Core 2 Duo Upgrade

[brentpresley]

I'm not so sure it's worth spending $700 on the new CPU and void a warranty just for a 5-10% occasional increase.

If you are paying $700, and NOT selling your old CPU, then you have other problems.

The upgrade to a C2D T7600 from a CD T2500 should cost $250-300. For some (like myself) that was an EASILY justifiable cost.

[stefan_s1]

Hey there,

my T60p/T7600 managed 96 degrees (celcius) because I had a run-away Java applet ;(

I just noticed the CPU temp by accident... maybe I was close having to buy a new mainboard

Anyone else experienced this with high CPU-load ?

[benplaut]

100C is the safe temp, at which point it will shut off. It should be fine.

[own6volvos]

Hey there,

my T60p/T7600 managed 96 degrees (celcius) because I had a run-away Java applet ;(

I just noticed the CPU temp by accident... maybe I was close having to buy a new mainboard

Anyone else experienced this with high CPU-load ?

How the heck did it get that high? I have pegged both cores with specific cpu load programs, and I have never managed to break 80C (once fans kick on it levels to 67-70C)

[stefan_s1]

I dont understand the high temparature either...

Guess I'll have to take it apart again, and reapply cooling paste

The fans spins at level 7 (roughly 3600 rpms), so the cooling system won't be able to provide any more cooling.

[stefan_s1]

I took the system apart, and it seems like I've done it right this time.

However, I stumbled upon the GPU temperature which is IMHO very high: ~80 degrees celsius !

Could it be that the GPU was to blame for the overheating issues I encountered where the CPU went all the way to 96 degrees celcius ?

Guess I will have to take it apart once again, as I havent replaced the factory cooling paste on that one during my upgrades.

Atleast I think it could be linked together as they are on the same piece of cooling metal (with one heatpipe for the CPU and another for both GPU and chipset).

I will post details soon ...

[onix]

What am I missing here? Where did you get these numbers, 15%? What is the point of running a 64 bit OS, Vista or Linux on a laptop ?? Doesn't anyone else think that it is a waste of warranty and money ?

EXACTLY. Unless the CPU gives me longer battery through a lower power draw and/or the ability to add more than 4GB or RAM, who gives a crap. Vista is CRAP bloatware and I'll switch my Intel CPU to running Mac OS X soon. Linux running 64-bit only helps if you have more memory.... Really there's no point.

[wswartzendruber]

A couple of remarks based on what I've read here:

1. You will NOT be using more than 4 GB RAM with this system. The Nappa chipset from Intel is limited to 4 GB RAM.
2. Windows XP accepts up to 3 GB RAM, so Windows XP x64 would let you have an extra 1 GB.
3. Another small point of 64-bit computing is that the processor can run calculations on values larger than 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 in half as many cycles. This is really only useful for scientific applications. However, people have reported that the LAME MP3 encoder works somewhere around 15% faster when compiled for 64-bit.

[runixd]

If you're running Linux, you can compile for the 64-bit environment, meaning you get full advantage of that boost. You're not running older applications at that point.

Let's also hope that you can use 4GB of RAM in a 64-bit environment, which would make some power users happy, but I haven't seen an authoritative word on whether or not that will work.

What boost ?

You will not be able to use more ram, it is still at 3Gb.
And now we get overheating problems, stefan_s1, I hope it is due to a cooling paste and you will fix it.

So those people that have actually swapped the CPU, do you realistically notice a difference ?

[brentpresley]

If you're running Linux, you can compile for the 64-bit environment, meaning you get full advantage of that boost. You're not running older applications at that point.

Let's also hope that you can use 4GB of RAM in a 64-bit environment, which would make some power users happy, but I haven't seen an authoritative word on whether or not that will work.

What boost ?

You will not be able to use more ram, it is still at 3Gb.
And now we get overheating problems, stefan_s1, I hope it is due to a cooling paste and you will fix it.

So those people that have actually swapped the CPU, do you realistically notice a difference ?

YES. Particularly in: photoshop, video encoding, LARGE document files (200pages+).

Temps are NO HIGHER for me than a CD T2500 was.

[runixd]

Thats great to hear brentpresey, I guess if you do what you posted professionally it might worth it.

[brentpresley]

Thats great to hear brentpresey, I guess if you do what you posted professionally it might worth it.

I just finished writing a 221page PhD dissertation.

There was NO such thing as "fast enough". The more power the better.

[runixd]

Thats great to hear brentpresey, I guess if you do what you posted professionally it might worth it.

I just finished writing a 221page PhD dissertation.

There was NO such thing as "fast enough". The more power the better.

Is there a reason you have all of your dissertation open at once ?

[tomh009]

1. You will NOT be using more than 4 GB RAM with this system. The Nappa chipset from Intel is limited to 4 GB RAM.
2. Windows XP accepts up to 3 GB RAM, so Windows XP x64 would let you have an extra 1 GB.

ThinkPad hardware is limited to 3GB of accessible memory so that is all you will see regardless of the OS.

3. Another small point of 64-bit computing is that the processor can run calculations on values larger than 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 in half as many cycles. This is really only useful for scientific applications. However, people have reported that the LAME MP3 encoder works somewhere around 15% faster when compiled for 64-bit.

Database servers also benefit. Not that many people will run those on ThinkPads ...

[brentpresley]

I just finished writing a 221page PhD dissertation.

There was NO such thing as "fast enough". The more power the better.

Is there a reason you have all of your dissertation open at once ?

Yes. Automatic page number for figures and bibliography references are ONLY available if you do it as one file. Otherwise you have to do those by hand. And with 15-20 pages of references, that is NEVER happening.

[runixd]

DB server would primarily benefit from more ram and we clarified that intel chipset would still not support more. Oracle will eat your 3Gb-4Gb for breakfast anyway, why bother, others won't really care since the only logical use on a laptop is for development. I will buy a ticket to fly and look in the face of someone who rolls a production db server on t60p.

brent, you know you can just combine your work at the end and do a page numbering and bibliography then ? Might I add this is the first time I hear about a need in a top of the range pc to do word processing. Also I hope you won't have to send your laptop to ibm, since you sold your original cpu, as I understand ?

[brentpresley]

DB server would primarily benefit from more ram and we clarified that intel chipset would still not support more. Oracle will eat your 3Gb-4Gb for breakfast anyway, why bother.

brent, you know you can just combine your work at the end and do a page numbering and bibliography then ? Might I add this is the first time I hear about a need in a top of the range pc to do word processing. Also I hope you won't have to send your laptop to ibm, since you sold your original cpu, as I understand ?

1) my dissertation has HUGE graphic files
2) combining everything at the END is absolutely NOT practical, particularly when you are under a deadline and need to be able to edit multiple chapters at once without hunting for another file
3) I paid 1/2 price for my T60p and it was built from scratch from spare parts. There is NO warranty on the system from lenovo. And that is JUST FINE with me.

Besides, I know more about the ins and outs of these laptops than 99.999999999% of the techs at lenovo.

Only chickens buy a warranty.

[runixd]

we are way offtopic now, maybe we should talk somewhere else, but

1) and ?
2) not practical ? You will get a huge speed bump working with files 1/10 the size, how is this not practical ? I'm not at all an expert or even a user in Word and am using open office myself, but surely there has to be a way to create a document bunch and make it edit files on demand without keeping them in memory all the time. How does everyone else manage to do their Phd.

3) For you it is fine then. Most others, including me have warranties. Even if , like you, we did know more about these laptop than lenovo techs we would still have to buy a component to replace a faulty one, instead of getting a free repair, that is what the warranty is for, isn't it ?

[brentpresley]

we are way offtopic now, maybe we should talk somewhere else, but

1) and ?
2) not practical ? You will get a huge speed bump working with files 1/10 the size, how is this not practical ? I'm not at all an expert or even a user in Word and am using open office myself, but surely there has to be a way to create a document bunch and make it edit files on demand without keeping them in memory all the time. How does everyone else manage to do their Phd.

3) For you it is fine then. Most others, including me have warranties. Even if , like you, we did know more about these laptop than lenovo techs we would still have to buy a component to replace a faulty one, instead of getting a free repair, that is what the warranty is for, isn't it ?

1) HUGE EDITABLE Graphics files like faster CPUs.
2) Your proposal would require a LOT more time and effort to save just a SMALL amount of resources.
3) My point was that for some of us (like a LOT of the people on this forum that work on these machines) that it is worth the loss of warranty to have the upgrade and the features it provides.

[pianowizard]

I just finished writing a 221page PhD dissertation.

Hey, that's ONE page longer than mine! LOL!

And with 15-20 pages of references, that is NEVER happening.

Mine had 20 pages of references. What's your field? And when are you defending?

Oh, are you at UNC? One of my best friends is doing his PhD there.

[tomh009]

Is there a reason you have all of your dissertation open at once ?

Yes. Automatic page number for figures and bibliography references are ONLY available if you do it as one file. Otherwise you have to do those by hand. And with 15-20 pages of references, that is NEVER happening.

Microsoft Word, then?

I think the key to avoid that load is to use a serious tool for serious documents: FrameMaker. I would only write a 200-page doc with heavy graphics in Word under protest.

[brentpresley]

Yes. Automatic page number for figures and bibliography references are ONLY available if you do it as one file. Otherwise you have to do those by hand. And with 15-20 pages of references, that is NEVER happening.

Microsoft Word, then?

I think the key to avoid that load is to use a serious tool for serious documents: FrameMaker. I would only write a 200-page doc with heavy graphics in Word under protest.

Go write a 200+ page dissertation in Framemaker in under 2 months. Never going to happen. That program is very cumbersome to use.

Word 2007 was actually quite pleasant. It only consumed 50MB of RAM when the entire file was open. (LOL - even photoshop with one of the images open used 2x that).

[brentpresley]

I just finished writing a 221page PhD dissertation.

Hey, that's ONE page longer than mine! LOL!

And with 15-20 pages of references, that is NEVER happening.

Mine had 20 pages of references. What's your field? And when are you defending?

Oh, are you at UNC? One of my best friends is doing his PhD there.

I'll try not to take the UNC comment personally.

I'm at the better institution down the road 7 miles.


I'm dual degree MD/PhD. PhD in Molecular Biology (study of Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes).

I defended YESTERDAY and am happy to say that I passed AND do not even have to make any revisions to the dissertation. (YEAH!!!!!!)

[pianowizard]

I defended YESTERDAY

I see, so it's the official copy that you just turned in, not the one that you had to give your committee about two weeks before the defense.

and am happy to say that I passed AND do not even have to make any revisions to the dissertation. (YEAH!!!!!!)

Congrats! While virtually no one ever fails, many people do need to make some minor revisions.

[brentpresley]

I defended YESTERDAY

I see, so it's the official copy that you just turned in, not the one that you had to give your committee about two weeks before the defense.

and am happy to say that I passed AND do not even have to make any revisions to the dissertation. (YEAH!!!!!!)

Congrats! While virtually no one ever fails, many people do need to make some minor revisions.

Thanks. Actually, the copy that was sent to the committee 2 weeks ago was sufficient and they said no further changes were necessary. But I'm sure I'll read it over one more time for typos before it gets sent out for binding.

[tomh009]

Go write a 200+ page dissertation in Framemaker in under 2 months. Never going to happen. That program is very cumbersome to use.

Frame is definitely not slick. But once you get used to it and get your styles set up, it pretty much stays out of your way. And never crashes.

Maybe some day Adobe will actually assign a developer to the Frame team so that we can get a real product update.

[stefan_s1]

Finally....

I took my machine apart and replaced the cooling paste on the CPU (again), and removed the stock cooling paste on the chipset and the GPU.

After booting up the GPU core was at 96 degrees celcius and rising

Took the system apart again, and I noticed that while I had replaced the cooling paste, the copper wasn't touching the GPU and the chipset correctly. WHAT??!!

Since I had thrown out the paste-oem-goo that came with the thinkpad (it was sort of fractured anyway), and couldn't use it anymore.

I decided to bend the cooler just a bit (at the heatpipe that connects it to the rest of the cooler) making it touch the GPU and Chipset as much as possible. Re-applied cooling paste (more than one would normally do to make certain it touched the copper).

The picture seems a little better... however more can be done for the GPU I think:

Idle:
CPU: 51
GPU: 69
Fan: 3470 rpms

Heavy load:
CPU: 82-86
GPU: 97-102
Fan: 3500 rpms

(all in degrees celcius)

To conclude it all, it seems like the cooling system is incredibly fragile, to temperatures from the GPU, but thats no wonder as its a compromise of space (and cost probably). And ofcourse me sticking my fingers where they don't belong

I'm well open to ideas on what to improve the situation with. I thought about purchasing some cooling that would aid heat dissipation/spreading across more physical space, and improve the contact on the GPU aswell.

While writing this piece, the temp levels has fallen down to these levels:

CPU: 55
GPU: 73
Fan: 3470

Just to be on the safe side, I ordered a replacement fan from lenovo. They are suprisingly cheap, and it wouldn't hurt to have an extra lying around. The FRU number is 41V9932 (for my 2007-93G model atleast) if anyone is interested.

I will write more as the search continues for improving the cooling of my thinkpad....

[DavidNY]

Does anyone have the Lenovo part number for the T7600 core 2 duo?

I can't find it on their site.

Thanks!

[stefan_s1]

Just buy any T7600, from newegg.com or something.

The Intel product code on mine is: BX80537T7600SL9SD

[brentpresley]

Does anyone have the Lenovo part number for the T7600 core 2 duo?

I can't find it on their site.

Thanks!

Google search for SL9SD.

That is the stepping code for the T7600. All of these are IDENTICAL. Don't waist your money buying it anywhere but the cheapest place available.