Thinkpads Forum

Hi everyone

My screen just went out on my old Dell, so time for a new computer. I'm a student who will be attending college next year, and I want to know if I should buy the computer now (with the holiday sale going on) or wait a few months till something newer/better comes out. The thing is, I don't want to pay 2700 bucks for a new model. I want to pay less than 2000, and the setup I configured comes out to about 1700 with the Viewsonic 20.1 inch LCD. What should I do?

Also, will the gfx card in the T60 be enough to support a 20.1 inch widescreen LCD?

Thanks in advance.

BTW this is the setup:

2ghz c2d
14.1 inch sxga+
256 mb gfx
1.5 gb ram
60 gig 7200 rpm hd
thinkpad wireless card

and this is the monitor:
http://reviews.cnet.com/ViewSonic_VX202 ... ml?tag=lst

Sounds like a cool deal.

However, next year Intel will release the 4th generation on Centrino platform: Santa Rosa. It will incorporate Crestline GM to have a DirectX 10 capability natively compatible to Vista's Aero features.

Santa Rosa will replace Merom, and will function with a 800MHz FSB (vs 667Mhz on today's T60 C2D)

If you're interested in getting the newest technology wait for next year Q1, but it's your choice.

benottomex wrote:However, next year Intel will release the 4th generation on Centrino platform: Santa Rosa. It will incorporate Crestline GM to have a DirectX 10 capability natively compatible to Vista's Aero features.

Close, but not quite. The Santa Rosa chipset will replace the current Napa chipset. Merom is the Core 2 Duo processor, and new Merom CPUs will work with the Santa Rosa chipset. Some more reading here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#S ... a_platform

The latest and greatest technology may or may not fit within your budget, though! Personally I'd go for the current sale, but only you can make the choice ...

NRM wrote:Hi everyone
Also, will the gfx card in the T60 be enough to support a 20.1 inch widescreen LCD?

I don't have a T60; I have an X60s with Intel's integrated graphics. Even with the integrated graphics it's able to drive a 22" widescreen with the same resolution.

I wouldn't worry about a discrete graphics card with 256MB of VRAM being unable to drive the monitor.

If you're a student, unless in CS or Engineering, I'd consider the X60 over the T60 in that it is considerably lighter and lots of students use units this small.

I have one and it is currently driving a Dell 2407 24" 1920 x 1200 display without any problem. I'm using it to program Java with Eclipse and it is great.

tomh009 wrote:

benottomex wrote:
The latest and greatest technology may or may not fit within your budget, though! Personally I'd go for the current sale, but only you can make the choice ...

Well...do you think that by around may/june/julyish the 'latest and greatest' technology everybody is decribing will be at a similar price as the setup I'm looking at now?

NRM wrote:Well...do you think that by around may/june/julyish the 'latest and greatest' technology everybody is decribing will be at a similar price as the setup I'm looking at now?

You'll most likely be able to buy a T60 (or X60!) with some clever new technology at the same kind of MSRP as the current models today. The variable is what kind of sale price you'll be able to find at that point -- but you could always fall back on getting a recent one from either this forum or eBay if there is no sale to be found.

On the flip side, if you buy one now (and the prices are good!) you'll be able to use it for an extra nine months or so. And today's models are no sluggards -- 2 GHz dual core CPUs and decent graphics will easily run any apps (and the big display) you care to throw at them for the next few years. Heck, Photoshop runs well even on my 1.6 GHz Pentium M.

Well I always love excuses to buy now!

On the downside, someone swiped up my 260 dollar refurb for the widescreen moniter! I think i'll order the computer now, and then ask for the monitor as an xmas present.

dfumento wrote:If you're a student, unless in CS or Engineering, I'd consider the X60 over the T60 in that it is considerably lighter and lots of students use units this small.

That's a great recommendation. To me, the main advantage of the T series over the X series is having a bigger screen with higher resolution. But the OP will be using a nice external LCD monitor anyway, so why not get the much more mobile X60 and forget about the T60.

dfumento wrote:I have one and it is currently driving a Dell 2407 24" 1920 x 1200 display without any problem. I'm using it to program Java with Eclipse and it is great.

I am driving the 2407WFP that I got last week (for $581 including sales tax) with my T43. Works very well.

Well the X is a little more expensive and a little less powerful. I doubt I'de notice the size/weight difference between them when it's in my backpack. But I appreciate the suggestion. I was almost all set to click the button, then my brother brought to my attention the Macbook (not pro). Similarly equipped to the T60 it's similarly priced, and on top of that I'de get a 10% student discount and a free ipod, but then I'de have to wait till later in the year (i'm guesstimating around may-ish). Is there any reason I shouldn't go with the Mac? (I want to be convinced out of it)

NRM wrote:Is there any reason I shouldn't go with the Mac? (I want to be convinced out of it)

I'd say if you're going to get a Mac you should get the Pro. The plain macbook is cheap for a reason.

Classmates of mine who have the the Macbook treat their laptop like everyone else, but they have the unsightly palm rest stains and the cases are developing stress fractures. At least with the Pro you have a machine that is probably the quality-control equivalent of a T60.

Maybe Apple is making some changes for the Core 2 Duo machines, but it is really a mistake to pull the trigger on a Macbook unless it's going to be a desktop replacement with a seperate keyboard. Plus, you're going to be stuck with integrated graphics. Now the Pro might be a step up, depending on your needs and desires...but that comment might draw some fire.



Choosing the macbook over the T60 model you were looking at would represent a step down.

NRM wrote:Well the X is a little more expensive and a little less powerful. I doubt I'de notice the size/weight difference between them when it's in my backpack. But I appreciate the suggestion. I was almost all set to click the button, then my brother brought to my attention the Macbook (not pro). Similarly equipped to the T60 it's similarly priced, and on top of that I'de get a 10% student discount and a free ipod, but then I'de have to wait till later in the year (i'm guesstimating around may-ish). Is there any reason I shouldn't go with the Mac? (I want to be convinced out of it)

Weighs almost a pound more than the T60. 40% lower screen resolution (you picked SXGA+ for the T60). No active hard disk protection. No trackpoint. Runs hotter than ThinkPads. And (generally accepted to be) lower build quality.

If you want to compare to the non-Pro MacBook, take a look at the R60, which is more consumer-oriented (like the MacBook).

NRM wrote:I doubt I'de notice the size/weight difference between them when it's in my backpack.

I carry laptops in my backpack too and trust me, the difference is HUGE. It's feeling miserable (T series) vs. opening the backpack several times per hour to check that there is really a laptop inside (X series).

smvp6459 wrote:I'd say if you're going to get a Mac you should get the Pro. The plain macbook is cheap for a reason.

Classmates of mine who have the the Macbook treat their laptop like everyone else, but they have the unsightly palm rest stains and the cases are developing stress fractures. At least with the Pro you have a machine that is probably the quality-control equivalent of a T60.

Agreed. I just played with a MacBook and a MacBook Pro at the university bookstore and the quality difference between them was very obvious. The MacBook Pro may be even slightly sturdier than the T60, which my boss has. Compare the T60 with the MacBook Pro, not the MacBook.

I was looking at the C2D macbook pro, but apparently the screens are absolutely dreadful, so that automatically eliminated the MBP. So basically integrated graphics, poor build quality (heat issue included here), and extra weight are where the MB falls short of the T60. The screen size issue is still there, but I don't care THAT much seeing as it'll be plugged into the big screen when I need the extra pixel real estate.

So, before I make the final decision...

c2d 2 ghz
xp pro
14.1 inch sxga+
ati mobility fire GL 256 mb
1.5 gb sdram
60 gb 7200 rpm drive cdrw/dvd rom combo
for $1497

Would you all agree that if I wait until around may or june, I will not get such a bargain?

I'd say that right now you do get a bargain. Next summer, there are no guarantees ...

Right.

Is anyone familiar enough with this business to have the ability to predict what will happen with the prices/technology by the time summer rolls around?

Also-
Will a 5400rpm hard drive be the limiting component on the speed of my specific system setup? I'm thinking of getting the 100 gb 5400 rpm hd instead of the 60 gb 7200 rpm since it's the same price.

It all depends on what you do. If you work with large files (digital photography or multimedia, for example), the 7200 rpm drive will give you the "wow" factor. But lots of people happily work with 5400 rpm drives, and you will have lots of memory, so it's surely not critical. So it depends on how much space you need vs how much speed you need.

One more alternative yet would be to go cheap, save the $50 and stick with a 60 GB 5400 rpm drive for now. Use that for a year or so, and then, with that $50 (and another $50-100 you'll need to save!) you can upgrade your T60 to a 200 GB 7200 rpm hybrid drive. Those are coming out next year, and should be in the $100-150 range by late 2007 or early 2008. At that point you can then slip your original 60 GB into an external USB2 housing ($10) and have some backup/archive storage.

Decisions, decisions ...

NRM wrote:Is anyone familiar enough with this business to have the ability to predict what will happen with the prices/technology by the time summer rolls around?

I am.

When you finally choose something and buy it, a newer model that is better/faster/cheaper will immediately either be announced or become available.

Things change rapidly and constantly in this business. At some point, you have to stop chasing prices and features and just purchase something that is 1) the feature set that you want at the moment, 2) a price that is good for the moment and 3) available. Otherwise, you will never buy anything.

tomh009 wrote:\
One more alternative yet would be to go cheap, save the $50 and stick with a 60 GB 5400 rpm drive for now. Use that for a year or so, and then, with that $50 (and another $50-100 you'll need to save!) you can upgrade your T60 to a 200 GB 7200 rpm hybrid drive. Those are coming out next year, and should be in the $100-150 range by late 2007 or early 2008. At that point you can then slip your original 60 GB into an external USB2 housing ($10) and have some backup/archive storage.

Decisions, decisions ...

Nonny: That's what I'm coming to realize, thanks for verifying it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy this thing before December 11.

Tom: Now that's an interesting idea. I'm sure I COULD live with a 5400 rpm 60 gig drive, as right now I'm running a 40 gig drive and am currently using up 34 gigs, plus I've set my Creative Zen so it acts as an 8 gb external hard drive as well. Also I could turn my current hard drive into an external, then I'de have a total of 100 gigs...Where can i get the USB2 housing?

Also, how do I find out the size of my 40gb Ultra ATA hd? I looked for the size on the spec sheet of this computer but it did not say.

@nonny: You couldn't have said it better...
When I bought my TP I could wait for the core2duo, and now you can wait for the quadcore, and once they're out you can wait for...
Depending on your needs, it doesn't matter SO much in my opinion. I don't think someone needs a quadcore for doing some word processing, excel, web surfing, music listening,...

@NRM: If you don't use more then 60GB why don't you just get the 60GB 7200rpm drive?
After a year you can buy an external harddisk for 100$.
That way you have a year more pleasure of the extra speed and a bigger external disk...

NRM wrote:Tom: Now that's an interesting idea. I'm sure I COULD live with a 5400 rpm 60 gig drive, as right now I'm running a 40 gig drive and am currently using up 34 gigs, plus I've set my Creative Zen so it acts as an 8 gb external hard drive as well. Also I could turn my current hard drive into an external, then I'de have a total of 100 gigs...Where can i get the USB2 housing?

That sounds like a good plan. Your current laptop drive is pretty much guaranteed to be a 2.5" drive, but if you post your Dell's model number we can check for you.

The USB housings are widely (and cheaply!) available -- here is newegg.com's selection, for example. You might want to drop into your local computer store and take a look at different ones and pick up one you like; they should not cost much more than $20. You'll probably want to get one powered from USB so that you don't need an extra power supply ...

Firstly, waiting for the Core 2 Duo can be a big deal because it is the first processor that runs 64-bit which during the 2 or 3 year life of the laptop many people might want to upgrade to.

Secondly, order a unit with 802.11n card for the extra $35. It is draft-n, but most likely to be firmware upgradable to final version. 802.11n is far superior to 802.11g in both speed and range.

Other future changes are in terms of incremental performance which is nice but not an actual change in features per-se.

So, I would have advised to wait for the above two items and now advise that you order with these two items, but I don't see any point in waiting now that you have them available.

If you wanted to get built-in EVDO then you would wait until second quarter 2007 because that is when EVDO Rev 0 will be upgraded to EVDO Rev A. with the release of the Santa Rosa Platform/Chipset.

Regarding hard disk size, I'd upgrade to the 100 GB 5400 HD because about 5 GB are used for IBM hidden partition and most disk defrag programs (e.g. the free Diskeeper Lite and Windows) require 15-20% free disk space [note that PerfectDisk 8.0 requires only 5%].

dfumento wrote:If you wanted to get built-in EVDO then you would wait until second quarter 2007 because that is when EVDO Rev 0 will be upgraded to EVDO Rev A. with the release of the Santa Rosa Platform/Chipset.

The EV-DO isn't actually part of the Santa Rosa chipset, though -- or is it? I thought it was a separate chipset, even if the Rev A might coincide with the Santa Rosa release.

More interestingly for me, Santa Rosa does include HSDPA WWAN.

It's a Dell 5150. I won't be needing the EVDO.


I really appreciate everyone's help, thank you.

I think when I do order it, I will call and see if I can get an even better deal. What should I say to the guy to get a few more dollars knocked off?

tomh009 wrote:

dfumento wrote:If you wanted to get built-in EVDO then you would wait until second quarter 2007 because that is when EVDO Rev 0 will be upgraded to EVDO Rev A. with the release of the Santa Rosa Platform/Chipset.

The EV-DO isn't actually part of the Santa Rosa chipset, though -- or is it? I thought it was a separate chipset, even if the Rev A might coincide with the Santa Rosa release.

More interestingly for me, Santa Rosa does include HSDPA WWAN.

You are correct, they only coincide. HSDPA does not have that much coverage yet in US compared with EVDO. EVDO Rev A will use a new Sierra Wireless chip.

dfumento wrote:You are correct, they only coincide. HSDPA does not have that much coverage yet in US compared with EVDO. EVDO Rev A will use a new Sierra Wireless chip.

You are correct, too. However, I'm on GSM (Rogers Wireless) -- and the time I really would like to have WWAN coverage is when I'm traveling outside North America, which means UMTS/HSDPA is really the only option.

I ordered it

Now the 3-4 week wait. Ugh.