Thinkpads Forum

When selecting a machine my requirements are straight forward:
- Portability: I end up traveling between several locations. I have to be able to do what I can at home or office anywhere.
- Performance: I run scientific computing applications so having a robust dual core 64 bit platform was a must. Some of what I do involves using CAD so having solid dedicated graphics was a requirement.
- Build quality

With that in mind I considered several laptops: Alienware was just too toy-like, I could not go into a meeting with a client and have my laptop look like a prop from Independence Day. Acer, Apple and Sony are nice but they only have a touch pad. I’ve suffered through too crappy corporate HPs to give them another chance and Dell is the Toyota Camry of computing.

Lenovo seemed like a good choice given the competition. Their recent $300-off sale tipped the scale. So I ordered a 2.0Ghz Core 2 Duo T60p with the ATI FireGL 5250, 100GB 7200rpm drive and 1GB of RAM (will get more RAM cheaper elsewhere). When I was choosing between screens, Lenovo.com would not show you the native resolution. This seems rather odd, as I think most people could relate easier to “Maximum 1024x768 resolution” rather than a random combination of letters X, S,G and A.

The laptop came in earlier than expected, although it did get confused with a live animal by the customs (it shipped from Hong Kong). I heard delays at the customs are common among Lenovo’s, although I can imagine the issues will apply to any brand. Un-boxing experience was pretty uneventful lacking the erotic flare of Apple’s packaging.

Shell design is quite similar to the T42, although the edges are less cluttered. I like having an extra USB port on the side and I doubt the lack of the parallel port will be missed by many. A separate power supply plug indicator is a useful new addition. The Windows key is finally there -- one my gripes with the T42.

There are 2 issues that jumped out in the single day of owning the machine. First is that the base install has too much junk. It has every application made by Google. Initial impressions of the performance are skewed because of the desktop search indexing the hard drive. Still, cross vendor marketing isn't as bad as on a Dell. I favor clean installs and the first thing I did was reformat the drive and load up 64bit Vista.

The second issue is related to build quality. For instance, there is a little wireless toggle switch below the keyboard that wiggles and clunks around. There is also some flex in the plastic above the keyboard. I understand some sacrifices have to be made for impact absorption, but having the whole panel flex when pushing the power button is unacceptable. Tiny things like that are noticeable on an otherwise stellar machine.

Windows Vista performance ratings
Processor: 4.9
Memory: 4.5
Graphics: 4.3
Gaming: 4.6
Hard disk: 5.1

Argh, more issues regarding build quality. I'm going to ignore them for my own good The lack of a windows key was originally a problem for me too, but then I used the keyboard configuration program and realised that it was designed for open source operating systems (hence no Windows)... so I'd be annoyed if it had one now. Are they standard, or is it only on some models? This is confusing, as until now I thought it was only the widescreen models that featured it.

Thanks for the review - ones like yours are crucial to many people's buying decisions, including mine.

Shame to hear about the Google junk - I've actually grown an aversion to many of their programs recently. That makes me sad. I'll also miss the parallel port (I'm like that).

Maybe I'm just afraid of change.

I'm considering more and more a T43 over a T60, sheerly for all the little differences. Someone should convince me otherwise without using the word 'performance', so I can give them a bucket of eCookies!

Growly, FWIW, My T60 is worlds better built than both my T40 and T23 in regards to chassis flex, due to the internal roll cage they have now.

My T60 feels like the most solid laptop I have ever had (T23, X31, T40) and I love it. Mine (or my dads) have very, very little flex on the top part (which was there on the T4x too..) and none from pushing the power button.

edit: i just read your little type. I would take a T60 over a T43 any day of the week. Its more solid (yes, it is. The chassis flex on the palm rest is *gone* with the T60, it was very much there on the T4x). The Hinges are even more sturdy than on the T43. The machine has better regulated cooling system. It supports SATA HDD's, so you have more room for upgrades in the future. It supports the native serial port/parallel port ultrabay device. It has an extra USB port. It has a wireless switch (which I like better than the software version and mine is not clunky at all). It will get better battery life (lets face it, the i915PM was a disaster of a chipset compared to the i855 and i945)... and finally, performance. Not only with a dual core chip blow the socks off a Pentium M, but the Core 2 Duo will kill the Pentium M Mhz for Mhz and it has higher clock speeds. Hmm, two cores, clocked higher, that get more performance per Mhz and the same power rating? Hell yes I'll take that. Not to mention the video adapters are better, the chipset is better, the wireless is better... etc.

Buying a T43 now would be shooting yourself in the foot.

I think the design of T43 is fundamentally flawed.
All the thinkpad I have owned, T43 is by far the most problematic in my opinion.
The suppose big improvement of T43 compare to the older T4x series, were 533FSB, SATA & DDR2/Dual Channel.
However, the excess heat produced by the 533FSB chipset and cpu is more than what the old thermal design can handle.
Therefore IBM used a new fan model that's a lot louder than other T4x series.
Not to mention the SATA to PATA problem that plagues so many users here.

T60 is a completely new design, and it's a really solid build.
The new thermal solution for T60 makes it almost as quiet as T42 and can handle 7200RPM drive with ease

justthinking wrote:I think the design of T43 is fundamentally flawed.

T60 is a completely new design, and it's a really solid build.
The new thermal solution for T60 makes it almost as quiet as T42 and can handle 7200RPM drive with ease

And so can my T42 and my X32 (as did my X31 before my X32).

BFD

Exactly, that's why I think T43 is a flawed product.
Even with 5400RPM drive, T43 has a problem with heat coming from chipset/cpu/gpu, if you add 7200rpm drives, then the fan would be even worse.
That's why TP Fan Control was created to partially solve the problem.
However, even with TP Fan Control, T43 is still the loudest of thinkpads and there are other issues too.
Like the every 4.8sec fan pulsing problem and the SATA/PATA problem

No, the design of the T43 isn't fundamentally flawed; I really wish people would do some real thinking before spouting stuff out. There are quite a few T43s that do just fine, are silent, and have absolutely no heat problems. If the T43 is a fundamentally flawed design, then so are most of the T4X Series Thinkpads....I don't think so.

yanster wrote:The Windows key is finally there -- one my gripes with the T42.

I too like the Windows key and am glad that my X60s has one. With it I can start many programs in less than 400 msec!

yanster wrote:there is a little wireless toggle switch below the keyboard that wiggles and clunks around.

Another similarity between your T60p and my X60s. The first time I used that switch, I couldn't believe how crappy it was.

yanster wrote:There is also some flex in the plastic above the keyboard.

Yet another problem that my X60s also has! I wonder how common it is. None of the ~20 older Thinkpads (T43, X40 and earlier) I have owned had this problem.

christopher_wolf wrote:If the T43 is a fundamentally flawed design, then so are most of the T4X Series Thinkpads

Why? Do T40 - T42 have the exact same design?

yanster wrote:there is a little wireless toggle switch below the keyboard that wiggles and clunks around.

I do not like that either. I hope Lenovo does not ruin the thinkpad brand more.

Also, the keyboard is very crappy. I cannot complain more. Too noisy and too stiff. I wish they use the same design as from X24 or X31.

christopher_wolf wrote:No, the design of the T43 isn't fundamentally flawed; I really wish people would do some real thinking before spouting stuff out. There are quite a few T43s that do just fine, are silent, and have absolutely no heat problems. If the T43 is a fundamentally flawed design, then so are most of the T4X Series Thinkpads....I don't think so.

No, the problem is that the design for T40 which was then used on T41 and T42 can not handle the amount of heat generated by T43.
That's why T43 is fundamentally flawed. What IBM should have done is re-design the thermal solution for T43.

bigtiger wrote:Also, the keyboard is very crappy. I cannot complain more. Too noisy and too stiff.

I don't find my X60s keyboard noisy or stiff, but do wish some of the keys in the bottom row were bigger. This could be accomplished by reducing the width of the spacebar and/or doing away with the menu key, which is redundant because the "Alt" key does pretty much the same thing.

justthinking wrote:Exactly, that's why I think T43 is a flawed product.
Even with 5400RPM drive, T43 has a problem with heat coming from chipset/cpu/gpu, if you add 7200rpm drives, then the fan would be even worse.
That's why TP Fan Control was created to partially solve the problem.
However, even with TP Fan Control, T43 is still the loudest of thinkpads and there are other issues too.
Like the every 4.8sec fan pulsing problem and the SATA/PATA problem

NOT exactly. The Hitachi 7200 rpm drives don't run hotter than run of the mill 5400rpm drives. This makes your argument specious