?

perry_78 · #17 Post by **perry_78** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:11 pm

Yes. Enter your serial number under "warranty status", and then click parts shipped with my system.

You should then get the FRU of your keyboard, which you can crosscheck either with a list from lenovo or simply google it

steveg47 · #18 Post by **steveg47** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:12 pm

perry_78 wrote:Yes. Enter your serial number under "warranty status", and then click parts shipped with my system.

You should then get the FRU of your keyboard, which you can crosscheck either with a list from lenovo or simply google it

Thanks perry_78.
For the record I have an Alps keyboard

#19 Post by **tomh009** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:06 pm

perry_78 wrote:Yes. Enter your serial number under "warranty status", and then click parts shipped with my system.

You should then get the FRU of your keyboard, which you can crosscheck either with a list from lenovo or simply google it

Where can I check 08K5073? Googling it didn't help ...

Nebzar · #20 Post by **Nebzar** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:26 pm

tomh009 wrote:
perry_78 wrote:Yes. Enter your serial number under "warranty status", and then click parts shipped with my system.

You should then get the FRU of your keyboard, which you can crosscheck either with a list from lenovo or simply google it
Where can I check 08K5073? Googling it didn't help ...

That FRU is here, but it appears to be for X31/X32, not for T60...

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-50025

#21 Post by **RonS** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:58 pm

Keyboard part numbers for the T60:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-62728

#22 Post by **tomh009** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:01 pm

Nebzar wrote:
tomh009 wrote:Where can I check 08K5073? Googling it didn't help ...
That FRU is here, but it appears to be for X31/X32, not for T60...

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-50025

Indeed it is.

But that page still doesn't tell me the keyboard manufacturer?

Nebzar · #23 Post by **Nebzar** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:05 pm

Just a guess: maybe that keyboard is provided by one manifacturer only, thus they don't need to specify its name...

Jmmmmm · #24 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:27 pm

Nebzar wrote:Just a guess: maybe that keyboard is provided by one manifacturer only, thus they don't need to specify its name...

Nah, that's just not the right page. It's kind of tricky to find, and I can't seem to find it now again.

You can also just push the 'access ibm' button (or whatever the blue button is called on the new ones), go to system info, warranty and parts info, and it says what you have there.

steveg47 · #25 Post by **steveg47** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:52 pm

Nebzar wrote:Just a guess: maybe that keyboard is provided by one manifacturer only, thus they don't need to specify its name...

Try here for parts.

Nebzar · #26 Post by **Nebzar** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:45 am

Here is my little contribution to this discussion.

This is the mechanism of the NMB keyboard of my T43:

This is the T60 NMB keyboard I ordered separately for the T60:

And this is the Chicony keyboard that originally came with the T60:

As it can be seen, NMB mechanism has not changed with time.

As far as quality is concerned, my feeling is that all three keyboard exhibit a very high construction quality. It's more a matter of personal taste which keyboard may be preferred.

To be more specific, the situation is this:

- The T43 NMB keyboard is very silent, it doesn't make any click when a key is pressed;

- The T60 Chicony makes, on the contrary, a distinct click;

- The T60 NMB keyboard is inbetween the other two: it does indeed make a click, but a very light one.

I think that the quantity of noise made by each keyboard is more a design decision rather than a matter of quality: in fact, an audible click is a sort of feedback for the user, and is very useful when typing quickly.

Personally, I like all three keyboards very much: the T43 NMB is very good if you need to type without disturbing nearby people, but sometimes you may be uncertain to have actually typed a letter; the Chicony does a perfect job if you must type very quickly, with no noise concerns; the T60 NMB is very versatile, giving indeed a very delicate audible feedback.

Best regards
Neb

PS: by exclusion, I would say that the mechanism illustrated in the second picture of the DavidNY's post may be the one of Alps keyboards.

theclaw · #27 Post by **theclaw** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:08 pm

I can't agree with you, Nebzar - my Z61m features a Chicony keyboard and the keys feel "wobbly", also some keys make strange noises when being pressed - for example, when pressing the page down key, it sounds like if something inside the notebook is being "bent". (I hope you understand, I'm not a native speaker)

One strange thing is that I tried the same keyboard (which means exactly the same, same FRU number according to parts lookup at lenovo.com) and didn't notice such problems - seems that the Chicony ones also vary in quality

Most likely I'll ask the service in a few days to replace my keyboard

greets,
johannes

EDIT: typo

Nebzar · #28 Post by **Nebzar** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 4:45 pm

My personal experience is limited to the three keyboards I have, thus I am not in a position to judge quality consistency.

Certainly, non negligible differences among keyboards of the same type made by the same producer are not welcome...

Regards

nxman · #29 Post by **nxman** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:20 pm

Sorry to say but Lenovo doesn't use top quality materials like IBM
Many T60 users has noticed the downgrade in quality

christopher_wolf · #30 Post by **christopher_wolf** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:15 pm

nxman wrote:Sorry to say but Lenovo doesn't use top quality materials like IBM
Many T60 users has noticed the downgrade in quality

Again, do you have quantitative, conclusive proof of this?

I have to say, I have seen statements like this ("IBM Good, Lenovo Bad") in the T60 threads now and they serve literally no purpose other than to clutter the thread and drag it off-topic. Keep in mind that the conference that dealt with that subject was closed and archived due to, interestingly enough, lack of posts. If nothing interesting could have been said along those lines in that conference where it was meant to be said, then it is in serious question whether anything meaningful about it can be stated in *this* conference.

Let's try to stay on-topic with sane claims, please.

Keyboard on T60 and T42 (pics)

Keyboard on T60 and T42 (pics)

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