Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

Message

seeplus · #31 Post by **seeplus** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:31 am

They're listing them as "NEW" for $two eighty nine.

I'm getting one :) Does anyone with experience know if replacing the LCD panel with an ebay unit (with an IBM part #) would effect my warranty?

GeorgeWang · #32 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:00 pm

Hi Seeplus,

Thanks for the information, I did not notice it before. How about their dead pixels policy?

So you cannot stand the sandy look of your LCD anymore? or just want one with higher resolution?

I think it may void your warranty, but you can put the original one back if you need any warranty service.

Please let me know how it goes.

Thanks!

crisper · #33 Post by **crisper** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:15 pm

I've had my new T60 15" Flexview for a few days now. Maybe I'm just not used to, but it doesn't seem (to me) to have the same clarity as my T42 15" w/ ID Tech SXGA+. For example, photos seem grainy and distorted. It almost bothers my eyes to look at it. Reducing the contrast helps a little. The ID tech I got excited about; this one not so much. Has anybody found an another adjustment that helps?

I'm not sure how I feel about the new top lid yet.

The machine is certainly more responsive than the T42, as to be expected, but overall I'm still not sold on it yet.

Puppy · #34 Post by **Puppy** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:28 am

crisper wrote:I've had my new T60 15" Flexview for a few days now. Maybe I'm just not used to, but it doesn't seem (to me) to have the same clarity as my T42 15" w/ ID Tech SXGA+. For example, photos seem grainy and distorted.

Since you have chance to compare them side by side can you tell whether the new one (not the IDTech) looks more sharp ? The best is to compare it viewing text without any ClearType.

I got 20" UXGA LCD monitor with LG A-TW-IPS panel which is also grainy. On the other hand, it seems to be more sharp and more anti-reflective than the 15" FlexView IDTech. Another thing I've noticed is that the IDTech probably can not display full color palette (262k colors only ?) which confirms the IDTech panels matrix as well.

BTW After two weeks of using it I barely notice its grainess from decent viewing distance.

crisper · #35 Post by **crisper** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:19 am

Puppy wrote:[Since you have chance to compare them side by side can you tell whether the new one (not the IDTech) looks more sharp ? The best is to compare it viewing text without any ClearType.

Unfortunately the display on my T42 died a couple of weeks ago, giving me an opportunity to get a new T60 (my machine, but the office picked it up). Truthfully I'm comparing the displays based on memory. More significantly, I can't how I may have configured my display on my T42 two years ago to achieve the look I had before it died (gamma, brightness, contrast, even dpi). So I'm probably being unfair to the LG display, but out of the box I have a hard time looking at black text on white background. Also, I like cleartype, but haven't much luck so far configuring it on the LG to my liking. Again, it's just preference, but the text always looks distorted. Overall it's not the graininess that bothers me as much as what appears to be distortion.

I'm going to use an external monitor with my T42 to get some files off of it before sending it in for repair (hopefully returning with the ID Tech). Does anybody know if there is a way to get my display settings off of my old system so I can configure the T60 likewise to do an apple to apples comparison.

oghowie · #36 Post by **oghowie** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:49 pm

My wife just got a T60p with the 15inch Flexview and out of the box I noticed the screen was not as good as my T43. There is a definite graininess to the screen that is noticeable when I use her laptop. Even the colors seem off. But I guess all the new monitors have this problem now?

SSK · #37 Post by **SSK** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:50 pm

Can someone take a picture of his Flexview Display?
OK I understand, that it is difficult to "see" what the grainy effect is (only from a pic), but i want to try it

In 1-2 weeks, i get my new t60p, so...

Thanks a lot!

Selim

seeplus · #38 Post by **seeplus** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:57 pm

So you cannot stand the sandy look of your LCD anymore? or just want one with higher resolution? Smile

I think it may void your warranty, but you can put the original one back if you need any warranty service.

I don't mind the look of the panel; I love it. More pixels are always better, though, and as such I was considering a swap.

I'm waiting for my Eye One Display 2 to arrive so I can color match the t60p to my external IPS display, the results of which may affect my decision..

SSK · #39 Post by **SSK** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:59 pm

I worked on my last T60p with a UXGA Display, is the difference so big? I mean in the point of resolution? ok it is a "little" bigger, but whats about the sharpness of the screen?

Thanks for replies!

Puppy · #40 Post by **Puppy** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:31 pm

In any case, there should be a way to speak to Lenovo about this issue

. Everything seems to be connected to LG/Philips x-IPS panels because it is being discussed in LCD monitor forums (using their panels) as well. I wouldn't say that LG is "bad" while IDTech is "good" because I can see some issues with the IDTech panel comparing them side-by-side. On the other the number of people who can not stand the grainy coating is not marginal.

Troels · #41 Post by **Troels** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:28 pm

crisper wrote: Unfortunately the display on my T42 died a couple of weeks ago, [...]
I'm going to use an external monitor with my T42 to get some files off of it before sending it in for repair (hopefully returning with the ID Tech). Does anybody know if there is a way to get my display settings off of my old system so I can configure the T60 likewise to do an apple to apples comparison.

Hi, what happened to the lcd? Is it just the backlight, did it crack, or does the machine not work any longer?

Hope you get it repaired, although the availability of IDtech panels seems questionable... I mean - it was an old joint venture between IBM/CMO, so i'll bet Lenovo would get a nice discount for buying IDtechs, even for T60s compared to LG/Philips, BOE. Not saying it's better, but it seems something went wrong.

crisper · #42 Post by **crisper** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:56 pm

Troels wrote: Hi, what happened to the lcd? Is it just the backlight, did it crack, or does the machine not work any longer?

The backlight kept going out, but I could still see the display if I looked closely. Eventually it wouldn't light at all. I replaced the inverter, but to no avail. That would almost certainly point to the CFL. However, I had the fan replaced at one point (should have done it myself, but that's another discussion) and I noticed that the piece that fits into the bezel that houses the video cable wasn't installed quite correctly, and it looks like one of the traces on the cable is totally exposed. That doesn't say "backlight" to me, but who knows?

If it's the CFL, I would be tempted to try to replace the bulb, but that certainly would void the warranty. I'd love to be able to keep the ID Tech in that machine, but it's probably not going to happen.

At any rate, it seems that if I look "down" on the Samsung the graininess isn't as bad. Strangely, it seems like this display produces for me a sort of tunnel-vision effect, where the periphery is darker than the direct view in greater contrast than other LCDs I've used, maybe as a side-effect of the wide viewing angle. The effect almost gives me vertigo, but I'm getting used to it. It's just... sparkles.

Note that I realize this is all subjective, especially since I can't directly compare it to the ID Tech right now, but my overall feeling is the display in my T60 is not as good as the one in my T42. FWIW

z_24 · #43 Post by **z_24** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:00 pm

I'm currently deciding a 15" ISP or 14.1". Reading of all posts above, it seems to me that 15" ISP screen is no longer worth the extra buck. Can someone PLEASE post a picture for a comparison. I can't find any store that has T60 with 15"ISP in Toronto

.

GeorgeWang · #44 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:44 am

seeplus wrote: I don't mind the look of the panel; I love it. More pixels are always better, though, and as such I was considering a swap.

I'm waiting for my Eye One Display 2 to arrive so I can color match the t60p to my external IPS display, the results of which may affect my decision..

Thanks for the clarification. Please let us know if you decide to pull the trigger.

I'd like to spend some money to have the LCD fixed, even risk to void the warranty, but I want to check out the quality of the UXGA panel or get an idea about the improvment from who own both LCDs.

GeorgeWang · #45 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:55 am

z_24 wrote:I'm currently deciding a 15" ISP or 14.1". Reading of all posts above, it seems to me that 15" ISP screen is no longer worth the extra buck. Can someone PLEASE post a picture for a comparison. I can't find any store that has T60 with 15"ISP in Toronto .

I don't think a picture can reveal the problem.
To me, white background on the 14.1" sxga+ is much cleaner, maybe the cleanest panel I have ever seen on a Laptop.

The 15" IPS does have better view angle and a warm looking, red is redder, green is greener, relatively blue is not as strong as other LCD panel.

If you use a high quality LCD monitor right not, you'd better go with the 14", especially if you work with black text on a white background most time.

crisper · #46 Post by **crisper** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:50 pm

GeorgeWang wrote: To me, white background on the 14.1" sxga+ is much cleaner, maybe the cleanest panel I have ever seen on a Laptop.

George, you wrote earlier in the thread that you were able to check out the 14.1" SXGA+. Where and how? Did you end up returning your 15" Flexview for a 14.1" or did you see it in a store somewhere? I ask because I'm weighing my options on what to do. Normally I wouldn't care about this that much, but I specifically went to the 15" for the IPS, otherwise I wanted the portability of the 14.1" since I'm going to be traveling for work more often.

GeorgeWang · #47 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:38 pm

crisper wrote: George, you wrote earlier in the thread that you were able to check out the 14.1" SXGA+. Where and how?

One of my friends ordered one for her kid in college by the end of lenovo holiday sale, I got a chance to check it out. It makes me harder to justify the $300+ extra for the 15" flexview.

crisper wrote: Did you end up returning your 15" Flexview for a 14.1" or did you see it in a store somewhere? I ask because I'm weighing my options on what to do. Normally I wouldn't care about this that much, but I specifically went to the 15" for the IPS, otherwise I wanted the portability of the 14.1" since I'm going to be traveling for work more often.

I did not return my 15" Flexview because it passed the 21 days return period already. And the holiday sale was over and I was trying to get it fixed by replacing the panel.

If you do not care much about the view angle, get the 14.1". I'd buy one if there is a good deal and I cannot get the 15" fixed somehow. The 15" is more bulky than the 14.1".

shalliday · #48 Post by **shalliday** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:35 pm

George, you wrote earlier in the thread that you were able to check out the 14.1" SXGA+. Where and how? Did you end up returning your 15" Flexview for a 14.1" or did you see it in a store somewhere? I ask because I'm weighing my options on what to do. Normally I wouldn't care about this that much, but I specifically went to the 15" for the IPS, otherwise I wanted the portability of the 14.1" since I'm going to be traveling for work more often.

I am in the same situation and wondering what you decided. I ordered a T60P with 15" SXGA+ flexview yesterday but after ready about all of the issues with this display, I too am not only wondering whether its worth the extra $300 but if it is even as good as the 14" SXGA+. I too wanted the portability of the 14" but went with the 15" thinking the flexview display was superior. Can anyone shed any light on this. I don't need the flexview from the side viewing option. Just want to get the clearest and best viewing screen available for the thinkpad.

I have this weekend to decide whether I should change my order to the 14" T60P. Appreciate any and all opinions and suggestions on which model has the better viewing screen.

.

WPWoodJr · #49 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:12 am

I'm confused about this talk of the "poor" LG Flexview display. I've compared it to several other displays and its the clear winner in terms of brightness, viewing angle, and color response - see:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

Troels · #50 Post by **Troels** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:13 am

WPWoodJr wrote:I'm confused about this talk of the "poor" LG Flexview display. I've compared it to several other displays and its the clear winner in terms of brightness, viewing angle, and color response - see:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

That's why many still classify this as a product variation, and it would be so great if someone could take some pics/high resolution videos of this issue in order to let other people identify if they have the same issue. This could make this a general issue about the LG/Philips IPS screen.

The color fidelity apparently is somewhat off compared to the T42P UXGA.

hoya · #51 Post by **hoya** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:49 am

Troels wrote: That's why many still classify this as a product variation, and it would be so great if someone could take some pics/high resolution videos of this issue in order to let other people identify if they have the same issue. This could make this a general issue about the LG/Philips IPS screen.

The color fidelity apparently is somewhat off compared to the T42P UXGA.

it's very difficult to get a picture of the FlexView display that shows the flaws. in fact, most of the pictures i took make the LG Flexview appear superior (which in many respects it is):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11221256@N00/46932642/

I can positively attest that product variation is huge with LCD panels. Hydis typically made the best 14.1" SXGA+ panel but recently Samsung's have been much better. on that note, I would be very curious to see a recent LG FlexView since it could very well be far superior to the grainy one I tried on a T4x series.

WPWoodJr · #52 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:51 am

Troels wrote: That's why many still classify this as a product variation, and it would be so great if someone could take some pics/high resolution videos of this issue in order to let other people identify if they have the same issue. This could make this a general issue about the LG/Philips IPS screen.

The color fidelity apparently is somewhat off compared to the T42P UXGA.

What issue are you speaking of?

I've had two LG Flexviews in, one for evaluation and one that I bought. The only variation I detected was the one I bought was just slightly more reddish and it was a little brighter. But both were gorgeous displays. In terms of color response, I have the T42p UXGA and I can tell you that there is no comparison. The LG T60 Flexview has beautiful saturated color compared to the T42p, and it is brighter too.

Here is a photo of the ID Tech 15" UXGA, LG 15" SXGA+, Hydis 14.1" SXGA+. You can clearly see the improved color response of the LG panel in the middle.

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... 04186.html

hoya · #53 Post by **hoya** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:57 am

my chief complaint with the LG Flexview was the 'sparkle' effect which some refer to as a 'grainy' display. the new apple macbook pro's all suffer from the exact same problem. some people (like me) are sensitive to it while others are not.

i completely agree the color reproduction was superior on the LG - blacks were blacker and pictures just looked much better overall.

WPWoodJr · #54 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:02 am

I wish someone could explain what they mean by "grainy" and "sparkle". I will try and upload a picture of my LG display from close-up to see if we can discuss it.

Troels · #55 Post by **Troels** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:21 pm

Hoya,
When you say that your LG also had sparkle/grain, was this on a T43 - i.e. the one you took screen comparison shots of?

WPWoodJr · #56 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:19 pm

OK, you can download a closeup of part of my LG / Philips 15" Flexview T60p screen here:
http://deming.us/tibetpics/Bill/IMG_1697.JPG

Be sure to view this at full resolution otherwise you will see moire patterns.

Can you see the sparkle/grainy effect? I cannot.

WPWoodJr · #57 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:47 pm

GeorgeWang wrote: Since the price of LCD monitor goes down, the quality of LCD panel goes down sharply as well. I also returned 2 DELL 2407WFP because the grainy/sparkle effect at Christmas time. I would not buy and LCD monitor anymore without seeing it in person.

We have the Dell 2407WFP monitor at work and its gorgeous. Do you have extremely sharp eyesight? Maybe you are seeing the actual pixels in the LCD panel and that's what is bothering you. LCD panels have a "screen door" effect caused by the space between pixels (if you look at the screen very closely or have very good eyesight). You can see this in the picture of my display that I posted above.

avesuni · #58 Post by **avesuni** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:28 pm

shalliday wrote:
George, you wrote earlier in the thread that you were able to check out the 14.1" SXGA+. Where and how? Did you end up returning your 15" Flexview for a 14.1" or did you see it in a store somewhere? I ask because I'm weighing my options on what to do. Normally I wouldn't care about this that much, but I specifically went to the 15" for the IPS, otherwise I wanted the portability of the 14.1" since I'm going to be traveling for work more often.
I am in the same situation and wondering what you decided. I ordered a T60P with 15" SXGA+ flexview yesterday but after ready about all of the issues with this display, I too am not only wondering whether its worth the extra $300 but if it is even as good as the 14" SXGA+. I too wanted the portability of the 14" but went with the 15" thinking the flexview display was superior. Can anyone shed any light on this. I don't need the flexview from the side viewing option. Just want to get the clearest and best viewing screen available for the thinkpad.

I have this weekend to decide whether I should change my order to the 14" T60P. Appreciate any and all opinions and suggestions on which model has the better viewing screen.

.

I too can verify the graininess on the recent SXGA flexviews. The color accuracy is still superior to the 14" SXGAs, but if you get lucky with your 14" LCD as I did (I received a Samsung LCD), it beats the flexview in lack of graininess and is certainly nicer to stare for longer hours. My other colleaque has the UXGA flexview, which is in a class of its own (again I don't mean color accuracy), but they don't make them at the moment. The only thing that still puzzles me is the flex of the rear cover, which is a new feature for Thinkpads.

WPWoodJr · #59 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:39 pm

I too can verify the graininess on the recent SXGA flexviews.

I'm starting to think that you guys who are talking about graininess are really talking about the bigger pixel size. The pixels are smaller on the 14.1" SXGA+ and the 15" UXGA than on the 15" SXGA+, so maybe those of you with pretty good eyesight are seeing the pixels.

Alltweed · #60 Post by **Alltweed** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:31 pm

Re: WP's Pic of his T60P Screen

Can;t believe no one has responded to his pic. To my eyes I see nothing but tiny squares in the background thru out entire pic color and the white background. Like tic tac toe. Is this what your talking about?

What ever that is, its very transparent to my eyes? More people post what you see.

Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

Who is online